Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 626
Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 29 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 626
Today's Topics:
*.lst files? What kind of basic???
Atari ST DEAD ? (5 msgs)
Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
Flavours of ST
IDE HD Controllers?
JPEG for the ST available
Mac comments, actually a response
Mint boots Gem from wrong drive
rumors from Chicago
SC1224 for sale
ST Popularity
Uniterm
VideoText on ST
Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic
cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed
out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages
to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU.
Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to
Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list
instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored.
If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly
from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please
contact the redistributor, not us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 09:10:20 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!noc.MR.
NET!ns!ns!logajan@arizona.edu (John Logajan)
Subject: *.lst files? What kind of basic???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu ( EVENSONG) writes:
>I ran into
>some source code the other day, however for a version of uucico for the
>ST that is written in what appears to be basic and I was wondering if
>anyone knew what it might be, or perhaps if someone could compile my
>modified version for me? The file has a suffix of .lst and has no line
>numbers.
It is most likely written in GFA Basic, a dialect of Basic (and a damn
good one.)
--
- John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
- logajan@ns.network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 09:16:37 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columb
ia.edu!fnboot.fnal.gov!traynor@arizona.edu
Subject: Atari ST Dead ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <2069@equinox.unr.edu>, chan@cs.unr.edu (Kaho Chan) writes:
> Do you feel better now, Mr. R. Smart? Or is it R. U. Smart?
>
> Both machines have their good points and their bad points. If we started
> another flame war about which machine is better or who's machine has a
> better "whatever"... IT WILL NEVER END.
>
> If you don't like ST's then don't bother this newsgroup.
>
> We know what flaws there are and what not...
> I don't want to start saying things like:
> "I hate the Amigas because... It's about
> time they got rid of OS on disk... They suck... Too many guru..."
> BUT I'M ABOVE THAT!
>
> Grow up Mr. Smart... Or R. N. YA SMART ENOUGH?
>
> NOTE: no flames please... (if you don't understand then pretend this
> message is a recursive function (read again and again and again..))
> ##########################################################################
>
> NOTE: E. Lee, I don't want to here it...
>
> chan@mammoth.cs.unr.edu
> Kaho Chan<=============ChanmaN
> HanmA
> AnM
> N
>
> ##########################################################################
Yeah, I'm an Amiga owner and we have equivalent Mac bozos in our newsgroups too.
I think it's a sign of insecurity myself--almost as if people are so insecure
about their own computer that they have to slam others to make themselves feel
good.
I work at FNAL, and the pc of choice is the Mac (bleah!). I don't particularly
like Mac's but I have a Mac emulator nonetheless since some software they
have is particularly useful. Actually, the secondary choice is the Atari ST
and TT. The ST's are useful for terminal emulators, and the TT's are used by
the Theory people here. I have to believe hardware-wise that the Amiga is
superior simply by the coprocessor chips, but there are a lot of things I would
like to see on them, like a built-in SCSI port, and a socket for 68881 that
won't be there for some time. Actually, the new AmigaDOS is a fairly nice
operating system (although it's two years late).
By the way, does anyone have ST-Es out there? What is the difference between
them and a normal ST? Has any major software been written for the ST-E yet?
Mike Traynor
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 13:00:48 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!uni-koeln!ibmvm.rrz.uni-koeln.de!AC036@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <1991Nov8.111112.412@kingston.ac.uk> cs_a206@kingston.ac.uk writes:
> I am supprised that the Atari st has not died for the more
> favourable Amiga 500 series. The atari is such a bad machine
> that I am supprised people buy it !!!
>
> Atari St's are great for the following functions.
> > Door Wedges
> > Sleeping Policemen
> > Toilet Paper Holders
> > A 512K Printer Buffer
> > A Dust Absorber
> > A Source Of Electronics for your HAIRDRYER ?
> > A Sign Of Poverty
> > A Tax Dodger
>
> p.s.
> Q > what is the differance between the ST and the SPECTRUM ?
> A > The midi ports !!!
>
> Should ST's be put in the newsgroup rec.humor instead because they are all
> jokes.
Oh lord, please help me to keep my big mouth shut,
until I know, what I am talking about.
Berthold Cogel
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 14:10:05 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!fnb
oot.fnal.gov!traynor@arizona.edu
Subject: Atari ST Dead?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
By the way, my previous posting was not slamming y'all's reply to the Amigoid,
but the Amigoid himself. I just re-read the thing and it may be ambiguous on
that point. Apologies.
Mike Traynor
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 14:36:58 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!hydra!kreeta!luoto@uunet.uu.net (Markku Luoto)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hey now,
Is this the same person that requested information on "how to learn read
& write" in alt.illiterate.retarded.dump some days ago ?
-> It seems that I never get used to the sh*t I might find here ?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>> " I'm completely operational & all my cicuits are functioning <<<<<<
>>>>>> correctly...correc...corr...co...-! " : HAl9000 <<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 05:27:29 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-s
tate.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!tellab5!chinet!saj@arizona.edu (Stephen
Jacobs)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Please don't let this thread grow!! I'm ashamed of replying myself, but at
least I'm keeping it brief. Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 14:21:27 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jppg9764@ar
izona.edu (John Paul Pietrzak)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Since I have access to the local NeXT price list at UIUC, I can offer some
additional facts:
In article <1991Nov29.074441.15954@cis.ohio-state.edu>
tbrown@tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu (ted croft brown) writes:
>
>In the US at least, the NeXT looks like a great deal. About $5K will get
>you an 040, a 2 bit 17" greyscale monitor, 20M RAM and 600Mg HD, and scads of
>software. But those are student prices buying Memory and Hard Drive from
>Second sources.
Yes, you can't quite get such a good system directly from NeXT. The closest
thing, in terms of a NeXTstation directly from the company, is $5948 for
16 megs RAM and 400 meg HD. An equivalent NeXTcube is $2000 more. NeXT's
most competitive pricing occurs with the base NeXTstation, which has the '040,
8 megs of RAM and a 105 meg HD, at $3498. Although this would normally be a
serious contender to the market which Atari seems to be aiming for, the 105
meg HD severely constrains the applications which you can run, as the operating
system will take up much of that space. You (apparently) almost have to
purchase another 100-200 megs of HD storage in order to run it comfortably as
a stand-alone unit. (Now, connected to a network is another matter... :)
Also, the NeXTstation has no slots, presumably as it is meant mainly for
being part of a network (You connect all your devices to the server, and
have the nodes of the network send their data to it).
(Disclaimer-- These are student discount prices at UIUC, I cannot guarantee
that they bear any relationship to the world at large.)
Personally, I would love to get a NeXTcube, with 16 megs of RAM and 400 meg HD;
unfortunately, this setup costs $8048 from NeXT, and I calculate that it would
take me approximately 2.25 years at my current level of income, penny pinching
all the way, in order to afford that kind of system. By then, I assume I will
want something different...
I think Atari can compete successfully with people who prefer an even
lower-priced Unix workstation than NeXT offers.o
John "Sorry to digress" Pietrzak
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 15:53:55 GMT
From: uvm-gen!kira!pegram@uunet.uu.net (Robert B. Pegram)
Subject: Flavours of ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
From article <691329105.0@tdkt.kksys>, by Chuck.Grimsby@tdkt.kksys.com (Chuck
Grimsby):
>
> In a message of <Nov 25 12:17>, -Unknown- (1:282/31) writes:
> >From: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk
> >Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
> >Reply-To: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk (Mathew Lodge)
>
> >In article <1991Nov24.194950.17984@rdg.dec.com> bailey@newoa.enet.dec.com
> >(newoa::bailey) writes:
>>As a newcomer to the world of Atari St (well I've still to get my
>>system!) could someone please translate the various flavours of ST
>>
>>Reading the various ST books there seems to be
>>
>>Atari ST
>
> >The original ST, with "house-brick" external power supply. No TV
> >modulator.
>
>>Atari ST-E
>
> >Enhanced ST, with Blitter as standard, plus new 4096 colour palette,
> >hardware scrolling, stereo DMA sound, TOS 1.6x, a few more joystick ports
> >and a light pen interface.
>
>>Atari ST-M
>
> >The original ST plus TV modulator.
>
>>Atari ST-FM
>
> >Original ST plus TV modulator, internal floppy drive and internal power
> >supply. Early STFMs had single sided drives, later ones double sided.
>
> Nice list, 'cept that the original ST's had TV Modulators in them. They went
> out with the ST-F's, which were the next version after the original ST came
> out.
>
>
> * Origin: FlightLine PointNet (1:282/47.1)
Not all of them, really early ones didn't have a modulator in them, I
know, I just resurected my old 520.
Bob Pegram
--
pegram@uvm.edu
or
..!uvm-gen!pegram
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 15:31:50 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!stl!dsbc!ozz!jas@uunet.uu.net (Jason Morris)
Subject: IDE HD Controllers?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I know that you can buy a SCSI HD controller separately from the disks, but
can you get an IDE controller for the ST. I'm toying with the idea of a DIY HD
on the cheap, and those IDE disks are cheaper than SCSI.
Jason.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Jason Morris jas@uk.co.icl.oasis (0344) 424842 ext 2662 |
| ICL Computers Ltd, BRA01, Lovelace Rd, Bracknell, Berks, England. |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 00:57:23 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!nic.csu.net!csun.edu!kithrup!hoptoad!we
t!ekrimen@arizona.edu (Ed Krimen)
Subject: JPEG for the ST available
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <o7FFBB1w164w@cellar.org> darling@cellar.org (Thomas Darling) writes:
>millert@cs.Colorado.EDU (Todd C. Miller) writes:
>
>> I just uploaded source and binaries for JPEG image compression/decompression
>> to atari.archive.umich.edu -- I built the binaries with gcc 1.40 and the
>> MiNT libraries patchlevel 14.
>
>Nice going, Todd. Now would some kind soul upload it to GEnie?
I'd be GLAD to upload it to GEnie. On one condition, let me know if this
message gets out to the net.
--
||| Ed Krimen
||| ekrimen@wet.UUCP
/ | \ E.KRIMEN (GEnie)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 29 Nov 1991 14:24:15 -0600 (CST)
From: Z_RYMALJL@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU (Larry Rymal)
Subject: Mac comments, actually a response
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
There have been some exchanges here on the net regarding ST/TT
comparisons against various models of the Mac world. Both sides (ST vs. Mac)
have some terrible misconceptions of each other's world and I'd like to address
just a few.
Before I do, be it known that I have been an ST enthusiast since 1985,
believe that the computer (including the TT) can stand on its own, and has
absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. As most others, my main concern with
the Atari line is the ugly method of U.S. marketting, leaving users and
dealers with poor support and upkeep. But, as far as the hardware is concerned,
I cannot fault the Atari computer. I still feel that it (especially the
1040STe)
gives the user the most bang for the buck if the user wants a great general
purpose computer that is fast and has reasonable sound and graphics.
Also, I have my own Macintosh computer, an LC, which is the lowest
cost Mac that includes 16bit color on a 12" RGB monitor, assuming that VRAM
is installed (under $100.00). Straight from the box, it can display
"thousands"
of colors. The LC enjoys excellent market credibility, especially in the
word of education since it can, via an Apple II card (about $150.00), run
Apple II software. Schools which have built up sizeable software for Apple II's
enjoy this box since it is easier for them to phase into newer software with
this machine.
The above is my background and I become somewhat offended when the ST
and the Mac are misrepresented.
I'd like to address only a few of the misconceptions that I have read:
1. 4meg simms..
>...a TT has choices comming REAL soon for memory boards to add
>MUCH more then any of the macs can currently handle..
>(Course in the newest 68040 machines maybe you can use 4meg drams..
>But from the info I saw NONE of the macs currently in production just
>just before the classic came out would handle the 4meg simms chips
>so they were limited to 8 meg without an additional memory card...
4 meg simms are supported on many Macs. The following Macs support 4 meg
simms: SE/30, Mac II, FX, CI, CX, SI, and the LC. Only the SI and the LC
were made after the Classic line. None of the models above require an
"additional memory card...". (sorry about the grammer, but I'm
doing this on-line and the editor is pathetic).. Note that the first five
models mentioned will support up to 32 meg of internal memory, not the 8 meg
limit mentioned. The Mac SI supports 17 meg, and my lowly Mac LC supports
"only" 10 meg. The memory is accessible by merely plugging in the simms
into pre-existing memory slots located on the motherboard, similar to
that of the 1040 ST/e.
2. Mac mail order..
>And any one trying mail order in the mac world will be shut down also.
Not so. Mail order is a big business in the Mac world, ESPECIALLY in the
hardware arena. I have no idea why and how it works, but it does. All models
of Macs can be found in big splashy and full color ads in any Mac magazine,
such as Mac World or Mac User. On the other hand, I have found ST/e's
in advertisements from Toad computers. The prices at Toad are lower than
that of my ST dealer (if he is still in business--last I heard, he still was
having difficulty in getting stock from Atari). So, in this argument, what's
the problem?
Secondly, there are other price ceilings. The education and corporate
market for the Mac are major players. Mac LC's with 12" monitors, keyboard,
and a 4 * 80 configuration can be had for $1800.00 at certain universities
with prices set by Apple. I don't even know the retail price of the LC
setup, but I'd think that this is about half price. On the other hand,
Apple currently has a promotion called "Right Now" for retailers allowing
substantial price cuts netting a price ceiling similar to that of education.
Another price ceiling is for demo units. Apple has a pre-set price for
Macs that have been on the showroom floor. Indeed, if you are willing to
wait, you can sign up for a unit, let it be in use, and then take delivery.
Warranty belongs to you--it is a new machine warranty issued during your
delivery. Example, a Quadra 700 5 * 80 can be had locally for $2300.00
under the demo plan.
3. Apple commercial software prices are high...
This is the old Atari argument that has plagued the ST. Most of us
are used to the 8 bit world when any software could be purchased for under
$50.00. Atari then introduced a sleek and fast computer that put the Mac
to shame. Developers spent time and money producing software that cost
a lot of $$$$ for R&D. The software was then introduced and many STers
hollered "foul", wondering why the high prices. Is it any wonder that U.S.
developers for the ST are hard to find? But wait....!
TimeWorks Publish It Easy can be found for $130.00 for the Mac. PageStream
for the ST costs $179.00. Calamus SL has a price I dare not quote and offers
options that cost $159.00 for Calamus Outline, $65.00 for Calamus Font
Editor.
That's Write for the ST costs $199.00.
Quality software costs money to develop. Yes, there is some software on the
Mac that borders bloodletting, in my opinion. But as a whole, Mac software
and ST software is typically in the same neighborhood. Scan the magazines
and compare similar packages. Yes, a CAD program that took five years to
develop will cost more than some $50.00 something that took six months, so
be fair.
4. The unmentioned argument: credibility
When examining the ST and the Mac, one should also look at the marketting
and crediblity factor of the platform. For the most part, I still feel that
any ST/TT configuration is superior to just about anything that the Mac
can muster. I still feel closer to the ST developers and have known many
since 1985. I still get a "warm fuzzy" when I think "ST". However, in my
area, STs/TTs don't exist with the exeption of my lonely ST. All the dealers
within 100 miles radius of me have closed and my main dealer 200 miles away
does not have product (as of mid October, so things may have changed for the
better).
The Macintosh is leaning up, becoming sleaker and faster, is becoming
cheaper. Apple has a phenomenal support program for educators. Business
support is good and my local university probably has bought 1000 Macs of
varying configurations in the past two years.
Apple software pricing is coming down to earth, no doubt due to the cheaper
Macs and the "computer for the rest of us" is finally seeing "the rest of
us", buying it. I am satisfied with the Mac, especially with my Mac LC.
I am also very happy with my Mega ST. It has been faithful to me for several
years and software for it looks better all the time. We have some marvelous
developers for the ST, of these are the guys at DoubleClick and Dave Small
at Gadgets. Without their products, my machine would be a bore.
I have seen some disappointments, especially WordPerfect ST. I am a beta
tester for the ST and I can tell you... their BBS for ST testing has not
been functional for a good while and beta tester bug reports stopped being
acknowleged, even with a form message, back in April of 1991.
So, in closing (and apologies for the length), examine both computers with
truths, not misconceptions. The Mac information on the net has really been
off-based.
Larry Rymal <Z_RYMALJL@CCSVAX.SFASU.EDU> |Atari ST & Mac Users of East Texas|
Stephen F. Austin State University, Nacogdoches, Texas
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 13:59:40 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!simonk@uunet.uu.net (Simon Kinahan)
Subject: Mint boots Gem from wrong drive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
As I said before I am not absoluteley clear abou this stuff. However
one possibility is that, while I'm sure GEM always boots from C, either
NEOdesk or your HD driver are forceing to boot from the TOS boot drive
and then MiNT is somehow interefereing with this.
Simon Kinahan simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk
"So Much to do, So Little Time"
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 06:10:40 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-s
tate.edu!casbah.acns.nwu.edu!nucsrl!tellab5!chinet!saj@arizona.edu (Stephen
Jacobs)
Subject: rumors from Chicago
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well, not strictly rumors, but stuff to come out of the Chicago Computerfest
that doesn't have product names and release dates attached.
Most of the Atari people wore lapel pins that said "040". The party line was
that it probably meant what you thought it did, but they couldn't comment
further until Spring.
All discussion of programming techniques around the Atari booth sparked
discussions of how they'd work with MultiTOS. Again, no specifics now, but
a rather flat promise that it would be finished in 1992.
The TOS 2.06 upgrade is scheduled to be available "After Christmas", but
chatter suggested that it was running ahead of schedule (my mind fills with
snide remarks at this point....same as you, I'm sure)
By virtue of all the griping I've done about AHDI not cooperating with my
somewhat unusual disk, I was given what amounts to a tentative release version
of the version 5.0 hard disk utilities. Since they're a good deal more
complex than earlier versions, and I didn't get any docs, all I can say for
sure is that they enabled me to format and partition a disk that earlier
versions wouldn't touch. There was also a wisecrack about why release might
be less delayed than is usual for Atari system software: "this is used by
people who WANT it to format their hard disks." And I was specifically told
not to give copies to anyone else, sorry.
The UNIX TT is a bit less vaporous than the above items, but with no retail
price or release date it's not solid either. I just want to say that to my
eye, the performance from a command line was just fine, but there were
delays ranging from noticeable to annoying in the X11 performance. This
seems to put it in a league with fast 80386-s running UNIX.
That should be enough for one note. Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 16:41:04 GMT
From: ulowell!woods.ulowell.edu!coteb@uunet.uu.net (Brian Cote)
Subject: SC1224 for sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
For Sale:
Atari SC1224 color monitor. I haven't used it for about 7 months since I sold
the CPU but had no problems with it right to the day I stopped using it. I am
asking $110 plus shipping on this. If interested, please reply by mail.
Thank you,
Brian Cote
coteb@woods.ulowell.edu
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 18:46:20 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!warwick!kingpol!cs_a206@uunet.uu.net (Richard Smart)
Subject: ST Popularity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Yo ST Users !
Thanks for participating in the column is the ST dead ?
I had an amazing response from the newsgrounp which was picked
randomly to see what itme responces were between other users.
I found the heading ST dead to attract ones attention.
Thanks for participating in my survey. The only thing I can say is
that there are alot of owners of ST still out there.
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 09:02:25 GMT
From: galileo.cc.rochester.edu!news@cs.rochester.edu (Ling Cherd Ho)
Subject: Uniterm
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Thanks
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 18:05:15 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!gatech!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!urmel!me
rry.imsd.rwth-aachen.de!jogl@arizona.edu (Joachim Glaubrecht #Alwd#)
Subject: VideoText on ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
hi,
does anyone out there use a VideoText-Decoder with
the ATARI-ST ?
the german electronic-magazin "mc" has a VT-Decoder
with a RS232 connection.
does anyone build that decoder and has some extra Software
for it (standart software supports only b&w and has
no block-graphics-display).
--
___ o -------------------------------------
/ / ______ ___ ! jogl@tolkien.imsd.rwth-aachen.de !
__/__/_/ __/__/_/ ! Inst. f. Med. Stat. & Doku. (IMSD) !
/_/ /_/ ! Aachen, Germany, Europe, Earth !
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
