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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 625
Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 29 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 625
Today's Topics:
68000 assembler - any good books suggested?
Atari C manuals
Atari Stuff still for sale
Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (2 msgs)
Avoiding Microsoft (was: Quick-ST 2 or 3 wanted)
Converting Degas pictures to PC readable - and vice versa.
FOR SALE:: Complete Atari ST system
GFA Basic WANTED
Help for Supercharger (anyone from Augsburg?)
Mint boots Gem from wrong drive (2 msgs)
Top for Mint crashes
TOS 2.XX info required (2 msgs)
ZIP for the ST
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:23:26 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!
bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!topaz.ucq.edu.au!johnsonc@arizona.edu
Subject: 68000 assembler - any good books suggested?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Can anyone suggest a good book (readable and understandable) to learn
68000 assembly from? Even if it doesn't fill the above criteria, concerning
understandability, I'd like to know about it. I'd prefer it if it was specific
for the ST too, please.
--
Chris Johnson
Final Year B.App.Sc (Computing)
"Just another student"
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 00:36:16 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!slxsys!ibmpcug!demon!news@uunet.uu.net (Iain Laskey)
Subject: Atari C manuals
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I can't see how you can be having problems with Lattice C. It's a superb
product. I have ported PC and Unix code to it with minimal changes. I code
in Ansi C at work and certainly don't do anything different with Lattice.
You mentioned you are fairly new to programming, stick with it, and Lattice.
You just need a bit more practice!
###############################
# Iain R Laskey #
# ilaskey@cix.compulink.co.uk #
###############################
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 04:54:17 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!olivea!isc-br!michaela@arizona.edu
(Michael Albo)
Subject: Atari Stuff still for sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Atari ST computer system AND software FOR SALE
HERE IS WHAT IS LEFT:
- Supra 30 Meg Hard Drive
This has a 3.5" SCSI drive in it. $300 OR BEST OFFER
- Software:
- 1st Word Plus 3.14
- Dac Easy Accounting
- Printmaster
- 2 Printmaster Libraries
- Degas
- Regent Spell
- ST Copy
- Raid (debugger)
- ST Color Book
- Backup (hard drive backup from Michtron)
- Fleet Street Publisher Version 1.1
- a few games
$40 FOR ALL OF THE
REMAINING SOFTWARE
Terms are C.O.D. and the buyer must pay shipping.
Michael Albo
michaela@ft-a.isc-br.com (ISC-Bunker Ramo Corp.)
(509) 928-8009 (home)
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 16:54:52 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!umich!sharkey!wybbs!therip!FredGate@arizona.e
du (Rod Fulk)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>I don't know where you can buy a IIfx for the same price as an ASV
>development system. Maybe there are some differences between Germany and
>the USA, but out here the IIfx costs twice as much. But keep your
>hands off A/UX, Version 2.x is simply unbearable, and the 3.0 version
>I saw a few days ago crashed as often as System 7 :-)
>I wouldn't buy expensive computers like that if their OS is that buggy.
RC> ah, so A/UX is buggy. do you really think that Atari's UNIX will
RC> be any better? Heck, Atari still can't make a multitasking OS for the
RC> TT, so I don't place much faith in their UNIX porting abilities!!
Atari IS making a multi tasking OS for the TT as well as any other machine.
When you will see it? Well depending on theri resources you should see it when
you see the TT040 next year. (Remember, after Atari got over the deal with
federated you have been able to believe what they tell you. Atleast what I have
been hearing anyhow..) Its unix is in beta test now. It SHOULD be very bug
free by the time its released to the public next year. The atari developers
tend to find any bugs in there.. ;-) (UNfortunatley the hard way sometimes.)
RC> MArkus, you hit the nail square on the head. The Macintosh computers
RC> ARE much cheaper here in the USA then they were just 12 months ago.
Not really THAT much.. Sure they have a couple low end machines now but the
higher end machines are still quite high. Classic hits for retail of $999. But
what does it Really have? Its only 8mhz, 1 meg expandable to 4meg, an internal
floppy. (I heard they are going to go to HD 3.5 drives maybe?) and a 9 inch
black and white monitor. Ataris 520Ste comes for roughly $350 and is also
expandable to 4 meg with the same memory chips as the classic. And add an extra
$100 for a 13 inch monochrome monitor or $300 f
or a color or $400 for both. The atari is discounted in many places. Apple
discourages discounting in its dealers and will retract support to dealers
willing to do ANY discounting.
And any one trying mail order in the mac world will be shut down also. Atleast
in the atari world if I don't have a local dealer I can call a couple hundred
miles away and talk to one and get a discounted machine sent to me.
RC> A MAc IIci is a 25MHz 68030 and can be bought for about $3100 sans
RC> keyboard and monitor. Add $700 for a decent COLOR monitor and keyboard,
RC> and another $500 for Apple A/UX 2.01 and you are still under $5,000.
RC> A Mac IIFX should add about $1,000 to that price, so now you are at
RC> $6,000. A Quadra 700 is a 25Mhz 68040 which blows away the TT in]
RC> power, so I won't compare it in price. I really believe that the TT030
RC> is comparable in performance to the MacIIci and not the Mac IIfx, since
RC> the TT030 uses a 16MHz I/O bus, even though the CPU is clocked at 33MHz.
I have NO idea where your getting your prices on the macs cause they are no
where near that neat me... $500 for A/ux? Yea right...
My understanding is it comes on an $80 meg HD, on a CDrom or on Tape...
If you buy it on the 80 meg HD your over $1000 and the other ways are slighlty
cheaper.. You also forgot to mention the fact that Apple commercial software
normally costs atleast the same as the high priced IBM software.. The same
software on an Atari is no more then half the IBM pricing in most cases of the
high priced stuff. Admit it you have a love affair with the mac.
SO go to it and leave us alone. Also realize that the GNU utilities unless
ported by an outside party will never be supported on ANYTHING with apple on
it. There is a reason for that. Apple is VERY rigid with its dealers and
developers. THey will tell everyone the way it is and not as how they would
like it. Atari is more willing to ask how you want something and are not as
snobish by any means as apple is. And you can NOT turn your head on the free
software association. (Or whatever their names are.. The
ones writting the GNU utilities. ) They have ALOT of things out there for free
that on the mac you have to pay for and pay for dearly.
RC> In any case the USA price of a TT030 is about $3,000 for the TT030
RC> with say 8 megs of RAM. Adding TT RAM is VERY expensive since you have to
RC> buy a memory board which only Atari supplies, and which is in short
RC> supply right now. So, adding memory to a TT is more expensive than adding
RC> the same amount of memory to a Mac. Thanks Atari!
A friend of mine just bought a TT for $1800 with 2 meg of memory.. And $450 for
his color monitor. He has choices comming REAL soon for memory boards to add
MUCH more then any of the macs can currently handle.. (Course in the newest
68040 machines maybe you can use 4meg drams.. But from the info I saw NONE of
the macs currently in production just before the classic came out would handle
the 4meg simms chips so they were limited to 8meg without an additional memory
card which is just as expensive as a TT me
mory card..)
RC> The ASV costs another $2,000, plus you need the $1,000 monochrome
RC> monitor. So, you are up to $6,000 for an Atari computer. That is just
RC> about what a MacIIFX with A/UX and a COLOR monitor would cost.
You don't NEED the blasted $1000 monitor. You are comparing the color of a MAC
to a TT. The TT is quite able to compete with the minimal graphics that come
with the machines you mention. The TT only costs $500 or less for the same your
talking $700 for on a mac. The minimal color graphics on the new macs are 4
bits and thats the same the TT is capable of at 640x480. TO go above that on
either machine your talking over $1000. My boss has a nice mac // with a 8 bit
card. Only cost him $2500... Gesh I could a
dd a $800 24bit card and a $800 monitor and have better graphics.. Not as well
supported maybe but of course that is my problem then... And with unix you just
need to add a new driver for it.
RC> It is when you need to add peripherals that the sorry shape of the Atari
RC> market really is noticed.
RC> But with a Mac you can add almost any type peripheral including CDROMs.
RC> And they work under A/UX as well as the Mac OS.
YOu can buy them for the ST too.. The difference is its a little harder to find
drivers but they ARE out there if you wanna look around and call atari to ask
for leads. Not only that but they normally are alot cheaper for the ST/TT.
* Origin: The R.I.P. (616)235-2313 [HST] (1:228/24)
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 07:44:41 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!
tortoise.cis.ohio-state.edu!tbrown@arizona.edu (ted croft brown)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <691268803.14@therip.FidoNet.Org> Rod.Fulk@f24.n228.z1.FidoNet.Org
(Rod Fulk) writes:
>When you will see it? Well depending on theri resources you should see it when
you see the TT040 next year. (Remember, after Atari got over the deal with
federated you have been able to believe what they tell you. Atleast what I have
been hearing anyhow..) Its unix is in beta test now. It SHOULD be very bug
free by the time its released to the public next year. The atari developers
tend to find any bugs in there.. ;-) (UNfortunatley the hard way sometimes.)
>
>
On a note about the new 040 Macs, last I heard AIX (AUX, won't matter in awile
as they are rumored to soon be the same) wouldn't run on them. I
very well could be mistaken now, but it was true for awhile. In fact the
Quadras were delayed because Sys 7.0 wouldn't even run on them!
The 040 is binary compatable with the others in it's family from the user
mode, but NOT in supervisor mode. Evidently this throws a small wrench
into things for Mac (it's always in supervisor mode). If Atari hurries they
might have unix running on an 040 before apple.
>A friend of mine just bought a TT for $1800 with 2 meg of memory.. And $450 for
his color monitor. He has choices comming REAL soon for memory boards to add
MUCH more then any of the macs can currently handle.. (Course in the newest
68040 machines maybe you can use 4meg drams.. But from the info I saw NONE of
the macs currently in production just before the classic came out would handle
the 4meg simms chips so they were limited to 8meg without an additional memory
card which is just as expensive as a TT m
e
>
>
Hmm... didn't seem to quote right.... well anyway...
All the higher Macs can take the 4m simms. The si can go up to 17m and the ci
and up can go to 32Megs. This is OUT OF THE BOX! Current prices for 4Meg
simms put 16M at approximately $600.
You can even buy 16Meg simms (that's right, 16 meg) simms and put them
in a ci or fx giving you 128Meg! I don't haven't heard if this works under
Sys7.0 or not but it worked under Sys 6.?. (I would tend to doubt it,
knowing apple.).
I won't comment on the video solution. I don't really know what options are
available for the TT. Or for that matter, any real costs for the options on
a Mac.
I just thought I'd correct that error (about the memory). (By the way I am
both a mac user and an ST user, so don't think I am another mac weenie out
stirring up trouble.:))
It's currious that you are comparing the TT with the Mac. If you are talking
UNIX platforms, the competions for the TT seems to be Amiga 3000, the 040
HP machine, the low end Sparc Stations, and The NeXT. All, well maybe not
the amiga :), are proven products which sell in the $5,000 markert, although
your millage may vary.
In the US at least, the NeXT looks like a great deal. About $5K will get
you an 040, a 2 bit 17" greyscale monitor, 20M RAM and 600Mg HD, and scads of
software. But those are student prices buying Memory and Hard Drive from
Second sources. I think this is a much more serious threat than Apple
(if you're talking UNIX). I don't even know if Atari HAS student prices
for the TT. Right now I am just scoping out the territory deceiding who I
should sell my soul to. My personal opinion is NOT to go with Apple. Lately,
they seem to have become the great monolithic beast that IBM is. No
innovation. Just stagnation. Coupling two monoliths MIGHT make something
new and great, but I'm certainly not counting on it.
Atari I'm not sure about. They have proven they can crank out really capable
machines, but, they sure are good at fumbling the ball. Could someone explain
to me how the MAC is so popular and ST's aren't? And I LIKE Macs. But the ST
seems to be a more capable machine that any of the early Macs. I guess apple
is really good at brainwahing people (like me :)).
If there is a time for Atari to strike it's now. I don't think I'm the only
one who is beoming leary of Macintosh. But, Steve Job's is starting to
really push the NeXT lately...and I have to admit the machines look sexy. They
are priced above the TT but they probably fall into roughly the same market.
Well...sorry for rambling but I'm trying to work off all that turkey.
Ohh..and sorry for that bit of semi-NeXT propaganda and all. Don't flame
me too hard.
Ted Brown.
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:36:15 GMT
From: milo!scotty@uunet.uu.net (Scott R. Chilcote)
Subject: Avoiding Microsoft (was: Quick-ST 2 or 3 wanted)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
michael@dime.cs.umass.edu (Michael Kieras) writes:
>This is _precisely_ why I won't use Branch Always products. As it is, I'm
>disappointed that I bought the ST Xformer from him when it was still
>shareware. I'd like to avoid using Microsoft products for the same reason
>(well, ok, that's not the only reason), but if I ever switch to using an
>Intel machine, that won't be easy.
Look at the writeup of OS/2 Ver. 2.0 in December Byte before you buy Windows.
It runs Windows applications, gets a bit closer to "true multitasking" (?) :-)
and gives Bill Gates insomnia.
>Michael Kieras
>michael@cs.umass.edu
>I do not speak for my employer.
Me neither.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Scott R. Chilcote
scotty@verdix.com
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:23:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!
bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!topaz.ucq.edu.au!johnsonc@arizona.edu
Subject: Converting Degas pictures to PC readable - and vice versa.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does anyone know how (if possible) to convert .PI?, .PC?, etc (Degas compatible)
files so that they can be viewed on a PC and vice versa?
--
Chris Johnson
Final Year B.App.Sc (Computing)
"Just another student"
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 00:06:52 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.p
itt.edu!slsst11@arizona.edu (Sharon L Skwara)
Subject: FOR SALE:: Complete Atari ST system
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I almost forgot: the 1040ST (2.5meg) system has TOS 1.4 as well...
slsst11@unix.cis.pitt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:26:15 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!
darwin.ntu.edu.au!topfm@arizona.edu
Subject: GFA Basic WANTED
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <11855@vela.acs.oakland.edu>, swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu ( EVENSONG)
writes:
> Subject says it. I am looking for a version of GFA basic, as new as
> possible... (if you did not see in my previous posting, I think that
> is what I am after - after all, it is about time that I fill out my
> compiler collection)
>
> swood
>
> --
> ---- Insert favorite .signature here ---- | swood@argo.acs.oakland.edu
> | swood@vela.acs.oakland.edu
> Bitnet: swood@Oakland | swood@unix.secs.oakland.edu
> UUCP: ...!uunet!umich!{vela, argo, unix, nucleus}!swood
GFA basic is NOT PD.
a company called GFA write it, a UK based organisation.
Ask your nearest Atari dealer, ( i hear that version 4 is coming soon)
Rob.
* I said it not anyone else *
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 06:59:01 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!wuphys!petcher@arizona.edu (Donald N.
Petcher)
Subject: Help for Supercharger (anyone from Augsburg?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
My sister lives in Augsburg (Germany), and has purchased a Supercharger
for IBM emulation that she is having trouble to get to work properly.
Can someone give me information about a user group there that can help
her, or perhaps is there someone on the net from that vicinity who would
be able to help? She has no knowledge of how to find such a group or
person and does not have access to this network. Please email privately.
Thanks in advance.
Donald Petcher petcher@wuphys.wustl.edu
Department of Physics
Washington University
Saint Louis, Missouri, USA
------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 22:54:34 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!simonk@uunet.uu.net (Simon Kinahan)
Subject: Mint boots Gem from wrong drive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
oli@math.rwth-aachen.de (Oliver Bonten) writes:
>simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk (Simon Kinahan) writes:
>> If I remember rightly this is not MiNT's fault. I think GEM always
>>tries to get the ACCs etc from drive C: or A:. There is a program
>>usually distributed with the RDE ramdisk which fixes this
>Well, My HD-Driver does. I have Mint in the Auto-folder of G:, and when
>booting from G:, this Auto-folder is read, Mint executed as last prg. in
>it, then Accessories and Newdesk.inf are read from C:. This must be because
>Mint either resets something or does the booting itself.
I am not absolutely clear about this but I think you may find that even
if you do not boot with MiNT GEM will attempt to boot from C: whichever
drive TOS has booted from. That is certainly th eimpression the RDE docs
give.
Simon Kinahan aka simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk
So Much to do, So Little Time
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 08:06:04 GMT
From: paladin.american.edu!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!urmel!oli@uunet.uu.net
(Oliver Bonten)
Subject: Mint boots Gem from wrong drive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
simonk@castle.ed.ac.uk (Simon Kinahan) writes:
> I am not absolutely clear about this but I think you may find that even
>if you do not boot with MiNT GEM will attempt to boot from C: whichever
>drive TOS has booted from. That is certainly th eimpression the RDE docs
>give.
No, that is definitely not true. If I boot from Drive F: for instance,
what I do if I have my external HD on, the Auto folder, ACCs and Newdewsk.inf
are loaded from F:. This worked with G: as well, but if Mint is in the Auto
folder of G: and Gem booted from under Mint, it boots from C:. This must
be a bug in Mint.
Oliver
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 00:10:59 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu
!bucsf.bu.edu!harryk@arizona.edu (Harry Karayiannis)
Subject: Top for Mint crashes
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <279@htsa.htsa.aha.nl> andre@maestro.htsa.aha.nl (Andre v.d. Vlies)
writes:
>In article <MUTS.91Nov7100923@fysaq.fys.ruu.nl> muts@fysap.fys.ruu.nl (Peter
Mutsaers) writes:
>>Actually I should have mailed this to Andy Pratt, who is the author,
>>but I couldn't find his email address. Sorry.
>>
>>On Mint09, using bash or gulam as shell, the older TOP worked well,
>>but the Top adapted to version 0.9 (from pstops.zoo on atari.archive)
>>crashed with a 'segment violation'. Does everyone experience this?
>>--
>
>No TOP works fine with me. On the other hand I have trouble using MW. It
>can't find the SHELL (which I have set to INIT.PRG in INIT.RC) and my
>mouse dissapears when I start it like MW.TTP INIT.PRG. I have TOS 1.0 and
>haven't tried it at home yet (where I have TOS 1.4).
Well, unfortunately "top" crashes on my system too... I use ksh (v1.04) as
my shell. Also "less" which is supposed to be written especially for mint
is crashing the MegaST with a bus-error
=============================================================================
Author of ATZENTA2 Harry Karayiannis ________E-Mail________
15 N.Beacon, #316 Boston Univ. |INTERnet:
** || ATARI ** Allston, MA 02134 Computer Sc. | harryk@bucsf.bu.edu
** /||\ MegaST ** U.S.A. |BITnet:
======================================================| cscrzcc@buacca.bu.edu
----------------------
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:41:19 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!
darwin.ntu.edu.au!topfm@arizona.edu
Subject: TOS 2.XX info required
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
HELP
With the upgrade realease of TOS 2.XX soon to occur in Australia, yep we are
behind, I want to know what is necessary to install it into my 6 chip,
currently TOS 1.2 520 STfm???
Has anyone done it?
What problems occured, if any??
How much did it cost in total ( in US dollars )
Rob.
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 08:31:33 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!funic!nic.funet.fi!lahtinen@uunet.uu.net (Kimmo
Lahtinen)
Subject: TOS 2.XX info required
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have read from German magazines that there is (in Germany) a small PCB
that fits inside ST (you can not put 512 KB of ROM to the sockets of ST)
and including TOS 2.06 it costs DM 198.00 . The bad news is that it is
in German.
--
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Kimmo Lahtinen E-Mail : lahtinen@gideon.fmi.fi or
Finnish Meteorological Institute kimmo@field.fi
Phone : +358 0 758 1322
Possessed by a Spirit G3 Fax : +358 0 758 1396
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 07:53:11 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!darwin.ntu.edu.au!topfm@tcgould.tn.cornell.edu
Subject: ZIP for the ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Nov27.215651.12769@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu
(John Bunch) writes:
> I have also used ST Zip 0.9 extensivly and have not noticed it being
> Buggy? Ah well..
>
>
> John
>
> --
> John B Bunch * I don't want the world, I just want your
> 771 Madison Ave Apt.2e. * half.... -TMG
> Albany, NY 12208 * jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu
> (518) 436-3810 * UUCP: {...}!crdgw1!sixhub!myst!john
I have run into a problem with 0.9
I seem to constantly get an Erreur --> 17
Im using TOS1.2 on a 512K machine STfm single floppy only.
But PKunzip had no problems.
Rob.
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
