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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 624
Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 28 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 624
Today's Topics:
*.lst files? What kind of basic???
Atari's image
Atari ST DEAD ? (6 msgs)
Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (2 msgs)
Binkley ST ?
dbase clones on Atari
difference between sf314 and sf354
Flavours of ST
FOR SALE:: Complete Atari ST system
Gnu Emacs 18.57 and other ramblings....
Looking for a4widr.sty file
Wanted: Filter Atari 8-bit chars to ISO-Latin-1
WIZARD OF WOR for the ATARI ST
ZIP for the ST
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 13:01:42 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!uni-koeln!ibmvm.rrz.uni-koeln.de!AC036@uunet.uu.net
Subject: *.lst files? What kind of basic???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <11854@vela.acs.oakland.edu> swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu writes:
> I have not really done any basic work on the ST, other than with
> the interpretive version that comes with the original package. I ran into
> some source code the other day, however for a version of uucico for the
> ST that is written in what appears to be basic and I was wondering if
> anyone knew what it might be, or perhaps if someone could compile my
> modified version for me? The file has a suffix of .lst and has no line
> numbers. Anyway, if anyone can help me out, I would appreciate it...
>
> swood
The source is written in GFA-Basic and saved as ASCII (SAVEA-Option).
There are two possible options used in GFA-Basic:
1) SAVE: the source is saved in a tokenised form, which is shorter
than the pure ASCII-source. Loading is faster too.
(load with LOAD-option)
2) SAVEA: ASCII-source. Used to save blocks and procedures.
(load with MERGE-option)
In Germany, GFA-Basic is distributed in three different versions:
GFA-Basic 2.02 Development-Kit (about 50.- DM):
Old version (uses .LST and .BAS as extension). No GEM-functions.
GFA-Basic 3.0 Development-Kit (about 200.- DM)
GEM-functions included, Turbo C-functions supported (see manual).
GFA_Basic 3.5 Development-Kit (about 300.- DM)
Like version 3.0 with additional matrix-functions and features.
I don't know exactly, but I think that there's a distributor for
GFA-Basic in the USA (see magazines like Antic or STart).
Berthold Cogel E-mail: ac036@ibmvm.rrz.uni-koeln.de
Inst. . Anorg. Chem.
Univertitaet Koeln
------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 91 17:42:00 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!wue.maus.de!Thorsten_Di
etrichkeit@uunet.uu.net (Thorsten Dietrichkeit)
Subject: Atari's image
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
s>Atari must rid the games image in Australia. I guess that Atari's past is
s>still lingering around the place. One of the reasons why Atari did so
s>well in Germany is that the Atari 8bit computers and video games were not
s>well known so that its gaming reputation did not degrade the machine.
Yes, Atari does well in germany but although it still has the games image here.
If you ask someone who's no real freak he will propably tell you that they're
producing homecomputers. If you'd know Atari's commercials you knew why.
I can't imagine that's even worse somewhere else ...
Thorsten_Dietrichkeit@wue.maus.de
Bad Pyrmont, Germany
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 12:25:53 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!ruunfs!ruunfs!muts@uunet.uu.net (Peter Mutsaers)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>>On 28 Nov 91 11:11:12 GMT, cs_a206@kingston.ac.uk (Richard Smart) said:
Richard> I am supprised that the Atari st has not died for the more
Richard> favourable Amiga 500 series. The atari is such a bad machine
Richard> that I am supprised people buy it !!!
Richard> Atari St's are great for the following functions.
> Door Wedges
> Sleeping Policemen
> Toilet Paper Holders
> A 512K Printer Buffer
> A Dust Absorber
> A Source Of Electronics for your HAIRDRYER ?
> A Sign Of Poverty
> A Tax Dodger
Richard> p.s.
Richard> Q > what is the differance between the ST and the SPECTRUM ?
Richard> A > The midi ports !!!
Richard> Should ST's be put in the newsgroup rec.humor instead
Richard> because they are all jokes.
Again one of these boring comparisons with amiga's 500. Maybe when it
goes for playing games the amiga is better. But when you experiment
with minix, use the st as a terminal (there are great terminal
emulation programs) or other serious things you don't need the extra
features of the Amiga 500, which only are in the way and slow down the
68000.
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Peter Mutsaers. RUU physics dept. Heidelberglaan 5, Utrecht, Nederland
muts@fysap.fys.ruu.nl |================================================
tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 | Memento Mori
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 13:09:32 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!
newsroom.utas.edu.au!bruny.cc.utas.edu.au!u894776@arizona.edu (James McCoull)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
muts@fysap.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:
>>>On 28 Nov 91 11:11:12 GMT, cs_a206@kingston.ac.uk (Richard Smart) said:
> Richard> I am supprised that the Atari st has not died for the more
> Richard> favourable Amiga 500 series. The atari is such a bad machine
> Richard> that I am supprised people buy it !!!
> Richard> Atari St's are great for the following functions.
> > Door Wedges
> > Sleeping Policemen
> > Toilet Paper Holders
> > A 512K Printer Buffer
> > A Dust Absorber
> > A Source Of Electronics for your HAIRDRYER ?
> > A Sign Of Poverty
> > A Tax Dodger
> Richard> p.s.
> Richard> Q > what is the differance between the ST and the SPECTRUM ?
> Richard> A > The midi ports !!!
> Richard> Should ST's be put in the newsgroup rec.humor instead
> Richard> because they are all jokes.
>Again one of these boring comparisons with amiga's 500. Maybe when it
>goes for playing games the amiga is better. But when you experiment
>with minix, use the st as a terminal (there are great terminal
>emulation programs) or other serious things you don't need the extra
>features of the Amiga 500, which only are in the way and slow down the
>68000.
In what way do the chips get in the way. If you are using an amiga
for these simple things then the custom wont be stealing cycles. The only
thing i can imagine you are thinking of is the fact that the amigas architecture
means that the 68000 can only do memory access on even cycles - stretching
very few instructions by one cycle.
The advantage the st has is 8MHz vs 7.1509MHz, along with a lot
simpler operating system and easier integration into a pc world (your dos
format disks).
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 13:44:42 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!urmel!oli@uunet.uu.net (Oliver Bonten)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
cs_a206@kingston.ac.uk (Richard Smart) writes:
[nonsense deleted]
Sounds as if "Nomen est Omen" doesn't apply to you, does it. This could
have been an appropriate posting for "alt.babies.playground.waffle".
Oliver
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 13:49:00 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!urmel!oli@uunet.uu.net (Oliver Bonten)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
muts@fysap.fys.ruu.nl (Peter Mutsaers) writes:
>Again one of these boring comparisons with amiga's 500. Maybe when it
Comparison?
Oliver
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 22:49:08 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!simonk@uunet.uu.net (Simon Kinahan)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
OH GOD WILL YOU PEOPLE SHUT UP !!!!
Everyone is entitled to use whatever computer they please and immature
(and whats more, unreasoned) bickereing helps nobody.
Simon Kinahan aka simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk
"So Much to do, So Little Time"
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 22:42:34 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!agate!apple!equinox!cs.unr.
edu!chan@arizona.edu (Kaho Chan)
Subject: Atari ST Dead ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Do you feel better now, Mr. R. Smart? Or is it R. U. Smart?
Both machines have their good points and their bad points. If we started
another flame war about which machine is better or who's machine has a
better "whatever"... IT WILL NEVER END.
If you don't like ST's then don't bother this newsgroup.
We know what flaws there are and what not...
I don't want to start saying things like:
"I hate the Amigas because... It's about
time they got rid of OS on disk... They suck... Too many guru..."
BUT I'M ABOVE THAT!
Grow up Mr. Smart... Or R. N. YA SMART ENOUGH?
NOTE: no flames please... (if you don't understand then pretend this
message is a recursive function (read again and again and again..))
##########################################################################
NOTE: E. Lee, I don't want to here it...
chan@mammoth.cs.unr.edu
Kaho Chan<=============ChanmaN
HanmA
AnM
N
##########################################################################
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 11:47:15 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!sunic!ugle.unit.no!lise.unit.no!stigvi@uunet.uu.net
(Stig Vidar Hovland)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1939@mwca.UUCP>, bill@mwca.UUCP (Bill Sheppard) writes:
|> %>
|> %>First, the TT is a bit underpowered seeing as how it is basically just
|> %>a 16MHz 68030. Oh I know the CPU is running at 32MHz but the I/O buss
|> %>is still 16MHz and UNIX is VERY I/O intensive (can you say disk swapping?).
|>
|> I don't think this will be a problem. We just bought a 33MHz 80386, a very
|> nice, reasonably high performance platform. While the processor runs at
|> 33 MHz, the bus runs at 8.7 MHz - I think this is standard for PC-AT bus
|> architecture. The TT's bus running at 16 MHz is twice as fast, ignoring the
|> fact that TT video is accessible by the CPU, whereas PC-AT video has to be
|> accessed over the bus (I know about fast RAM vs. video RAM, but it is still
|> more direct for a TT then for AT architecture). Secondly, the ST/TT has
never
|> been a slouch when it comes to disk performance, regardless of bus speed. If
|> my 8MHz ST can approach 1 MB/sec with a middle-of-the-road SCSI drive, I'm
|> sure a 32/16MHz TT can do much better with a high-end Unix-y drive.
|>
I am sure I have mentioned this before-- The TT does not have a 16MHz bus.
(nor does it have a 32MHZ bus, either) The 68030 in the TT are reading from
TT-Fastram in the burst-modus, which is as fast as it can be. The SCSI
controller
writes to memory with 1 or 2 (or more..) waitstates, but this is not important.
The
main thing is that the controller is capable to cope with even the fastest
diskdrives.
Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 17:37:17 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!mjl-b@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <691261243.1@therip.FidoNet.Org> Rod.Fulk@f24.n228.z1.FidoNet.Org
(Rod Fulk) writes:
> RC> First, the TT is a bit underpowered seeing as how it is basically just
> RC> a 16MHz 68030. Oh I know the CPU is running at 32MHz but the I/O buss
> RC> is still 16MHz and UNIX is VERY I/O intensive (can you
> RC> say disk swapping?).
> [stuff about 16MHz 68030 == 25MHz 486]
>Also realize that the fast memory on the tt is all at 33mhz. This also includes
>DMA scsi access to the fast memory..
This is not correct -- the memory subsystem of the TT only runs at 16MHz.
The chips all run at 32MHz, but memory is still half the speed. TT RAM is
faster because you don't have any contention with the video shifter (which
requires bus access to ST RAM to generate the video display).
However, since the 68030 burst-fills its caches, you do minimise the impact
of the slower memory.
As to the slowness of the paging -- you can fix this by buying more memory.
I know someone who uses a TT under Unix every day as his personal X
workstation and he suggests that 8MB RAM is a minimum configuration.
Mathew
| Mathew Lodge | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning plan' |
| mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | heading towards this conversation with ill |
| Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III |
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 18:26:58 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!urmel!slcdec!sungate.fido.de!p1.hippo.fido.de!kab.fido.de!Bernd_Ren
zing@uunet.uu.net (Bernd Renzing)
Subject: Binkley ST ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello Warwick !
In einer Nachricht vom 25.11.91 schrieb Warwick Allison (2:242/6.1):
WA> I have heard Binkley ST (apparently it's a BBS program) is PD.
Nope, it's NOT ab BBS Programm, it's an FidoNet FrontEndMailer with an inbuilt
Terminalpart ! You can download it from all FidoNet BBS's in Australia which
are woring on an ST. (Try 3:712/xxx and ask fro an ST-Node)
Bye,Bernd.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Nov 1991 09:39:00 -0500
From: CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA
Subject: dbase clones on Atari
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have dbman for years. While it is not as elegant as dbaseIII plus as
far as ASSIST, help and form creation are concerned, it does work well
and fast. You can use it in dbman or dbase compatible file mode; the
former is claimed to be faster. I have done a number of "dbase" contracts
on my ST using dbman and the customers have all been happy with the
results. dbman only uses 640x400 pixels on my 1280x960 TTM195.
Now if you want a database that is pure fun to use as well as capable
try Superbase Professional (not sure if it is still on the market). You
can mix text and graphics for a great database!!!
------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 91 00:57:43 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!csun.edu!kithrup!hoptoad!wet!ekrimen@arizo
na.edu (Ed Krimen)
Subject: difference between sf314 and sf354
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <ki5gitINN43b@utkcs2.cs.utk.edu> gathings@hydra1d.cs.utk.edu (Golando
Gathings) writes:
>I would like to know the difference of drive types between the above.
The 314 is a double-sided drive and the 354 is a single-sided drive.
Otherwise, they are identical.
( CAN SOMEONE PLEASE SEND ME E-MAIL TO LET ME KNOW THAT THIS IS GETTING OUT?
--
||| Ed Krimen
||| ekrimen@wet.UUCP
/ | \ E.KRIMEN (GEnie)
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 00:07:53 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!mips!news.cs.indiana.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.ed
u!kksys!tdkt!FredGate@arizona.edu (Chuck Grimsby)
Subject: Flavours of ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <Nov 25 12:17>, -Unknown- (1:282/31) writes:
>From: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk
>Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st
>Reply-To: mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk (Mathew Lodge)
>In article <1991Nov24.194950.17984@rdg.dec.com> bailey@newoa.enet.dec.com
>(newoa::bailey) writes:
>As a newcomer to the world of Atari St (well I've still to get my
>system!) could someone please translate the various flavours of ST
>
>Reading the various ST books there seems to be
>
>Atari ST
>The original ST, with "house-brick" external power supply. No TV
>modulator.
>Atari ST-E
>Enhanced ST, with Blitter as standard, plus new 4096 colour palette,
>hardware scrolling, stereo DMA sound, TOS 1.6x, a few more joystick ports
>and a light pen interface.
>Atari ST-M
>The original ST plus TV modulator.
>Atari ST-FM
>Original ST plus TV modulator, internal floppy drive and internal power
>supply. Early STFMs had single sided drives, later ones double sided.
Nice list, 'cept that the original ST's had TV Modulators in them. They went
out with the ST-F's, which were the next version after the original ST came
out.
* Origin: FlightLine PointNet (1:282/47.1)
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 00:03:04 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!s
lsst11@arizona.edu (Sharon L Skwara)
Subject: FOR SALE:: Complete Atari ST system
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
FOR SALE:
Hardware: Atari 1040ST with 2.5megs RAM
30 Meg Hard Drive
Color and Monochrome Monitors
Mouse Master
Deskcart!
Spectre 128 (minus ROMS)
Software Includes: Word Perfect, MultiGEM, Mark Williams C,
Quick ST II, Degas Elite, Juggler II, Flash
1.6, alot of Adventure games (including
Dungeon Master, Captain Blood, Ultima IV,
etc.) and alot of excellent PD/shareware
software including Gemini 1.2, misc. DC and
CPX shareware, Unix Windows, etc.
Magazines: June-October 1991 ST Format (British) with Disks
Price: $800+shipping/handling
I will only sell the system as a whole. If you are interested,
please leave email to FF at: slsst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 00:24:17 GMT
From:
paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!mlb.semi.harris.com!uflorida!travis!jgj@uu
net.uu.net (Jeff Jackson)
Subject: Gnu Emacs 18.57 and other ramblings....
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
You could try setting the unixmode environment variable, then re-extract
(most zoo's are unixmode aware) and redump. You're shell doesn't need
to be unixmode aware to run unixmode programs. Lets see, a good setting
for what you want to do would be
/.,rCLAb
(replace C with whatever disk you have this stuff on).
(you may not need L, but I don't know if A will work without it)
Better yet, get the unixmode bash and my port of tons of gnu utilities
(futils_jgj or something like that) and pretend you have a unix box.
--
============================================================================
Jeffrey Glen Jackson _|_Satan jeered, "You're dead meat Jesus, I'm gonna
jgj@ssd.csd.harris.com | bust you up tonight."
x5120 | Jesus said, "Go ahead, make my day."
%%%%%%%%% -- Carman, "The Champion"
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 18:40:46 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!warwick!nott-cs!lut.ac.uk!elmar@uunet.uu.net (Mohammad A.
Rahin)
Subject: Looking for a4widr.sty file
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
To all regular LaTeX users,
Could someone please send me the a4wide.sty file ? I need that to print the
profgem.tex file which I've recently downloaded from atari.archive.
Advance thanks to all.
- Rahin
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
_ _ _ __ _ __
' ) ) ) / ) ' ) ) /
/ / / /--/ /--' __. /_ o ____
/ ' (_/ (_ / \_(_/|_/ /_<_/ / <_
M.A.Rahin@uk.ac.lut -> from within UK
M.A.Rahin@lut.ac.uk -> from outside UK
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 15:09:32 GMT
From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek)
Subject: Wanted: Filter Atari 8-bit chars to ISO-Latin-1
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Is there a filter that maps the Atari character set (as best as
possible) to the standard ISO-Latin 1 character set? I'm sure that
someone must have already done this. For the moment I use to
following shell script on my Unix box which filters atari characters
for our PostScript printers. It handles a reasonable portion of
German and French specifc characters that I encounter.
#!/bin/sh
# \201 u-umlaut \374 /udieresis
# \202 e-accent \351 /eacute
# \203 a-circumflex \342 /acircumflex
# \204 a-umlaut \344 /adieresis
# \205 a-grave \340 /agrave
# \207 c-cedilla \347 /ccedilla
# \210 e-circumflex \352 /ecircumflex
# \212 e-grave \350 /egrave
# \214 i-circumflex \356 /icircumflex
# \216 A-umlaut \304 /Adieresis
# \223 o-circumflex \364 /ocircumflex
# \224 o-umlaut \366 /odieresis
# \226 u-circumflex \373 /ucircumflex
# \232 U-umlaut \334 /Udieresis
# O-umlaut \326 /Odieresis
# \236 ss \337 /germandbls
# \254 1/4 \274 /onequarter
# \371 \267 /bullet
tr "\201\202\203\204\205\207\210\212\214\216\223\224\226\232\236\254\371"\
"\374\351\342\344\340\347\352\350\356\304\364\366\373\334\337\274\267"
So can anyone improve on this? Or is there a C program to do this?
Thanks to all,
--
Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph
If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
Phone: (+33-)61-33-62-66 FAX-1: (+33-)61-33-64-55 FAX-2: (+33-)61-55-35-77
===============================================================================
Got a Mega 4 ST. Wish it was a Mega STe? :-| Do I *really* want a TT/Next? ;%#
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 11:12:46 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!ira.uka.de!iraul1!iraul1!news@uunet.uu.net (|S| Florian
Dingler)
Subject: WIZARD OF WOR for the ATARI ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi there,
'Wizard of Wor' is nearly complete.
I'm planning to release a public domain version without sound and wizard, but
everything else. A Shareware-version with sound and wizard will follow if the
response is big enough.
Anybody interested in 'Wizard of Wor' ? Or have I spent my time for a thing
nobody wants to have ?
f.
--[signature]-----------+------------------------------
Florian Dingler | S_DINGLER@irav1.ira.uka.de
Litzenhardtstrasse 22 | UKDP@dkauni2.de
W-7500 KARLSRUHE 1 +------------------------------
Tel.:(+49) 721-861216 | living to make history ...
Fed. Rep. of Germany |
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 18:21:38 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!urmel!slcdec!sungate.fido.de!p1.hippo.fido.de!kab.fido.de!Bernd_Ren
zing@uunet.uu.net (Bernd Renzing)
Subject: ZIP for the ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello Bob !
In einer Nachricht vom 24.11.91 schrieb bob_bobr_retelle@cup.portal.com
(2:242/6.1):
bb> Gerard Pinzone writes:
>> I need a program that ZIP's files on the ST. Currently, there only
>> exists a beta version of one on atari.archive.umich.edu and it's
>> really buggy.
I have here an ZIP for the ST, it an Beta Version which has Problems if you
pack too many Files into the Archiv but it works ,if you know this, quite well
! I can't post it into comp.sys.atari.st.binary ro an other Area, because i'am
not connected, but i think it should be avaible
there:STZIP09.LZH
The Programm is from an France Guy which has debuged the Packets from PKZIP and
has coded the Programm to create such Packets.
Bye,Bernd.
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
