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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 627
Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 30 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 627
Today's Topics:
Accelerators for the ST forsale
Atari's image
Atari ST DEAD ?
Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there? (3 msgs)
DESKTOP.INF - How do I install two or more extensions for a file?
GFA Basic
High density floppies and emulators
Pixel Wonder vs. Autoswitch Overscan
REVIEW: MULTIDESK DELUXE
ST Basic and Copyrights
Text Windows for Pascal (2 msgs)
Weekly Posting of New Stuff
WERCS and Personal Pascal
Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 Nov 91 00:48:04 GMT
From: sequent!muncher.sequent.com!ether!bug!stevef@uunet.uu.net (Steven R
Fordyce)
Subject: Accelerators for the ST forsale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have come to possess a large number of Processor Accelerators for the 520,
1040, and Mega ST that I will sell for $65 each shipping included (add $5
for shipping outside the U.S.). I will sell two for $100. These are new
units, in the box, were built by CMI and are fully tested. These
accelerators are on multilayer boards that plug into a socket you solder
onto the 68000. These boards are built around a 16 MHz 68000 and run at
double the standard processor speed. The speed up you get with this product
depends on the software you are running, but it runs from 10 to 30%.
These boards (there is a different one for the 520/Mega or 1040, so let me
know what you want) also accept 68881 floating point unit of any speed,
although it doesn't pay to get one faster than 16 MHz. For software that
uses the math chip you can get speed ups of eight to ten times or more.
There is also a socket for an Atari blitter chip if your machine didn't come
with one. You can get these from your Atari dealer.
These boards originally sold for around $300. Schematics and PAL equations
are available on request (they are available separately along with a blank
board for $15). Complete instructions are included. DON'T try to install
one of these if you are not handy with a soldering iron and haven't done
this kind of thing before! I will not be liable for your mistakes.
As someone who got the schematics pointed out (thanks Keith Petley
<kp@crosfield.co.uk>), there were a couple of designs flaws in the boards I
was selling that could in some cases affect some users. However, these are
easy to fix and I have corrected the boards I'm selling now. If you bought
one of these before (either from me or from CMI), and are having trouble,
let me know and I will let you know how to fix it.
If you want one of these, call or send a check to:
Steven R. Fordyce
6913 Sunnyview Rd NE
Salem, OR 97305-9543
(503)362-8637
Steven R. Fordyce uunet!sequent!ether!stevef
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 03:13:17 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_Bob
R_Retelle@arizona.edu
Subject: Atari's image
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>I can't imagine that's even worse somewhere else ...
>Thorsten_Dietrichkeit@wue.maus.de
Consider yourself lucky that you don't live in the U.S.A.
BobR
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 19:35:38 GMT
From: agate!boulder!ucsu!horton.Colorado.EDU!chuj@ames.arpa (CHU JEFFREY)
Subject: Atari ST DEAD ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Nov28.111112.412@kingston.ac.uk> cs_a206@kingston.ac.uk (Richard
Smart) writes:
>
>I am supprised that the Atari st has not died for the more
>favourable Amiga 500 series. The atari is such a bad machine
>that I am supprised people buy it !!!
>
>Atari St's are great for the following functions.
> > Door Wedges
> > Sleeping Policemen
> > Toilet Paper Holders
> > A 512K Printer Buffer
> > A Dust Absorber
> > A Source Of Electronics for your HAIRDRYER ?
> > A Sign Of Poverty
> > A Tax Dodger
>
>p.s.
>Q > what is the differance between the ST and the SPECTRUM ?
>A > The midi ports !!!
>
>Should ST's be put in the newsgroup rec.humor instead because they are all
>jokes.
I can see a child has gone onto this line again!!! These fun AMIGA
people love to flame, its because they are unsure of themselfs and
always want to reassure that they purchase the right machine or not.
People who leave messages like this are also probably very lonely and
just wants some company or attention. Poor kid.
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 14:30:43 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!yorkohm!minster!mjl-b@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Nov28.114715.5915@ugle.unit.no> stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig Vidar
Hovland) writes:
>
>I am sure I have mentioned this before-- The TT does not have a 16MHz bus.
All together now: OH YES IT DOES!
>(nor does it have a 32MHZ bus, either)
Er...
>The 68030 in the TT are reading from
>TT-Fastram in the burst-modus, which is as fast as it can be.
Yes -- 16MHz fast!
>The SCSI controller
>writes to memory with 1 or 2 (or more..) waitstates, but this is not important.
The
>main thing is that the controller is capable to cope with even the fastest
diskdrives.
>
I could tell you some stories about early TTs and their SCSI performance,
but since the motherboard has now been modified it's not really worth it.
>Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
Mathew
| Mathew Lodge | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning plan' |
| mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | heading towards this conversation with ill |
| Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III |
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 21:38:40 GMT
From: cunixf.cc.columbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!cmm1@rutgers.rutgers.edu
(Christopher M Mauritz)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Nov26.141528.12615@rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de>
ttinfo@rusmv1.rus.uni-stuttgart.de (Markus Wenzel) writes:
>In article <9939@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>>
>>First, the TT is a bit underpowered seeing as how it is basically just
>>a 16MHz 68030. Oh I know the CPU is running at 32MHz but the I/O buss
>>is still 16MHz and UNIX is VERY I/O intensive (can you say disk swapping?).
>
>Think of other possible Unix computers at the same price, and then you
>would not find the TT underpowered. I would never give my TT away for
>a 386 or 486 clone or a low cost Mac. Macs with the same performance are
>three times as expensive.
>
Oh come on...We all know that I'm not a big fan of Atari, but this statement
is simply ridiculous. For the price of an Atari system with a decent
unix configuration, you could EASILY buy an Apple Quadra, a Sun Sparcstation
ELC, NeXTstation (68040 box) or a low end Apollo/HP box.
Whether of not the TT is a decent home computer is one thing, but to try
to pawn it off as some sort of unix "workstation" is really funny when
you consider what other products are available for the same price range.
Do you honestly think any serious unix user will take an Atari product
seriously?
Regards,
Chris
--------------+----------------------------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz |Homebrewing: The only hobby perfectly tailored for
| anal retentive alcoholics. :-)
--------------| (ripped off from someone on the net...)
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 11:32:42 GMT
From: mcsun!news.funet.fi!sunic!ugle.unit.no!lise.unit.no!stigvi@uunet.uu.net
(Stig Vidar Hovland)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <691425042.2801@minster.york.ac.uk>, mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
|> In article <1991Nov28.114715.5915@ugle.unit.no> stigvi@Lise.Unit.NO (Stig
Vidar Hovland) writes:
|> >
|> >I am sure I have mentioned this before-- The TT does not have a 16MHz bus.
|>
|> All together now: OH YES IT DOES!
|>
|> >(nor does it have a 32MHZ bus, either)
|>
|> Er...
|>
|> >The 68030 in the TT are reading from
|> >TT-Fastram in the burst-modus, which is as fast as it can be.
|>
|> Yes -- 16MHz fast!
|>
|> >The SCSI controller
|> >writes to memory with 1 or 2 (or more..) waitstates, but this is not
important. The
|> >main thing is that the controller is capable to cope with even the fastest
diskdrives.
|> >
|>
|> I could tell you some stories about early TTs and their SCSI performance,
|> but since the motherboard has now been modified it's not really worth it.
|>
|> >Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
|>
|> Mathew
|>
|> | Mathew Lodge | "Baldrick, are the words 'I have a cunning
plan' |
|> | mjl-b@minster.york.ac.uk | heading towards this conversation with ill
|
|> | Summer: lodge%alsys@uknet | deserved confidence?" -- Blackadder III
|
I suggest you take a look in a Motorola 68030 manual and read a little about
this. As every other manufactorer, Atari have to follow certain rules set by
Motorola if they want their 68030 based computer to work at all. The TT have
a asynchronous bus, which is not clocked with either a 16MHz or a 32MHz clock.
Repeat after me: The 68030 _does not have_ a clocked bus.
|> >The 68030 in the TT are reading from
|> >TT-Fastram in the burst-modus, which is as fast as it can be.
If you find this hard to belive, I suggest you send your letters to Motorola
and ask them for more information on the MC68030.
Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 03:37:57 GMT
From: lll-winken!aunro!ersys!mforget@ames.arpa (Michel Forget)
Subject: DESKTOP.INF - How do I install two or more extensions for a file?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello,
How do I edit the DESKTOP.INF file so that it recognizes two (or three)
filename extensions for a particular application? For example, I would
like to pass .LZH and .ARC files to ArcShell by installing it as an
application. Another example might be installing an alternate text
viewer to recognize .TXT, .DOC, .ME, .1ST, and .INF extensions. Someone
posted a method to do this a while back, but I didn't need it at the time
so I didn't save it. Not very bright on my part...:)
<< ------------------------------------------ >>
<< mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >>
<< ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >>
<< Michel Forget >>
<< "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, >>
<< for they are not happy campers!" - UNKNOWN >>
<< ------------------------------------------ >>
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 06:26:11 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!ukma!wupost!usc!apple!uokmax!kllove@arizona.edu (Kenneth L
Love)
Subject: GFA Basic
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does anybody have any comments on the latest version of GFA BASIC
(v. 3.5?)? I have v2.5 and its manual doesn't give any kind of tutorial
or decent examples of using it.
I've got an ARCed file somewhere that is supposed to do this. Is it any
good? What version does it cover?
How does GFA v3.5 compare to v2.5? Is the manual improved? Can I compile
my source code? Will v2.5 code load into v3.5 and work without much (if
any) modification?
Too many questions,
Kenneth Love
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 20:33:10 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!hsdndev!spdc
c!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!psinntp!rodan.acs.syr.edu!ggreenbe@arizo
na.edu (Gerald Greenberg)
Subject: High density floppies and emulators
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does anybody know if any of the ways to get a 1.4 meg floppy
to work on an ST will also allow the floppy to work as a high
density floppy with Spectre in Mac mode and/or with ATSpeed in
msdos mode?
Thanks very much.
--Gerry
ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
------------------------------
Date: 29 Nov 91 20:37:21 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think
.com!hsdndev!spdcc!dirtydog.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!psinntp!rodan.acs.syr.e
du!ggreenbe@arizona.edu (Gerald Greenberg)
Subject: Pixel Wonder vs. Autoswitch Overscan
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Can anybody out there compare these two products and comment
on their relative worth? They seem to be priced pretty much
the same, around $100...I know Overscan is supposed to work
with ATSpeed in msdos mode, but I don't know about Pixel
Wonder. Do either do anything for Spectre display? Also, I
believe Overscan is now only plug-in, whereas Pixel Wonder
needs some soldering.
Thanks in advance.
--Gerry
ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 01:51:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!agate!apple!ne
tcomsv!seitz@arizona.edu (Matthew Seitz)
Subject: REVIEW: MULTIDESK DELUXE
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I recently purchased MULTIDESK DELUXE and thought I'd share my opinions.
Originally, I bought this to save memory. I like having GRAMSLAM loaded as
an accessory so that I can use it from within WORD PERFECT. Unfortunately,
GRAMSLAM is a memory pig (as accessories go). So when I saw that MULTIDESK
DELUXE allowed loading accessories after boot-time, I thought I could save
the 160K RAM.
Unfortunately, things didn't work quite the way I expected. While you can
load accessories at any time, you have to reserve enough memory to hold
the largest one in advance. Therefore, I not only had the RAM usage for
MULTIDESK, I had to also reserve a chunk of RAM large enough to hold GRAMSLAM.
I ended up using more memory rather than less.
However, the advantage is that I can use that same RAM to load other DAs when
I'm not using GRAMSLAM. Before, I couldn't load up any other accessories
because STALKER and GRAMSLAM used up so much memory. Now I have a whole
list of accessories I can use without any additional RAM overhead. This is
a great improvement.
Sumarry: It's not a miracle worker. However, if you understand its limitations
this is a great product. I recommend it.
--
Matthew Seitz
seitz@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 03:06:59 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agat
e!apple!uokmax!kllove@arizona.edu (Kenneth L Love)
Subject: ST Basic and Copyrights
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I recently purchased an old game (Bridge 4.0 by Artworx; for a buck)
written in the ORIGINAL ST Basic. The program version is 011486. Is there
a later version available (of Bridge, not basic)?
The code uses GOTOs heavily and isn't very structured (and is very slow,
besides).
What I want to do is take the code and convert it to a "GOTOless" form.
Next, I want to take that code and convert it to Lattice C (v5) code.
Compile it, ARC (or LZH) it, and redistribute it as PD or shareware.
Can I legally do this? Is Artworx still around? Would I get sued? What
if I just used the compiled code for myself? Should I talk to an attorney
before doing anything?
Please reply with e-mail.
Thanx for your help,
Kenneth Love
kllove@uokmax.ecn.uoknor.edu
PS: George R. Woodside, please contact me by e-mail.
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 01:43:23 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!spool.mu.edu!agat
e!apple!netcomsv!seitz@arizona.edu (Matthew Seitz)
Subject: Text Windows for Pascal
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does Hi-Speed or Prospero Pascal include high-level text window routines, along
the lines of Modula-2's TextWindow library? I'm looking for something like
OpenWindow( handle, location/size ): Opens a window, returns a handle.
Write( handle, string ): Writes a string to the window identified by handle.
--
Matthew Seitz
seitz@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 03:32:26 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!lll-winken!aunro!apss!ersys!mforget@arizona.
edu (Michel Forget)
Subject: Text Windows for Pascal
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
seitz@netcom.COM (Matthew Seitz) writes:
> Does Hi-Speed or Prospero Pascal include high-level text window routines, alo
> the lines of Modula-2's TextWindow library? I'm looking for something like
>
> OpenWindow( handle, location/size ): Opens a window, returns a handle.
> Write( handle, string ): Writes a string to the window identified by handle.
>
>
> --
> Matthew Seitz
> seitz@netcom.com
Personal Pascal provides what you are looking for. I'm not sure about
the HiSoft HiSpeed Pascal, but it probably does. I've used Personal
Pascal for a long time, and it is the best language I've encountered so
far on any computer. It is easy to learn, yet still gives me access to
the entire system. Personal Pascal doesn't allow for in-code assembly,
but it will allow you to use routines compiled with the Digital Research
Object File format (in both C and Assembly). I've never used this
feature, though.
<< ------------------------------------------ >>
<< mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >>
<< ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >>
<< Michel Forget >>
<< "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, >>
<< for they are not happy campers!" - UNKNOWN >>
<< ------------------------------------------ >>
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 13:57:15 GMT
From: umich!terminator!usenet@yale.arpa (Atari Archive Robot)
Subject: Weekly Posting of New Stuff
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
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------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 01:40:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!
spool.mu.edu!agate!apple!netcomsv!seitz@arizona.edu (Matthew Seitz)
Subject: WERCS and Personal Pascal
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does Michtron/Hi-Soft's WERCS produce PERSONAL PASCAL compatible resource
and include files? Is WERCS compatible with Hi-Speed or Prospero Pascal?
--
Matthew Seitz
seitz@netcom.com
------------------------------
Date: 30 Nov 91 04:46:32 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!milano!cactus.org!covert@arizona.edu (Richard
Covert)
Subject: Why ASV Is A Dead No Future Product
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I contend that Atari's ASV (Atari Sys V UNIX) is a product
with no future.
1) The Tt030's native (Atari original equipment) color resolution
is too coarse to support X Windows. Proof of this fact is that
Atari requires the user of their monochrome monitor, and does
not support ASV under color. A monochrome only X windows
workstation is not a viable commerical product.
2) The TT030 is underpowered, but overpriced. The Tt030 may run a
a CPU rate of 33MHz but it memory access is restricted to a slow
16MHz. And UNIX is VERY VERY memory intensive. Hence, the TT030
should be better classed as a 16MHz 68030 machine. Which is too
slow for X Windows, esecpically w/o a video graphics accelerator
card to offload the video from the 68030 CPU.
3) The TT030 is overpriced. A Base TT0304/40 is about 2 grand. Add
1 grand for the monochrome monitor, another grand for more memory (
can't even use cheap memory 'cause you gotta buy an expensive memory
board from Atari to add more memory), and another 2 grand for the
ASV and you are up to 6 grand. And that is for an Atari computer
whose resale value is pratically NIL. Ever try to sell a used
Mega ST recently? A glut of those babies on the market now.
4) No Big Name Vendors will support the TT/ASV. Proof of this is the
fact that Atari can't provide a commerically supported C/C++
compiler for the ASV. Instead Atari is merely packaging the public
domain FSF GNU compilers. While these are fine tools, they should
be classed as "experimental" and aren't commerically supported.
Do you really think that you can call someone at Atari to get help
when you find a project killing bug in the GNU compilers? I think not.
Also, since Atari Corp has never shown any inclination to market
the ST/TT here in the USA, the ST/TT market is practically dead
here. Thus, current vendors are dropping the ST/TT from their
lines. This means that you will not see new commerically supported
products for the TT/ASV either.
5) No third party support for peripherals. In this day and age of
650 meabyte magneto-optical read/write disk drives, and 1.3
gigabyte Digital Audio Tape drives, where are these for the
TT/ASV? They don't exist for the ASV and given Atari's proven
track history of non-support here in the USA, you won't see them
sold here either. Maybe in Germany but not in the USA.
6) ASV won't support TT programs. It is a known fact that the ASV
package can't run TOS/GEM programs. So, that means exiting UNIX,
which is no simply task in of iis self, and rebooting into TOS.
All other systems (SCO UNIX and MAC A/UX) allow their native OS
programs to run from within their UNIX. But once again Atari
Corp is too little and too late.
so, if you care to argue the viability of the Atari ASV package
please respond to my six points above. But remember the market place
is the final judge and if ASV doesn't sell it won't last!! No one
is going to buy ASV just to play games (and we all know that the
TT030 is just a fancy games machine !!).
sincerely yours for the flaming
--
Richard E. Covert covert@cactus.org
CACTUS ..!cs.utexas.edu!cactus.org!covert
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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