Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 92 Issue 008
Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 8 Jan 92 Volume 92 : Issue 8
Today's Topics:
1040st or mega st
Book for a beginner with the 1040STE
email address of John Perry(?) lost
GDB for ATARI-MINIX
gnu question
IBM software emulator (3 msgs)
Neural Network software
New Heat & Serve C compiler
OKIMATE 20 Printer Driver for Calamus
PD C compilers for ST
Populace help (was Re: The best game...)
RFI: Music Tutor Programs
STBook (Notebook computer)
The best game... (3 msgs)
TT/030 why the ST RAM?
Using an Atari 1224 Color Monitor on a Mac LC?
WANTED: Atari ST power supplies
Want to buy a disc drive
Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic
cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed
out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages
to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU.
Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to
Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list
instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored.
If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly
from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please
contact the redistributor, not us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 21:48:19 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!think.com!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!en.
ecn.purdue.edu!meehan@arizona.edu (Michael J Meehan)
Subject: 1040st or mega st
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi all,
I am looking to buy a 1040 st or a mega st, and need to know some things:
{1} would I be able to use the diskdrive, monitor, mouse, and printer
from my old 520st (I don't know model #s, but they are from the first
year or two of the 520's existence)
{2} Will the software run from my old 520 st
on the 1040 st's or mega's
{3} Is there a difference between the different lines (1040STFM and 1040STe and
whatever else there is...)
{4} Please also include anything that you think may help me in my decision.
( I will be using the computer to play/write video games...
Dungeon master type stuff...
- and - writing some C++ application programs.)
Thank you in advance...
Mike Meehan meehan@en.ecn.purdue.edu
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 14:07:15 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!ztivax!gemibusi@uunet.uu.net (Guenter Klas)
Subject: Book for a beginner with the 1040STE
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm looking for a good book concerning the 1040STE for a real beginner. How to
use the it, with an explanation of the menu, the capabilities of it ...
It has to be in english. (To get a german one is no problem.)
Thank you for your help,
Uwe
Mail address:
seidel@ztivax.uucp or
seidel@sn1.zfe.siemens.de
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 13:43:41 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!darwin.sura.net!Sirius.dfn.de!ira.uka.d
e!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu (Lars Michael)
Subject: email address of John Perry(?) lost
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Sorry this may not the best place for such an article,
but I've lost the email address of the guy who asked
me about CPX.
Hi John!
If you read this please email me again.
Thanx,
---
Larry
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | | | | |
| Lars "Mr. GIF" Michael | | | | "Down with ATARI, |
| Graduate Student of Computer Science | / | \ Long live the ST !" |
| at University of Erlangen/Germany | / | \ |
+------------+---------------------------+----------------------------------+
| Irc: Pit | When I'll grow up, I wanna have a really big signature !!! |
+------------+--------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 15:12:54 GMT
From: news.mentorg.com!lucv@uunet.uu.net (Luc Verbist)
Subject: GDB for ATARI-MINIX
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hoi ...
If ported gas-138, gcc-1.40 and the speficed libraries
to atari-minix (based on the work done by Bammi,
thanks). But I wonder their is a debugger ?
Can somebody give some hints ?
Please mail to: luc_verbist@mentorg.com
Luc Verbist
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Jan 92 13:17:21 EST
From: Brian Jepson <IBY223@URIACC.URI.EDU>
Subject: gnu question
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This may be a naive question, but I'll ask anyway. Being new to this thing of
telecommunications, I have been coming across references to gnu in the atari
ftp sites. I know that gnu's not U**X, but that's all I know.
* is it available for the atari st?
* what are the system requirements?
* will Ford and Arthur ever escape from the clutches
of the Vegan snow lizard?
Find out... in the next unedifying epizode of...
Brian Jepson
IBY223@URIACC.URI.EDU
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jan 92 23:04:22 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.co
lumbia.edu!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!flatlin!cutie!pmh@arizona.edu (Patrick M.
Hausen)
Subject: IBM software emulator
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <52467@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
> Bjarne Pohlers explained why it would be too difficult to create a
> "cross compiler" (I know, wrong term, but close to what I mean) that
> would take an IBM program and create a runnable 68000 version of
> the same thing...
>
> Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does an emulator work then..?
>
> Doesn't an emulator simply substitute the 68000 machine instructions for
> the binary 8088 instructions, somewhat like a BASIC intrepreter
> substitutes groups of machine instructions for tokens as it encounters
> them..?
>
> Instead of simply executing the 68000 instructions as the IBM program
> is scanned, why not store them for later running at full speed..?
>
> I understand the difficulties involved with data being mixed into the
> program, but how then does an emulator handle it..?
A hardware emulator consits mainly of an Intel CPU.
There are 3 ways for a DOS-program to execute hardware dependent tasks.
(1) issue a call to the DOS operating system (via INT21)
(2) issue a call to the BIOS of the machine
(3) directly access hardware registers
So you can imagine how the emulation is done?
- Instructions like "move this to there" are simply executed by the Intel CPU.
- DOS calls are executed by the Intel CPU, DOS itself calls the BIOS to access
the hardware.
- BIOS calls ... hmm. The manufacturer of the emulator has to provide some
kind of hybrid BIOS that takes the call from the Intel CPU, enables the
MC68000 and accesses the harddisk for example.
- The most difficult part to emulate is direct screen memory or I/O port
access. On the emulators I know there's some kind of memory watchdog, that
generates an interrupt when certain adresses are used. The interrupt
handling routine in the emulator software examines what the program tries
to do (write something into screen memory in most cases) and does something
that has the same effect using the MC68000 in most cases.
Of course emulation _can_ be done in software. What is impossible is to
write some kind of compiler that compiles an IBM program into an ST program
since you can't tell which part of the program is code and which part is data
_at_compiletime_. (This would be equivalent to solving the halting problem
which is well known to be impossible.)
Emulation in software or hardware can to a certain extent be done
_at_runtime_ - that's the point.
There's an emulation software for the ST that works quite nicely, but, since
"translation" has to be done at runtime it achieves only half the speed of
an XT with even slower screen output.
I think, software emulation is only useful on a TT and I'd really like to
see a good emulator - I would immediately buy it.
A friend of mine runs Soft-PC on his 68020 Macintosh - really good.
Hope, that explained something. I tried to keep my response short.
Cheers, Paddy
--
||| Patrick M. Hausen | phone : +49 721 699234 (voice and carrier)
||| Gerwigstr. 11 | e-mail: pmh@cutie.ka.sub.org (UUCP)
/ | \ D-7500 Karlsruhe 1, Germany | uk9u@dkauni2 (BITNET)
"Ich werde kein Star - nein, ich werde eine Legende." (Freddy Mercury)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 14:51:31 GMT
From: psinntp!mpoint!ritz@uunet.uu.net (Chris Mauritz)
Subject: IBM software emulator
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan7.192114.11576@wuphys.wustl.edu> petcher@wuphys.UUCP (Donald
N. Petcher) writes:
>While we are talking about IBM emulators, is there a 386 emulator with
>VGA graphics capabilities (assuming you have a VGA monitor/multisync) yet
>available for the ST/TT, or is one in development? I am most interested
>in the external type such as Supercharger. Thanks.
If you're interested in a hardware add-on for the emulation, your best
bet is probably an Amiga 2000/3000. They feature IBM style expansion
slots in addition to the Amiga slots. Commodore sells something they
call a bridgeboard which can be popped into one of these slots and
shazam, you have a PC clone.
On the ST side, I haven't heard of a 386 add-on, though I don't suspect
that it would be much more difficult to produce one than it is to make
the 286 emulator. Actually, they are not emulators at all since they
use an actual Intel chip to get the job done. Regarding VGA graphics,
that might pose a problem since the ST isn't capable of VGA graphics
resolutions (well, it can do the original VGA, but 800x600 and 1024x768
are the most common now) in native mode so how can you emulate it?
With the price of 286/386sx laptops falling rapidly, you might be better
served if you buy one of those instead of trying to kludge one up
on your ST.
Whether or not, this applies to the TT, I don't know since I haven't been
following the TT very closely. I'm sure someone who does know will comment.
Cheers,
Chris
--
------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz |Meetpoint Station BBS - Public Access Unix
ritz@msb.com |(718)899-0662 v.32/v.32bis/v.42bis 9600b
Copyright (C) 1991 |Join us...We're friendly dammit! :-)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 22:06:07 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!qt.cs.
utexas.edu!@arizona.edu (Oke S)
Subject: IBM software emulator
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Yes, there is now a 386SX emulator (by Vortex, I think)
Simon.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 14:56:42 GMT
From: psinntp!mpoint!ritz@uunet.uu.net (Chris Mauritz)
Subject: Neural Network software
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan8.053521.3770@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
as666@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Jonathan Roy) writes:
>
>If anyone knows of some public domain Neural Network software for the
>ST, please let me know. The only program I'm aware of at all is "Neural Network
>Construction Set", a commercial offering. Also, if anyone knows of some good
>IBM Neural Network software that will run under PC Ditto (Speed doesn't
>matter), I'd appreciate information on that as well. Thank you.
Good luck trying to find a freebie neural net program. I don't think you'll
have much luck. On the PC side there are a few programs available that are
software only which range in price from $100-1000. I even saw a package
for about $200 that ran a neural net based on Excel spreadsheets. Whether
or not any of this stuff works on PC Ditto, I have no idea. When I had an
ST, I had PC Ditto and found it to be quite compatible, but VERY slow.
Regards,
Chris
--
------------------------------------+------------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz |Meetpoint Station BBS - Public Access Unix
ritz@msb.com |(718)899-0662 v.32/v.32bis/v.42bis 9600b
Copyright (C) 1991 |Join us...We're friendly dammit! :-)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 18:39:10 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake
!steve@arizona.edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: New Heat & Serve C compiler
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
If you peek in comp.binaries.atari.st, you'll see that Ian Lepore's
``Heat and Serve'' version of Sozobon C is beginning to move across
the network.
This version is especially good for beginners and anyone interested
in running the compiler directly from the GEM Desktop.
It's been tested fairly extensively on STs, but not at all on TTs.
We received one vague report of a problem with INSTALL.PRG, the
automatic installation/configuration program, from a TT user who
is a GEnie sysop. If any TT users could elaborate on this, please send
a note to me and/or Mike Dorman <MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU> so it can
be forwarded to Lepore.
--
Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota <steve@thelake.mn.org>
Land of lutefisk, ice castles and jumper cables
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 14:18:56 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!paci
fic.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!bu2.bu.edu!bu.edu!m2c!garbo.ucc.umass.edu!tita
n.ucc.umass.edu!s4085368@ (Fred Hoffer)
Subject: OKIMATE 20 Printer Driver for Calamus
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi, I am looking for an Okimate 20 printer Driver for use with Calamus on the
Atari St. Does anyone know where I could get one?? If so, please send me
mail to: s4085368@titan.ucc.umass.edu
Thank You
Fred
--
/*************************************************************\
* Fred Hoffer @ University of Massachusetts Amherst MA *
* Internet: s4085368@titan.ucc.umass.edu *
* #25 UMASS Basketball Division I Record: 11-2 *
* Next Opponent: West Virginia in the CURRY HICKS CAGE *
/*************************************************************\
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 17:25:54 GMT
From: uunet.ca!geac!censor!isgtec!ken@uunet.uu.net (Ken Newman)
Subject: PD C compilers for ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <12338@star.cs.vu.nl>, rfschaa@cs.vu.nl (Schaaf RF) writes:
> On the subject of (PD) C compilers: does anyone know of a C
> compiler (PD or not PD) that is able to generate fully PC
> relative code? I would like to be able to move the program
> around in memory without having to do any relocation.
The original Megamax C compiler (I believe ver. 1.1) generated PC-relative
code. This was the pre-Laser C compiler. There were lots of 32K restrictions
in the generated code though, of course, although they had a scheme where
you could explicitly force a long jump or something into a certain
module. I doubt you could still buy a copy, you would probably have to
get a used one somewhere.
- kn
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 16:59:16 GMT
From: mcrware!mwca!bill@uunet.uu.net (Bill Sheppard)
Subject: Populace help (was Re: The best game...)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan8.014029.2563@milton.u.washington.edu> iho@cac.washington.edu
writes:
>boyd@sigma.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd) writes:
>> arioch@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Brett Hurt) writes:
>> >What is your single most favorite game for the ST? And why?
>> Hmmm, I guess I would have to say that Populous has eaten up more of my time
>> than any other. [etc.]
>I've gotten to the mid 100's and can't seem to beat the computer any more.
>Any clues on how to do better?
I've seen the book "Master Populous" by longtime ANALOG writer and general
Atari supporte Clayton Walnum recently at Software Etc. and other stores -
while I didn't look inside, I suspect based on the author's reputation that it
is a must-have for any Populous owner (of which there are now _lot's_ since it
runs on ST's, Amigas, PC's, and Genesis' (Genesi?)...
--
##############################################################################
# Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill #
# Microware Systems Corporation -- OS-9 / OS-9000 / CD-RTOS -- (408)980-0201 #
############# Opinions expressed are my own and usually wrong ################
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 01:53:37 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsadlu5!smithj@hplabs.hp.com (Jim Smith)
Subject: RFI: Music Tutor Programs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi,
I'm looking for "Music Tutor" software that would run on an ST, along the
lines of the "Miracle Music Teaching System." I have a MIDI keyboard
connected to my ST, and my 6-year-old is ready to begin learning the
basics. Does anyone know of fun MIDI music educational software that would
teach the basics of keyboard playing and sight reading, etc?
Please e-mail your responses. I will post a summary if there is
sufficient response.
Thank you,
- Jim Smith
smithj@hpsad.sad.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 11:13:47 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!pyrltd!root44!praxis!cged!johnr@uunet.uu.net (John Richards)
Subject: STBook (Notebook computer)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
r0mill01@ulkyvx.louisville.edu (Robert Delius Royar) writes:
>I'm thinking of getting a laptop. For a while I'd contemplated a MAC
>PowerBook, but why should I switch from the Atari world? Most of the
>software I would use I'd write myself.
>Can someone give some details about the (long awaited) STBook?
..
> 4. What expandability (I know there is a (kind of) direct
> line to the CPU to replace the old cartridge slot, but
> what else?
I'm also interested. But I have an application running on my Mega ST which
uses the cartridge slot. It uses a cartridge as a 'dongle' - a security
device. I assume I won't be able to run this application on the STBook -
can anyone confirm this will be the case?
--
John Richards
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 15:51:46 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!sersun1!okes@uunet.uu.net (Oke S)
Subject: The best game...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I got Revenge of the Mutant Camels 2 days ago, and it looks like being one
of the best games of '92 (IMHO).
Simon.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 09:10:38 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!edcastle!robin@uunet.uu.net (R C Smith)
Subject: The best game...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <64693@ut-emx.uucp> arioch@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Brett Hurt) writes:
>What is your single most favorite game for the ST? And why?
>
>Brett
>Arioch@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
Bubble bobble:--- Great game play and good tune!!
Robin
robin@uk.ac.ed.castle
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 21:20:48 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!ub!galileo.cc.rochester.edu!uhura.cc.roches
ter.edu!lchd_ss@arizona.edu (Ling Cherd Ho)
Subject: The best game...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <16297@castle.ed.ac.uk> robin@castle.ed.ac.uk (R C Smith) writes:
>In article <64693@ut-emx.uucp> arioch@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Brett Hurt) writes:
>>What is your single most favorite game for the ST? And why?
>>
>>Brett
>>Arioch@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
>
>
>Bubble bobble:--- Great game play and good tune!!
>
>
>Robin
>robin@uk.ac.ed.castle
One of my favourite game too! Anyone know what can we do after reaching
level 100?
....
Ling CHerd
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 13:20:21 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!bcc.ac.uk!ucacmsu@uunet.uu.net (Mr Stephen R Usher)
Subject: TT/030 why the ST RAM?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan3.031017.28986@usenet.ins.cwru.edu>
aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu (Len Stys) writes:
>
>
>I've read a lot of articles on the TT/030 and David Small's 68030 SST.
>However, I still have some questions.
>
>One of my questions is why is there a need for ST RAM in these machines?
>
>Why can't they just have fastRAM?
The ST is just RAM which sits in the ST normal address space and can be used
by the video circuitary. The main reason that it is slower than Fast RAM is
that the processor has to wait for the video circuitary to get out the way
when accessing it. On the SST, the ST RAM will also be slower cos the ST
part of the machine will probably still be running at 8MHz and the RAM there
is not the fastest types you can get either.
>
>It would be great if the TT/030 could use fastRAM only to run ST
>software.
I've found on my TT that most software which runs will run in TT ram.
>
>David Small says that a reason for the 4 megs of ST RAM in his
>hardware is because video and disk have to come out of it.
>
>But why?
The hardware can only access RAM in the ST's normal address range, blame the
DMA and MMU chips in the ST.
>
>Sorry for all these questions but there is only one way that I'm
>going to learn. Thanks.
>
Steve
--
Addresses:-
JANET:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or susher@uk.ac.csm
Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or susher@csm.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 19:06:40 GMT
From: psinntp!iscnvx!laic!trimble@uunet.uu.net (Gary Trimble)
Subject: Using an Atari 1224 Color Monitor on a Mac LC?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Can an Atari 1224 color monitor be used on a Macintosh LC? Please email
or post answers and I'll summarize.
Gary Trimble
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 18:42:34 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake
!steve@arizona.edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: WANTED: Atari ST power supplies
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm looking for a (cheap!) replacement power supply for an old-style
520ST (external black power brick) and an internal power supply for
a 520STFM.
I'm running thelake on borrowed electrons, and I have to give them
back. :-)
If you have a spare or know of a cheaper source than Best Electronics,
please send me a note via email.
--
Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota <steve@thelake.mn.org>
Land of lutefisk, ice castles and jumper cables
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jan 92 15:34:05 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watcgl!electro.electro.com!ignac@arizo
na.edu (Ignac Kolenko)
Subject: Want to buy a disc drive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan7.180257.4033@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu writes:
>There is a file on atari.archive.umich.edu called ibmdrive.lzh, which
>describes how to hook generic 3.5" and 5.25" drives to the ST. It includes
>instructional text, diagrams in .PI3 format, and some small programs to
>make the 5.25" seek correctly. The big concern with getting a replacement
>floppy is to avoid the media change problem. Some drives will not recognize
[stuff deleted]
could some kind soul please email me this file, or upload it to
comp.sys.binaries.st since i just replaced my 3.5" floppy (bit the biscuit
after 6 years) and i am having the media change problem. thanx!
(i don't have ftp access) :-( :-(
--
========Ignac A. Kolenko (The Ig)=======watmath!watcgl!electro!ignac=========
"Blowed up REAL good!" - Big Jim McBob (Celebrity Blowup - SCTV)
=============================================================================
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
