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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 523
Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 3 Oct 91 Volume 91 : Issue 523
Today's Topics:
Assorted Atari queries
BraSoft to visit WAACE and user groups
Delirious demo (2 msgs)
Help & Hints on setting up GCR please.
Jampack4
lharc 2.01e vs zoo 2.1: some tests
MegaSte compatibility problems
Midi Format Files
Monochrome/Color Emulator for the ST. (2 msgs)
pc-ditto patch
Problem printing
problems with zoo 2.1 recursive
SIM CITY - STe Compatible????
Using gcc/g++ to cross compile for the ST
Working with EPS artwork on an ST
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 30 Sep 91 15:11:00 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.colum
bia.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!ms.maus.de!Patrick_Dubbrow@
arizona.edu (Patrick Dubbrow)
Subject: Assorted Atari queries
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
RJ>1. Does anyone know for sure whether or not FSM GDOS works with existing
RJ> GDOS applications? The official word from Atari (via Atari Explorer)
RJ> magazine says it does, but I am a tad suspect.
But it's true!
So long,
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 09:44:42 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: BraSoft to visit WAACE and user groups
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Sep30.193831.9249@microsoft.com> darekm@microsoft.com
(Darek MIHOCKA) writes:
> ... (on the TT) ST Xformer run at full speed.
Awesome! Great stuff Darek! Pity I'm not Stateside to see this.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 21:12:37 GMT
From: icd.ab.com!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!al885@uunet.uu.net
(Gerard Pinzone)
Subject: Delirious demo
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a previous article, boyd@bind.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) says:
>Hey has anyone gotten the Delirious demo (two .msa files for one disk on
>atari.archive) to work? I have a virgin Mega2 with TOS 1.2. I tried twice.
Hmmmm, I'll have to try that one out!
>By the way, this and two other recently posted demos consist of two .msa files,
>one for tracks 1-40, the other for tracks 41-82. This means that the two
>.msa files map to one double-sided disk. The other two demos are "The
>Dark Side of the Spoon" and "Ooh Crikey Wot a Scorcher." Both are great! If
>you have a color monitor, you should check these out!
In the Dark Side of the Spoon demo, It locks up when I enter those array of
doors. How does your's react?
>Where does Manikin go to school, anyway?!?
MANCHESTER! (no explanation point needed)
BTW, did you try hitting reset? It's yet another demo. Also, on TLB demo,
don't bother trying to find the "Hidden Demo". You would need to hack
the demo to get to it.
Could someone break up the MSA to the two Care Bear demos?! I can't handle
such a big MSA. (Life's a Bitch demo and Whatta Heck Demo)
--
Just on the border of your waking mind, there lies another time, where darkness
and light are one. And as you tread the halls of sanity, you feel so glad to be
unable to go beyond. I have a message from another time..... - ELO: "Prologue
from the "Time" album -- Daicon IV Opening Animation gpinzone@george.poly.ed
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 00:41:19 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!uflorida!maile
r.cc.fsu.edu!bind!boyd@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: Delirious demo
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hey has anyone gotten the Delirious demo (two .msa files for one disk on
atari.archive) to work? I have a virgin Mega2 with TOS 1.2. I tried twice.
By the way, this and two other recently posted demos consist of two .msa files,
one for tracks 1-40, the other for tracks 41-82. This means that the two
.msa files map to one double-sided disk. The other two demos are "The
Dark Side of the Spoon" and "Ooh Crikey Wot a Scorcher." Both are great! If
you have a color monitor, you should check these out!
Where does Manikin go to school, anyway?!?
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Come to your senses professor
FSU Computer Science | Fernberg. You did not transcend
Technical Support Group | the time-space continuum. You
email: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu | got drunk in a topless bar."
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 15:03:44 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
.ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler)
Subject: Help & Hints on setting up GCR please.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Sep30.141929.2027@newcastle.ac.uk> D.C.Halliday@newcastle.ac.uk
(Dave Halliday) writes:
>I have just ordered a Spectra GCR cartridge and am after any
>information or insights anyone can give. I will mainly be using the
>system for writing documents using MS Word. (I assume this will
>work?). Some of the questions I have are:
>
>1) What Version of the Mac system software is recomended and why.
Depends on what you want. 6.0.5 has sound, but 6.0.7 has True Type, I use 6.0.7
with no problems, and would recomend it to "serious users". Less serious users
may want to use 6.0.5 so they can have all those nifty sounds that will drive
everyone else crazy.
>2) What inits etc. do you recomend.
Too many to list, the important ones are (and some are really more than just
INITS & CDEVS, but I'll list them anyway).
1) ATM (Adobe Type Manager, like true type, but faster and better)
2) True Type (need 6.0.7, not as good as ATM, but includes the system fonts,
which is nice)
3) Access PC
4) Init CDEV 3.0
5) Disk Light (you have to buy Norton Utilities)
6) Everything else with Norton
7) Suitcase II
8) Boomerang
9) Windows
10) Windchooser
>>3) What about printout to an Epson FX printer (Normally I will save
>the file as Postcript and print on a laser so quality is not an
>important factor.)
In the manual that came with your GCR there is a listing for GDT Softworks in
Washington DC, call them and get their Epson drivers, they are the best ones.
>4) What other applications work well with GCR. Particually a Object
>Orientated drawing package like EasyDraw on the ST.
Every major application works on the GCR. I recomend UltraPaint, it has a great
set of paint and draw features, that can be combined. Generally, the Mac
drawing software is better than the ST, but you will be limited to B&W (really
8 colors, but you won't see them) when using the GCR.
If you want Postscript, there is Aldus Freehand and Adobe Illustrator (I like
Illustrator better).
>5) Since I am happy with my ST setup I would like to minimise the
>amount of time that I have to resort to the GCR so is there any pogram
>that can write MS Word compatible files? Or is there a converter for
>say Thats Write To MS Word?
As far as I know there is no ST wordprocessor that is compatible with and Mac
word processor except through text files. Why get an ST wordprocessor if you
have the GCR? Wordprocessing is one area in which the Mac really shines, beats
the ST software hands-down. Try Write Now or Nisus, Write Now is faster and
less complex, but Nisus has features to blow your mind (far better than MSWord,
and it does write MSWord files). Really, these are as far above ST word
processors as an ST is above a calculator (a cheap one anyway).
>I am thinking of buying a new ST Wordprocessor (I currently use First
>Word) what do you recommend bearing in mind that I would like it to be
>MS Word compatible.
See Above
>I am aware of MS Write but this program is a bit buggy and does not
>even have a spell cheacker. ( As I think you can see I realy need
>one.)
Everything on the Mac comes with Spelling checkers and generally a Thesaurus.
MSword does not have a good spell-checker OR thesaurus, but it does have them.
Try WriteNow or Nisus (trust me :-). Buy them from somewhere with a good return
policy in case you really hate them...
>6) How do you recomend that I go about backing up my Mac partition.
Get a Mac HD backup program (I think Norton has one, but I don't remember),
they all (at least, all the ones I have tried) work fine as long as you use MAC
format disks and not Spectre format disks.
>7) Any other hints or horror stories you have to offer.
See an article I posted about a week or two ago (I forget the Subject, maybe
"People dumping machines" or something like that). It has a blurb at the end
about Hard Drive speed, read it because it will speed up your MAC boot time by
astronomical proportions.
>Many Thanks.
>
>Dave Halliday.
PS, I have been posting my answers to Spectre questions back to
comp.sys.atari.st because I thought that there may be a lot more users with
similar questions out there...
- David Butler -
- I still, still think the world if falling apart -
For example, "DeRevolutionus Orbium Celestium" (DeRev), by Copernicus, was
published in (approx.) 1543. 500 original copies were printed, 490 of those
have been traced to being still in existance! Try do that with any modern
publication, it would turn to dust.
- Innagadaviddababy -
- What ever happened to free love anyway? - (no more smart comments about
inflation please :-)
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 16:48:48 GMT
From: dhmolde.no!edb02@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Torbjorn Ose)
Subject: Jampack4
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Anyone out there who could send me a lharced and uuencoded copy of
the latest Jampacker (with depack-sources)???
Is Tim Knipe still around??
Thanks in advance,
Torbjorn Ose <edb02@dhmolde.no>
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 15:24:26 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz)
Subject: lharc 2.01e vs zoo 2.1: some tests
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Oct02.023218.28662@infoserver.th-darmstadt.de>
DE7B@br1.hrz.th-darmstadt.de (WALLMANN, GEORG) writes:
>#ARC=zoo
># update
>#UPDATE=aun:
># update with subdirectories
>#DIRUP=aun//
i am sorry, this is NOT zoo's high compression mode. no wonder your results
make zoo look bad (but fast :-). you need the "h" modifier. and they say
i am biased :-). try again....
>I did NOT clean my partition for this test, why should I? I
you should clean it because if you have a partition with small gaps in
it, and the archiver tries to write a big chunk, the head will be foreced
to seek to the next free space on the disk. if you can guarantee the SAME
head motions for all your tests (i.e. no small gaps in the data on disk),
then you don't have to clean the partition. otherwise, this may not be
a fair test. at least when i did things in ramdisk, it was. the time to
hit any bit of memory is the same. this is NOT true with mechanical disks.
>never evacuate any partition just for arcing things up. So
>I think this is more true to life, than any more 'scientific'
fine. i can make a "true to life setup" that makes any archiver look
terrible. like how about if i run zoo in ramdisk and lharc (or arc) on
a floppy? "but hey. that's how _I_ use it. true to life (for me)." your
tests are not that bad, of course, but they are not that good either.
they are not reproducable by others since we cannot ascertain the exact
state of your hard disk. i'll take scientific over hearsay anyday.
>setup. I did the test twice, which didn't change any of
>the timing values significantly and gave every program
>a 'fair' chance on a equally fragmented harddisk. Fragmentation
>is more of an issue when unpacking anyway.
this may be good if you ran the programs in different order. you don't say.
fragmentation is equally important, and maybe even more so on packing since
all the archivers i know make temporary versions of the archive and either
copy or rename it when done. there is probably more i/o during archive
creation, and especially updating, than during unpacking. by not seeing
"significant" differences (whatever that means) you may have just gotten
lucky. or your partition had no gaps in it (again lucky, and hardly true
to life).
also, a partition 10% full will give MUCH different results than a partition
90% full, especially if it is a large partition. mine are all 75% or more
full and 5 out of 7 are at least 12 MB in size. another reason i did not
want to do this in a HD partition...
>ARC 6.02
> Size: 304048 bytes Time: 3:48
>
>ZOO 2.1
> Size: 307207 bytes Time: 4:45
>after issueing a pack command for an additional 2:20
> Size: 307151 bytes
>
>LHARC 2.01d
> Size: 218964 bytes Time: 6:13
i suspect if you use zoo's high compression option you will see similar
results compared to lharc (if my tests are an indicator, i would say zoo,
compared to lharc, would
be about 15% slower, and 0.5% larger in the resulting archive). and to be
fair, this version of lharc is not the most current. we are up to at least
2.01e. that could be harmful to lharc. the only problem i have with arc
(note that most things i post to the net are .arc files) is that there is
no version of 6.02 for unix or VMS (that i know of). otherwise arc 5.21 is
100% acceptable alternative by me, anyway. i'd much rather use arc than lharc.
>(my) conclusions:
> So guess what, good old ARC is by far the fastest,
> LHARC is the tightest,
> And ZOO well the -um- most compatible...
_my_ conclusions: run your test again with zoo ah// ... and report THOSE
results. if you are going to be credible, you must be accurate. if not,
don't bother. and this is not "good old ARC". it is a relatively new
version. i would call arc 5.21 (and older) "good old ARC". however, if
you were refering to the fact that arc has beed around since the beginning
of time, then it is "good old ARC".
if you knew how to run zoo correctly (um!) you would find that zoo is as
slow as lharc, and that it offers 30+% better packing than arc (like lharc).
you would also find that, like lharc, as far as i know, there is no source
code available for arc 6.02. if there is, kindly post it here....
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 14:32:59 GMT
From: dhmolde.no!edb02@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Torbjorn Ose)
Subject: MegaSte compatibility problems
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>Most of my old PD programs do NOT work with my new Mega Ste. I've been
>told that any program that did not strictly follow the Atari programming
>guidelines and 'cheated' will probably not work with the new 2.01 MegaSte
>TOS.
This is not true, most 'old-tos' programs works. The only programs I've found
NOT to work on my 4meg MegaSTe (Tos 2.05) are those who:
1. checks the TOS version number. (They obviously don't know about 2.05)
Example: Laser C. They typically come up with a "Does not work with this
TOS version" message.
2. use undocumented system variables or ROM adresses. Atari may tell you that
these programs 'cheated', but in the old days you HAD to cheat!
Most of these programs didn't work with 1.6 or 1.62 either...
3. look at $fc0000+ for TOS version numbers etc.. The ROM is located at $e00000
on STE machines.
4. try to access memory above $400000. (Like any disk with the Medway Boys II
bootsector). This does of course stop these programs from working on ANY 4
meg machine. Use any decent viruskiller to replace the bootsector.
5. use badly coded sync-protection methods (a few demos, and a couple of
games). Check out the bootsector in the latest Lost Boys demo for an
example of a working sync-protection. (I think it was the Lost Boys demo,
but it could have been any of the latest demos...)
Remove the protection and they usually work.
Except for the shifter-bug I'm very happy with my MegaSTe, and program
compatibility has not been much of a problem.
Cheers,
Torbjorn Ose <edb02@dhmolde.no>
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Oct 91 16:00:26 GMT
From: Dave Wade <DAVEW%D.SSS.CO.UK@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Midi Format Files
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi Folks,
Now I have a copy of Alchimie Jnr. which will read/write MIDI
standard format files can any one point me to a source fo such
things.
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| VM Sysprogs do it virtually all of the time !!!!! |
| Reply To:- |
| Janet:- DAVEW@UK.CO.SSS.D |
| Bitnet:-DAVEW@D.SSS.CO.UK (Also most places outside UK) |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 15:17:31 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!casbah.acn
s.nwu.edu!uicvm.uic.edu!u43610@arizona.edu
Subject: Monochrome/Color Emulator for the ST.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does anyone know if a utility exists which converts color displays to a monochr
ome monitor? I have software that I'd like to run on my monochrome Atari, and
would rather not dish out the money for a Color monitor.. If anyone knows whe
re I can get one FTP?
You reply is appreciated.
-Ken.
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 16:51:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p
itt.edu!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: Monochrome/Color Emulator for the ST.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <91275.101731U43610@uicvm.uic.edu> U43610@uicvm.uic.edu writes:
>Does anyone know if a utility exists which converts color displays to a monochr
>ome monitor? I have software that I'd like to run on my monochrome Atari, and
> would rather not dish out the money for a Color monitor.. If anyone knows whe
>re I can get one FTP?
>You reply is appreciated.
>-Ken.
Maybe try a program called "BIGCOLOR" (at atari.archive.umich.edu). Not
sure which exact directory though...
Robert J. Anisko
rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 20:50:29 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!udel!haven.umd.edu!cs.wvu.wvnet.edu!cerc.wvu.w
vnet.edu!ms@arizona.edu (Mark Starvaggi)
Subject: pc-ditto patch
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello,
I'm looking for the pc-ditto patch for v3.0 which will let pc-ditto
read the hard drive. Does anyone know which ftp site has the patch? Any help
would be appreciated. Thanks.
Mark Starvaggi
(internet: ms@cerc.wvu.wvnet.edu)
------------------------------
Date: 30 Sep 91 22:12:00 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.utexas.
edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!m.maus.de!Martin_Gaeck
ler@arizona.edu (Martin Gaeckler)
Subject: Problem printing
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
dinsmm @ aix.rpi.edu am Mo, 23.09.91 00:10 in ATARI.ENG
>driver. Every time I try to print out a document, it form feeds a page
>before it starts printing. What's up? And how can I fix this? I tried
Somewhere in your printer driver there is a command forcing the FORMFEED.
I asume, that you will find this command in the driver entry 1F (horizontal
initialization) of 20 (vertical initialization). Delete the command byte C
(FormFeed) from these entries and compile the driver again. If you didn't
found that command byte look for other entries with that command byte and
delete it. But beware: The driver entry 25 needs the form feed command.
(All numbers in HEX)
Hope this helps.
Greetings from munich
Martin
------------------------------
Date: 1 Oct 91 23:13:41 GMT
From: imagen!atari!kbad@sun.com (Ken Badertscher)
Subject: problems with zoo 2.1 recursive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
micro@imada.ou.dk (Klaus Pedersen) writes:
|Ahh, the "a//" is atari only, and only on some atari versions??
|That explains :
| "zoo ah// ..."
| "ZOO: FATAL: option / illegal"
|at home and here on the suns...
That's because on systems other than TOS, you can do the following:
find . -print | zoo ahI zooname
(actually, you can do that in some shells under TOS even ;)
I'm glad for the Atari a// extension, makes things easier on
users operating Zoo from the desktop.
--
||| Ken Badertscher (ames!atari!kbad)
||| Atari Corp. System Software Engine
/ | \ #include <disclaimer>
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 14:38:07 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!trwind!venice!sleepy!jharres@arizona.edu
Subject: SIM CITY - STe Compatible????
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I recently asked if anyone has SIM CITY for sale. However, I should have also
asked if it will run on an STe. Does it?
Jim Harres jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 21:59:45 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov!hyc@a
rizona.edu (Howard Chu)
Subject: Using gcc/g++ to cross compile for the ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <8895@squire.cme.nist.gov> chang@lurch.cme.nist.gov (Forrest Chang)
writes:
> Am I write in assuming that if I get the source of the gnu-ST
>(sounds kinda nifty, I wonder if RMS would go for it) compilers, build
>them on my sparc, that I can cross compile code for the ST by
>specifying "-target ST" or whatever target it would be.
Not quite as simple as a "-target" switch; you need to build the complete
suite of programs.
>
> Has anyone else done this? Can I patch our existing compiler,
>or do I have to rebuild the whole compiler (I haven't really looked
>that deep into it yet).
You need the entire compiler, as well as GAS, the GNU assembler.
It would be nice to just configure the compiler for a number of
targets and select on the command line which target to generate
for. The gcc driver itself could be changed this way pretty easily,
but because of the way machine descriptions are handled it would be
kind of tough to make the code generation phases work this way.
>
> Also, where can I find unix sources for zoo, or does gnu-ST
>exist in tar format somewhere
I'd like Unix zoo 2.1 source too, been too lazy to go looking myself.
I am currently running gcc 1.40 on a sparc machine, SunOS 4.1, cross
compiling to my ST. You need to have the sparc version of gcc first
to compile the ST cross version. Then you need the cross version of gas
to actually put out ST object files. You can get the complete suite of
utilities from atari.archive.umich.edu - library, linker, includes, etc.
I'm a little hazy on the MiNT support in the current version of gcc.
It causes the mint libraries to be loaded before the regular libraries,
but the mint library docs say "use this instead of the regular gnu
libraries." Some agreement/clarification would be nice.
--
-- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
------------------------------
Date: 2 Oct 91 12:21:01 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard
Covert)
Subject: Working with EPS artwork on an ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I just got some mac clipart that is in Macintosh EPS (encapsulated
PostScript) format. Are there any drawing programs, or DTP, which
can handle these clip arts? I have the outlines of each of the
United States and would like to use them in some letter (maps from
my current home to relatives, stuff like that).
I have PageStream 2.1 but haven't tried EPS with it yet.
Can you add lines on top of EPS imported into Pgs 2.1?
Does PgS2.1 allow you to view EPS on the screen?
If not PgS then what?
I guess I could look for a Mac program (which runs under the Spectre GCR)
and do the work in Mac, but I wanted to see if it could be done in the ST.
--
Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org
CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
