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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 628
Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 30 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 628
Today's Topics:
bad CRC in SIMMFIX.PRG?
DBase III+ clones ?
Dfree() problem solved
Disk reading trouble
EEPROM idea? Whats wrong with it? (2 msgs)
Flavours of ST
FORSALE: atari 1030 modem
hardrive
How is Atari doing in Europe now?
How to use multiple resource (.src) files in a program?
Looking for a4widr.sty file
MiNT 0.91
Mint boots Gem from wrong drive
Multitasking of Desk Accs and apps: Question
Testing
Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product (2 msgs)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 09:21:06 GMT
From: psinntp!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Marco.Fris@uunet.uu.net (Marco Fris)
Subject: bad CRC in SIMMFIX.PRG?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <17 Nov 91 12:07:46>, Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz
(2:320/100.1) writes:
> Well the best thing would be to allways use LZH201H, then you would
> not get these kind of problems...Note: SIMMFIX2 is now the latest
> version, but it also contains version 1..
I use lzh201I, but from Germany I already saw a 201L reported ...
- Marco -
--- And now ... number one ... The Larch.
Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org
or Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.linn.gna.tfd.com
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 16:31:40 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!donau!dutecai.et.tudelft.nl!kemna@uunet.uu.net (;Leon Kemna)
Subject: DBase III+ clones ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
bihack@cs.few.eur.nl (Floris J. Hack) writes:
>In the near future I may have to do some extensive programming
>with DBase III+. At the moment I am using the (german)
>DBase III+ clone STandard Base version 2.1, dated 1987, from
>Format Software.
>Are there also any other DBase III+ clones available for
>the Atari ST ?
YES. A package called dBMan. I don't know what the currecnt version is.
>Any experience with one of them ?
YES. It is about 95% compatible, as far as I can tell of an older v4.
There are some naming differences, for instance, but they result
from TOS not being MSDOS.
I believe it is the only one of it's kind for the Atari.
>Thanks
You're welcome,
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
P.A. Donker Faculty of Architecture University of Technology Delft
The Netherlands
EMail kemna@duteca.et.tudelft.nl Europe
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 08:42:32 GMT
From: psuvax1!hsdndev!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!harryk@rutgers.rutgers.edu (Harry
Karayiannis)
Subject: Dfree() problem solved
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
First of all I have to apologize for blaming Mark Williams' startup module for
accessories... it works just fine. The problem was that I was loading my
accessory from CHAMELEON.ACC which comes with Gemini... somehow it screws up
Dfree() when the latter is called on drive B:.
I loaded the accessory in the standard way (from the boot partition) and
Dfree() worked fine.
Also I would like to thank the two people who replied to my original message
(thanx Steve & Michel)
=============================================================================
Author of ATZENTA2 Harry Karayiannis ________E-Mail________
15 N.Beacon, #316 Boston Univ. |INTERnet:
** || ATARI ** Allston, MA 02134 Computer Sc. | harryk@bucsf.bu.edu
** /||\ MegaST ** U.S.A. |BITnet:
======================================================| cscrzcc@buacca.bu.edu
----------------------
------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 91 11:26:56 GMT
From: psinntp!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Marco.Fris@uunet.uu.net (Marco Fris)
Subject: Disk reading trouble
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <15 Nov 91 03:35:28>, mrodrigu@polyslo.CalPoly.EDU
(2:320/100.1) writes:
> PROBLEM:
> I read a file from a floppy disk and after the file is read
> (say onto a ramdisk) I then remove the disk and replace it
> with a different floppy. Later on I save yet another file
> to the new floppy and in the process I lose the directory
> to the new floppy and all access to the files on the new
> floppy.
>
> Question: What can I do to remedy this problem!
>
> System: 520STfm upgraded to 4Megs. Internal SS drive replaced with DS,
> also have a DS external. TOS 1.0
ST should recognise the fact that the media have been changed. It does so by
both by hardware detection and by comparing the serial numbers floppies get
when formatted.
- Do you have this problem since you replaced the drive? Then you probably
missed a connection, possibly write protect.
- Do you use a program to format, or the desktop. Some formatters allways
write the same serial number, where it should be random. If so,
dump the program, and use Mserial.prg on the floppies you formatted
with
it.
Recovery is hopeless, I fear, because it sounds like the dirs/fats of the
second flop are overwritten with those of the first one.
- Marco -
--- And now ... number one ... The Larch.
Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org
or Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.linn.gna.tfd.com
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 18:18:34 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wupost!corvette.utdallas.edu!tamsun!tam
uts!n160ao@arizona.edu (Mark Lehmann)
Subject: EEPROM idea? Whats wrong with it?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have been reluctant to updage beyond TOS 1.0 or .99 as many programs
report to me. It looks like I would have nearly ruined my mother board
and spend $500 in getting each TOS version when Atari released it.
I am also afraid to get TOS 2.06 because my 1040ST requires a new board.
I already have PC Speed and a JRI SIMM Memory upgrade board.
Is it possible for Atari to sell EEPROMS in their computers. I don't know
what is involved in modifying an EEPROM, but my proposal (probably discussed
a google-plex amount of times) is:
Atari put an expensive EEPROM in the ST with an EEPROM writer.
Every time Atari upgrades TOS (or an OS in ROM) they should sell a
disk that writes to the EEPROM just once to re-create the contents.
If Atari is worried about people not buying TOS and simply borrowing a
friends disk to write their EEPROM, they could make each update
disk look at a serial number on the disk and only install if the
serial number matched the serial number on the disk.
Of course Atari would have to put a 512K to 1Mbyte EEPROM in the ST, but
that would be better to pay for 1 expensive EEPROM than to continuosly upgrade
the mother board. Then I wouldn't have to worry about my memory upgrade and
PC-Speed working after an upgrade.
Please post comments to the USENET. Useful FLAMES are welcome. By the
way, I support Atari and do not mean this to be negative toward Atari.
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 18:49:27 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!
noc.MR.NET!ns!ns!logajan@arizona.edu (John Logajan)
Subject: EEPROM idea? Whats wrong with it?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes:
>Of course Atari would have to put a 512K to 1Mbyte EEPROM in the ST, but
>that would be better to pay for 1 expensive EEPROM than to continuosly upgrade
>the mother board.
I think the biggest production EEPROMS are 128k*8. You'd need two of them
for the current TOS 1.4.
EEPROMS require no special hardware -- no special voltages. So the issue is
only one of component expense and reliability. Since EEPROMS are writeable,
there is a risk that the user could accidently erase his OS.
Cost is the real killer.
--
- John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
- logajan@ns.network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 06:30:37 GMT
From: areyes!admiral!slammy@uunet.uu.net (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Flavours of ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
bailey@newoa.enet.dec.com (newoa::bailey) writes:
>
>
> As a newcomer to the world of Atari St (well I've still to get my
> system!) could someone please translate the various flavours of ST
>
> Reading the various ST books there seems to be
>
> Atari ST
> Atari ST-E
> Atari ST-M
> Atari ST-FM
Ok, well here goes...
ST: Original ST, no internal drive, no RF modulator.
STE: Enhanced ST, 4096 colors, digital stereo sound
STF: ST with internal floppy.
STM: ST with RF modulator.
STFM: ST with (surprise) internal drive and RF modulator.
________________________________________________________________________
"I refuse to prove that I exist," says God, "for proof denies faith, and
without faith I am nothing." "Ah," says Man, "but what about the Babel
fish? It proves that you exist, so therefore you don't. Q.E.D." "Oh
dear," says God, "I hadn't thought of that." And dissapears in a puff of
logic. -- D. Adams, THGTTG
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 22:07:52 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!apple!netcomsv!phyde
aux@arizona.edu (Leroy Smith)
Subject: FORSALE: atari 1030 modem
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
make an offer.
please email, as i am posting for a friend, and do not read this group.
--
LeRoy Smith "I'm so ugly, I bet
phydeaux@netcom.com people throw buns at me!
axlms@asuacvax.bitnet {Er, wait, that's not right!}"
axlms@acvax.inre.asu.edu ---
apple.com!netcom.com!phydeaux Tank Girl
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 11:10:21 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-
state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wsu-cs!vela!sycom!bg258s1421@arizona.edu (Burley
Good)
Subject: hardrive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This letter is to whoever had the 20 meg hardrive for sale: send me mail if
{you still got one for sale.
-- C-UseNet V0.52
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
? HELLO ?
? DON'T TALK TO TECHINAL PLEASE ?
? JUST TALK IN LAMENS TERMS ?
? I'LL WRITE BACK ANY HOW ?
? TAKE IT EASY! MOOSE ?
?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 91 11:27:28 GMT
From: psinntp!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Marco.Fris@uunet.uu.net (Marco Fris)
Subject: How is Atari doing in Europe now?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <01 Nov 91 04:16:37>, aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(2:320/100.1) writes:
> I have also heard that ALL new software for the ST takes advantage of
> the STe features.
First time I heard that. My understanding is that there is hardly anything but
demo's for the STE features, with the notable exception of some sound stuff.
BTW: does anyone on the *nix side of this area actually read this? I _never_
get any replies ...
- Marco -
--- And now ... number one ... The Larch.
Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org
or Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.linn.gna.tfd.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 09:21:32 GMT
From: psinntp!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Marco.Fris@uunet.uu.net (Marco Fris)
Subject: How to use multiple resource (.src) files in a program?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <20 Nov 91 08:32:08>, geert@ccsds.ahold.nl (2:320/100.1)
writes:
> When I thought this could be done by a second rsrc_load,
> I went into some problems. Most of the times the
> second rsrc_load results into four bombs on the screen.
> But it can also be o.k. (how can that be??????).
You'll have to do a rsrc_free before your second load. Yes, that's right,
that means you can only use one of the two at the same time. But why don't you
just merge the two resources? I never heard of a limit one .rsc size.
- Marco -
--- And now ... number one ... The Larch.
Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org
or Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.linn.gna.tfd.com
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 08:56:26 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!mcshh!malihh!pfunk.hanse.de!blackbox@uunet.uu.net (Michael
Kistenmacher)
Subject: Looking for a4widr.sty file
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <1991Nov28.184046.20472@lut.ac.uk>, Mohammad A. Rahin writes:
>
>
>Could someone please send me the a4wide.sty file ? I need that to print the
>profgem.tex file which I've recently downloaded from atari.archive.
>
I heard of that problem just after uploading the prgemtex archive to
atari.archive, so I sent the compiled version too. I don't have any
style-file like that, only a normal a4 style. So, if you still have
problems, you should get the file named 'prgemdvi.lzh' from atari.
archive.
Bye.....Michael
--
/------------------------------------\
| Michael Kistenmacher / blackbox |
| 2000 Hamburg 61 / Schippelsweg 64 |
| West Germany / ++ 49 40 552 37 66 |
\------------------------------------/
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 15:05:59 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!simonk@uunet.uu.net (Simon Kinahan)
Subject: MiNT 0.91
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
2 meg on ram and 2 meg of disk space is easily sufficient. MiNT is
usually supplied with docs which pretty much explain all you need to
know about installation. The necesssary files form atari.archive are all
in the atari/mint directory. The important ones are mint091b.zoo,
mint091s.zoo and mintdoc.zoo, the others are MiNT shells windowing
systems etc.
Simon Kinahan aka simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk
"So Much to do, So Little Time"
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 15:46:02 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!news-s
erver.csri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!julian!uwovax.uwo.ca!7103_262
2@arizona.edu (Eric Smith)
Subject: Mint boots Gem from wrong drive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <oli.691401964@ernie>, oli@math.rwth-aachen.de (Oliver Bonten)
writes:
> simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk (Simon Kinahan) writes:
>> I am not absolutely clear about this but I think you may find that even
>>if you do not boot with MiNT GEM will attempt to boot from C: whichever
>>drive TOS has booted from. That is certainly th eimpression the RDE docs
>>give.
> No, that is definitely not true. If I boot from Drive F: for instance,
> what I do if I have my external HD on, the Auto folder, ACCs and Newdewsk.inf
> are loaded from F:. This worked with G: as well, but if Mint is in the Auto
> folder of G: and Gem booted from under Mint, it boots from C:. This must
> be a bug in Mint.
It's not a bug in MiNT, but rather in the gem.prg program which is used to
start GEM under MiNT. If you start GEM directly from the kernel (i.e. if
there is no init.prg) then it should work correctly.
(The bug in gem.prg is that the environment variable PATH is hard-wired to
C:. This can easily be fixed by recompiling, or by patching the binary of
gem.prg; look for the string PATH=.)
--
Eric R. Smith email:
Dept. of Mathematics eric.smith@uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario 7103_2622@uwovax.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 09:21:20 GMT
From: psinntp!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Marco.Fris@uunet.uu.net (Marco Fris)
Subject: Multitasking of Desk Accs and apps: Question
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <18 Nov 91 20:27:26>, bpat@cs.mcgill.ca (2:320/100.1) writes:
> 2) It should make periodic calls to AES (Usually a EVNT_TIMER with 0
> seconds as parameter) so that it does not take up all the
> processor time. If for some reason it should need ALL the time, then it
> could call on WIND_REDRAW with 1 as parameter. After such a call, no
> other application is allowed to run by GEM. normal control may be
> passed back with WIND_REDRAW again, but with a 2 this time.
I guess you meant WIND_UPDATE here. It doesn't stop all other
applications per se, it just stops everything that wants to do something on
the screen.
- Marco -
--- And now ... number one ... The Larch.
Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org
or Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.linn.gna.tfd.com
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 14:54:10 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!warwick!str-va!strath-cs!scassidy@uunet.uu.net (Steven Cassidy
CS3)
Subject: Testing
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Please Ignore , Just testing!
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 14:37:23 GMT
From:
math.fu-berlin.de!ira.uka.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!rz31.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!ib09@
uunet.uu.net (Thomas Koenig)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9962@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
[a picture of a bowl of petunias comes unbidden into mind]
>4) No Big Name Vendors will support the TT/ASV. Proof of this is the
> fact that Atari can't provide a commerically supported C/C++
> compiler for the ASV. Instead Atari is merely packaging the public
> domain FSF GNU compilers. While these are fine tools, they should
> be classed as "experimental" and aren't commerically supported.
> Do you really think that you can call someone at Atari to get help
[rest deleted]
Gcc an experimental compiler? I've always been under the impression
that, for 'normal' CISC architectures under Unix, gcc is considered on
par with any other C compiler. As far as the possibliity of a "killing
bug" goes: Gcc is being used by very many people on a large variety of
systems, so the chances of 'real killers' ought to be rare. Large - scale
systems, including the NeXT kernel, have been built with gcc; gcc is
usually considered to be more reliable than the native compilers.
The availability of the source means that patching is comparatively easy.
Also, the support you get with commercial compilers isn't so great
after all; you don't get a patched version a week after your bug report,
either.
Oh, before I forget, read the recent announcement of why Motorola now
ships gcc as C compiler for the 55061; if I remember correctly, it
was not because of unreliability or the experimental status of the
compiler :-).
--
Thomas Koenig
ib09@rz.uni-karlsruhe.de, ui0t@dkauni2.bitnet,
ui0t@ibm3090.rz.uni-karlsruhe.dbp.de
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 16:02:15 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!thurlow@arizona.edu (Robert Thurlow)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <9962@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>I contend that Atari's ASV (Atari Sys V UNIX) is a product
>with no future.
>1) The Tt030's native (Atari original equipment) color resolution
> is too coarse to support X Windows. Proof of this fact is that
> Atari requires the user of their monochrome monitor, and does
> not support ASV under color. A monochrome only X windows
> workstation is not a viable commerical product.
That'll sure be big news to NCD, which sells monochrome xterms by the
boatload, and to my company, which has bought a fair few. Why exactly
do you think color is necessary? Do you just like it because it's
prettier?
>3) The TT030 is overpriced. A Base TT0304/40 is about 2 grand. Add
> 1 grand for the monochrome monitor, another grand for more memory (
> can't even use cheap memory 'cause you gotta buy an expensive memory
> board from Atari to add more memory), and another 2 grand for the
> ASV and you are up to 6 grand. And that is for an Atari computer
> whose resale value is pratically NIL. Ever try to sell a used
> Mega ST recently? A glut of those babies on the market now.
Your comments on resale value are well taken, but have you seen what
used '386 machine go for these days? And yet people buy them if they
are the right tool. I'm also amused by your belief that you'd have
to spend $1K for a monochrome monitor and $1K for memory. Just how
fancy were you planning to get in this expenditure? I agree that the
TT030 is a pricey, fringe-market box, but you don't need to go so far
overboard to make this point.
>4) No Big Name Vendors will support the TT/ASV. Proof of this is the
> fact that Atari can't provide a commerically supported C/C++
> compiler for the ASV. Instead Atari is merely packaging the public
> domain FSF GNU compilers. While these are fine tools, they should
> be classed as "experimental" and aren't commerically supported.
> Do you really think that you can call someone at Atari to get help
> when you find a project killing bug in the GNU compilers? I think not.
You must never have used GNU CC, as your comments are misleading.
GNU CC has a very good reputation for compiling correct and _fast_
code. As for bugs, you're usually doomed if you find a new one,
as it usually isn't a quick job to fix the compiler and FedEx a
new copy. I expect quicker turnaround on a Unix kernel bug than
a compiler bug.
>6) ASV won't support TT programs. It is a known fact that the ASV
> package can't run TOS/GEM programs. So, that means exiting UNIX,
> which is no simply task in of iis self, and rebooting into TOS.
> All other systems (SCO UNIX and MAC A/UX) allow their native OS
> programs to run from within their UNIX. But once again Atari
> Corp is too little and too late.
Given the enormous amount of memory you have to give over to each
VPIX session and the restrictions on what will run in that environment,
I don't know that this is valid. VPIX is a nice checklist item for
people concerned about being able to run DOS programs at all, but
it sure isn't something I see a lot of people using.
>so, if you care to argue the viability of the Atari ASV package
>please respond to my six points above. But remember the market place
>is the final judge and if ASV doesn't sell it won't last!! No one
>is going to buy ASV just to play games (and we all know that the
>TT030 is just a fancy games machine !!).
This is probably the most unrealistic statement in your entire
article. The TT030 is either a serious machine or a failure at
being a serious machine because of the expense. Anyone buying
it for games should stop by and let me examine their wallet
closely for a few minutes :-) As a market analyst, you should
make sure you hang onto your day job for a few more years.
I don't know if ASV is going to fly or not; it seems to be a pretty
fringe-market offering, and may only survive in vertical markets
where the TT030 and Unix are a great solution. Despite Atari's
hype, I don't see them as being able to offer a product that is as
well-supported as SCO's offering, and that could kill it. I wonder
if anyone wants a real Unix for an Atari badly enough to pay $2K to
get it, especially with Minix providing a lot of good things on
more mundane Atari STs. People will buy Unix for commodity PClones,
but competition is pushing the price down to nearer $1K now, and
that won't make ASV look too good.
Rob T
--
Rob Thurlow, thurlow@convex.com
Recent poll results show that more Canadians believe that Elvis Presley
is alive than would vote for the current Prime Minister, Brian Mulroney.
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
