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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 540
Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 18 Oct 91 Volume 91 : Issue 540
Today's Topics:
"I need SIMMs for my Mac"
ARC 5.xx
Atari Abaq
Batch Files?
Delirious demo
Font addresses
Good places to anon-ftp atari-pd-sof (2 msgs)
Gravis MouseStick
Help wanted...
Mega STe
Need Comm Program Recommendation
TeX joy, LaTeX woes.
Twister (was Re: Crikey) (2 msgs)
Wanted german mag: ST-computer
What's been goin' on since 1988?
whining HD
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 08:02:21 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: "I need SIMMs for my Mac"
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I nearly drowned in my bath when I read:
In article <3105@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
>I nearly fell off my chair laughing when I read:
>england@milton.u.washington.edu (Gregory Miller) writes:
>>Just go to someone who supports
>>the mac and tell them you want FOUR 1 meg SIMM modules (I'd get 80ns ones)
>>for your Mac (don't admit that you have an ST, they'll claim that they
>>don't know what you're talking about!) and pop them in. Or you can do what
>>I did; call Microprocessors Unlimited, and tell them the same story; i.e.
>>you need FOUR 1megX8 SIMMs 80 nanosecond speed, for your MAC.
>
>Why wouldn't you just tell them the truth? Are you so ashamed of
>owning an Atari computer?
Ashamed? Well no. But when one looks at Atari's 'achievements' in the computer
world one can hardly be proud either.
>Do you really expect to get looks of leprous contempt when you say the
>word "Atari" at a place where you might buy SIMMs? You shouldn't.
Maybe not in a chip merchants but probably in a Mac dealership. I doubt a
Mac dealer will be very helpful once he knows the SIMMs are not for a Mac.
Spectre owners proudly tell Mac dealerships they want such-and-such for their
Mac emulator but after being treated like a moron they generally pretend to
have a Mac.
>You might get a surprised look as the uninformed chip merchant wonders why
>you'd need SIMMs for your video game.
Which in the UK is what Atari sells the ST as.
Why do you think this way?
Mmm? Perhaps there is a clue in in *YOUR* signature :-) x 1E3
> ||| Ken Badertscher (ames!atari!kbad)
> ||| Atari Corp. System Software Engine
> / | \ #include <disclaimer>
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 14:26:29 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!fis
cher-michael@arizona.edu (Michael Fischer)
Subject: ARC 5.xx
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Oct18.075336.786@elroy.jpl.nasa.gov>
hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes:
>So, are any of you folks still using ARC 5.21, or have you all moved on to
>ARC 6, LHArc, ZIP, or ZOO? This is a little more than idle curiosity,
>obviously. I've rewritten a fair amount of the ARC 5.21 code and compiled
>with gcc, making it twice as fast now as the previous version for all
>operations. It is also twice as fast as ARC 6.02 for unsqueezing, and about
>20-30% faster for uncrunching old-style crunch files. It tends to be from 5%
>slower to 10% faster than ARC 6.02 for regular crunch and uncrunch. There was
>also a bug in the old squash code, which is now fixed. (Actually, the Lempel
>Zev crunch/uncrunch is *much* faster even than ARC 6 or Unix compress, but the
>Huffman squeeze pass adds a couple seconds to the run time... And I still find
>lots of files that compress better with a squeeze, so it still seems worthwhile
>to keep the code.)
>
>The other reason for the question - is it worthwhile to port ARC 6 to Unix?
>Now that there is a pd ZIP for Unix, I'm not so sure...
>--
> -- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
If people are going to use ARC 6, then yes, I would like a version
that runs on Unix. I don't know if there is any reason to use ARC 6
given the availability of ZOO 2.1.
--
==================================================
| Michael Fischer <fischer-michael@cs.yale.edu> |
==================================================
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 18:46:46 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!tamsun!tamuts!n160ao@arizona
.edu (Mark Lehmann)
Subject: Atari Abaq
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This is an old and probably dead issue.
What happened to the Atari Abaq.
A friend told me putting 10 of these Atari Abaqs together would give a
user more power than a Cray Y-MP computer. He then proceeded to inform
me how Atari products are so good, that Atari will own the computer market
by 1989. I even saw a picture of the Atari Abaq in an atari magazine.
Do anyone have the scoop on this?
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 12:19:59 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!dcl-cs!gdt!hs0tc@uunet.uu.net (T Cooke)
Subject: Batch Files?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Okay I have a problem.
Having used MSDOS for a while and gotten used to the batch files available,
is there any similar process on an Atari ST?
Failing that, I'm looking for a way to boot up certain programs only,
depending on the screen resolution. All help's appreciated!
Thanks in advance,
Tim Cooke
hs0tc@uk.ac.bath.gdt
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 07:21:54 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!prle!prles2!cstw18!meulenbr@uunet.uu.net (Frans
Meulenbroeks)
Subject: Delirious demo
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Jan.Willekens@p12.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org (Jan Willekens) writes:
>In a message of <04 Oct 91 18:51:50>, sytang@lamar.ColoState.EDU
>(2:320/100.1) writes:
[message omitted]
>If you are talking about The Delirious Demo III, then yes, it needs an STE to
>run on, since it is an all STE demo.
I looked at Delirious Demo 2.75 which I got from atari.archive, and that
one does not run on my TT, despite the fact that it has the same periphs
as the STe. Probably 68000 specific interrupt vector handling....
Also I checked out the finale_p[12].msa from atari.archive. This one is
completely dead on the TT. Delirious demo anyway says it is loading
and then hangs (with floppy light on).
Has anyone gotten these to run on a TT?
Or are there perhaps other interesting demos floating around for the TT?
--
Frans Meulenbroeks (meulenbr@prl.philips.nl)
Philips Research Laboratories
------------------------------
Date: 17 Oct 91 14:56:44 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!horga!reswi!aslan!clash@uunet.uu.net (Oliver Graf)
Subject: Font addresses
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hya buddies!
Who can tell me how to get the address of the TOS-font independent from
the TOS version? I already know how to get it using TOS 1.02, but now I
have TOS 1.04 and the addresses are not the same. I tried to get it by
testing with GfA-Basic but I had no success. I couldn't get the address
for the font used by GEM (not GDOS!).
There are two addresses, one for TOS output (like PRINT in GfA-Basic),
the other for GEM output (like TEXT in GfA-Basic) and a third one for the
8*8 pixel font. That address would be interesting for me, too.
Looking forward for your answer...
Oliver
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 14:26:16 GMT
From: news.cs.indiana.edu!pwp%iuvax.cs.indiana.edu@purdue.edu (Paul Purdom)
Subject: Good places to anon-ftp atari-pd-sof
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Why do people keep asking for articles to be posted only in English? A lot of
the action on the ST takes place in Europe. It seems to be that it is best to
let people post in what ever language they know. That way those of us who can
read it can make use of it, and the rest of us can easily ignore it.
Be that as it may, this group does have a lot more readers of English than of
other languages.
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 15:31:47 GMT
From: infonode!tensmekl@uunet.uu.net (Kermit Tensmeyer)
Subject: Good places to anon-ftp atari-pd-sof
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Oct18.092628.22072@news.cs.indiana.edu> pwp@iuvax.cs.indiana.edu
(Paul Purdom) writes:
>Why do people keep asking for articles to be posted only in English? A lot of
>the action on the ST takes place in Europe. It seems to be that it is best to
>let people post in what ever language they know. That way those of us who can
>read it can make use of it, and the rest of us can easily ignore it.
>
>Be that as it may, this group does have a lot more readers of English than of
>other languages.
And some English speakers actually read and speak other languagues as well.
some of use speak American as well as English. German seems pretty straight
forward compared to russian or arabic.
--
Kermit Tensmeyer | Intergraph Corporation
SomeWhere in the South (it's a Civilized place) | "It's only MY opinion"
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 15:37:27 GMT
From: sae!malay@uunet.uu.net (Bob Malay)
Subject: Gravis MouseStick
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi all,
Anybody out there use this thing, yet? If so, how much did it cost and where
did you get it?? Are there any US vendors selling this item? I ran across an
ad for the Gravis Joystick but I'm not sure if its the same thing as the
MouseStick.
Bob Malay
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 16:10:23 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!midiline!jared@arizona.edu
('286 Highlander)
Subject: Help wanted...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
After selling my MEGA ST4 awhile back and getting into the
IBM-compatible market (my need for "more software, easier" was the cause
for this rash move), I've finally realized my heart was born and raised
on the ST, and therefore, destiny calls my back to it...
Hence, I am asking help to assist me in choosing out an STe system. What
is the most affordable setup I can get my hands on? Can a 1040STe be
upgraded to 4Mb? If so how much, and more wuestions like this are on my
tongue... :-) Please reply in Email, if possible... thanks!
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 11:17:56 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.c
tr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!iraul1!irau26!s_grunwa@arizona.edu (Knut Grunwald)
Subject: Mega STe
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
They are about 50 to 70% faster in practice. You notice the difference
at once, at least it you have worked a bit and then try an old ST.
Compatibility problems:
The STe scrolling and screen flip. This will be fixed by Atari.
This problem does mainly occur with games on the monochrome screen
and has never occured (by me) with application like text or DTP
programs or compilers.
An other Problem is the position of the TOS-ROMs. Since they are now
256k the address has moved, which may fool poorly programmed
applications. (unfortunately this may be your favorite PD-Program).
The rest of the machine is fine, but here are some tips:
Try to get a bigger HardDisk. e.g. Buy the machine without HD and get
a 100 MB Quantum or Connor. Esspecially the Connor reduces the noise
substantial. The 48 MB will fill up very fast.
Try to get it with 4 MB or make the upgrade with SIMM's at once.
2 MB are fine, but 4 MB are better and the extra cost is not much
compared to the machines price.
Try to get it with the 68881 included. It costs only 99 DM in Germany
and, if you use TurboC 2.0 it is supported. Any floating point
application benefits from it and the price is like the memories price
realy low. I measured a speedup of 2 for +,_,*,/ and >4 for sin,cos.
That's a lot for 99 DM.
If will never need floating point leave it out, but think about it.
The packet price may make the upgrades even cheaper, since a lot of
shop give you percentage on the device, but not on parts. Also changing
the Harddisk against a bigger one is not always possible or you will
have a big loss.
Knut Grunwald, s_grunwa@ira.uka.de
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 91 14:19:19 CDT
From: Charlie Turner <CHARLIE%UMVMA.bitnet@UMRVMB.UMR.EDU>
Subject: Need Comm Program Recommendation
To: atarst-l@uiucvmd, info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
First, my thanks to the people who replied to my question about STs
reading IBM-type diskettes. I got that working and now am able to
FTP download ST files via an IBM-type PC which is on our LAN. This
leads to my next question:
I would appreciate hearing any recommendations for an ST modem
communications package. While I would prefer getting something that
is shareware from an FTP site, it would be useful to know about good
commercial packages too.
One requirement is having VT100 (or above) terminal emulation, since
I need to dial into a mainframe system for my Email. The ability to
handle ANSI color codes would be nice (and perhaps that will come
along with VT100 emulation).
Another requirement is doing file transfers using the more modern
protocols, like Ymodem-batch, or Zmodem. Kermit will be needed too for
transfers to/from the mainframe.
Finally, my ST system is a basic one having only one diskette drive
and no HD. Hopefully this won't preclude running one of the really
good comm packages!
Thanks.
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 08:52:35 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!warwick!nott-cs!dpg@uunet.uu.net (Dave Gymer)
Subject: TeX joy, LaTeX woes.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <4892@tamsun.TAMU.EDU> n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann) writes:
>[Stuff on installing TeX deleted]
>... OK--- I know, the old folder limit,
>FOLDR300.PRG was to small, I should be happy now filesystem damage was done.
>I up it to FOLDR750.PRG and start over. BINGO, I get more fonts in, but then
>TEX stops building LaTeX will another font.
>
>Where do I go from here? I have 2.5Mg of RAM and 8Mg free on the hard
>disk. You LaTeX people, have you built the LaTeX.fmt files?
I presume your using a versoin of TOS prior to 1.4? I don't remember any of
these problems when I tried to build TeX (my config, 4meg STe, TOS 1.60, at
the time, about 10 meg disk space).
If you can find a machine with TOS 1.4, try it on that.
--
/* 'Grave' Dave Gymer --------- Internet: dpg@Cs.Nott.AC.UK *\
+* 42 St Marys Park, Louth, Lincolnshire, LN11 0EF, England *+
+* Olivier's Law: "Experience is something you don't get *+
\*-------------------------- until just after you need it." */
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 08:16:47 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Twister (was Re: Crikey)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9110161209.AA14433@caticsuf.cati.CSUFresno.EDU>
jpickar@caticsuf.cati.csufresno.edu writes:
>Oh really now. Last i checked the only way to send a format track command
>to the FDC was through the DMA system or through flopfmt(), and flopfmt()
>definitely does NOT support track skewing. and isn't the DMA system
>something undocumented anyway?
Well you don't 'check' very often. As hundreds of others will also tell you,
Flopfmt has supported skewing since TOS 1.2. The DMA system *IS* well
documented.
>>The fact that several European hackers could format 82-track disks, while not
>>all stock 520/140ST disk drives could read 82-tracks, implies 'bad'
programming
>>technique'.
>
>Hrm. Well, now maybe we should all point the finger at Atari for setting its
>sights too low =;~)
Go and ask Teac/Sony/Chinon etc for an 82 track drive.
>In commercial-type software i would consider it prudent, if not _de rigueur_,
>to include some sort of a switch so that those of us who can use a hardware
>trick can, and those of you who can't, don't. And if i choose not to include
>such a switch in my demo, then Just Change The Channel (tm).
Now that's sounds better.
>>Fine. Just don't expect me to be impressed if it
>
>>a) doesn't work on my Mega 4 ST
>
>If not, blame Atari.... your Mega4 isn't 100% back compatible with the ST.
>So why should i even try? =:~)
Within Atari's specification a Mega 4 is backwardly compatible.
>In conclusion, i've two things to say to the general net.populace:
>
>1) Had Dave Small been the first to use overscan, you'd be oohing and ahhing
>over it to this day. (of course, it probably would have been a little bit
>more reliable as well, but still...)
I think he would have been the first to get a zero-credibilty rating.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 18:08:08 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!isgate!krafla!adamd@arizona.e
du (Adam David)
Subject: Twister (was Re: Crikey)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <9110161209.AA14433@caticsuf.cati.CSUFresno.EDU>
jpickar@caticsuf.cati.csufresno.edu writes:
>doesn't this take advantage of a certain bug/feature in the hardware?
>Namely, that the sector directly after the index pulse does not have to
>be numbered 1?
There is no specified order of sectors on the disk. If you wanted to, you
could format a disk with more than one sector of the same number on the same
track. The FDC picks up and uses the first one it finds irrespective of where
it is found. That's not a bug or a feature, rather the way the FDC does what it
is supposed to do.
An active imagination is necessary to find some useful way of exploiting
multiple occurences of the same sector number, and you might get into trouble
with some higher parts of the OS. The only obvious use for this (and it works)
is to have the boot sector repeated all over side0 of track00 so that if the
first one gets damaged the next one will be picked up instead, like a cat with
nine lives. (or more if it's been upgraded :-)
Don't forget to reserve the right number of sectors in the diskBPB of each copy,
and write the whole track in one go.
>And now what's going to happen, now that Western Digital isn't making
>WD1772's anymore? Will this hardware bug/feature still be present?
Feature only in the sense that it's meant to be that way. Feature in this
context usually means an unintentional inconsistency (or an accidental
improvement). I'm sure that this is part of the specification, since the main
purpose of the index pulse is to synchronise and limit the format track command
and for handling timeouts.
VLSI is still making VL1772's. There are other FDC's (most?) that don't rely
on the physical location of sector 1. In fact, I would be inclined to call it
a bug if the FDC did rely on that.
--
Adam David.
(adamd@rhi.hi.is)
------------------------------
Date: 17 Oct 91 15:55:59 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!spool.mu.edu!hri.com!snorkelwacker.mit.ed
u!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!lth.se!newsuser@arizona.edu (Jerker Nilsson)
Subject: Wanted german mag: ST-computer
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Is there anyone who can give me a clue on how to get the german mag
ST-Computer to Sweden. It seems to be impossible trough the normal channels.
Any help is valuable. Email in English, German or Swedish - PLEASE!
- Jerker Nilsson, email d91jn@efd.lth.se -
---- My opinion may change, but not the fact that I am right! ----
Insert own toughts here. The above is mine, and only mine!
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 11:55:51 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ira.uka.de!iraul1!irau
26!s_grunwa@arizona.edu (Knut Grunwald)
Subject: What's been goin' on since 1988?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I agree with the replier and want to add two things:
1. If you want to use a bigscreen, inform yourself befor buying a
Mega STe or TT (the rest is more or less out of time, since a
1040 STe with HD and at least 2 Meg is more expensive as a Mega
STe 2).
The Mega STe is a lot cheaper if you use only the normal resolution,
but the bigscreen cost a minimum of 2500.- DM and, if you have no
low price dealer near you or want service (at that price would
recommend it), i will cost about 3500,- DM. This is a lot more then
the TTM 194 price, which is about 2000,- DM (list price ?!!).
2. The TT supports expansion above 4 MB, which adds another cost
advantage at expansion. Also it include the coprozessor, which will
speed up floating point a lot. FP is used for DTP !!
3. A 16 MHZ 68000 is not near the performance of a 32 MHZ 68030. So the
TT has a lot of extra bang.
4. The Mega STE is more compatible than the TT.
So you have to make the decision before you buy one of these, because
there is no upgrade path.
I made my decision for the Mega STE, because i don't need the bigscreen
(it is nice to have one) and the compatability of the Mega is bigger.
But anytime i look at the a TT-highres-monitor i feel a bit like having
made the wrong decision, although my bank tells me just the other way
round. So think carefull, at best try both machines for some time (two
weeks or at least a project of a full day like typing in and formatting
an article or so).
Knut Grunwald, s_grunwa@ira.uka.de
Pricing in DM:
Mega STE 4 -> 2800
TT 4 without Monitor -> 3600 + VGA -> 4300
= The Mega is 1500 DM cheaper (street prices are even cheaper)
Mega STE 4 + 68881 + Protar 19'' -> 2800+100+2500..3500 -> 5400..6400
TT 4 with TTM 194 -> 3600 + 2000 -> 5600
You don't need the VGA so an extra 700 DM spare
The Mega is only 200 DM cheaper in the best case !!!!
------------------------------
Date: 18 Oct 91 14:34:06 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!cs
.yale.edu!cs.yale.edu!fischer-michael@arizona.edu (Michael Fischer)
Subject: whining HD
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Oct17.185734.28166@rodan.acs.syr.edu> ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
(Gerald Greenberg) writes:
>Does anybody have any suggestions for help with my CDC 40 meg
>HD (in an ICD FAST) setup that has worked well for a couple of
>years but has started to whine when it comes up to speed for
>ST boot-up? You see, when I start it now, it starts fine, but
>then when it clicks into the mode when it is ready for the ST,
>it starts to whine. I can get it to work by powering up and
>down a few times, but I'm wondering if there is some way to
>fix this problem more permanently? Or am I going to have a
>dead drive soon?
>Thanks,
>Gerry
>ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
>
>
I've had whining problems with two hard drives in the past. The
problem both times was the grounding brush that touches the end of the
spindle. A simple cure is to place a piece of tape on top of it, if
you can access it. This seems not to interfere with the functioning
of the brush, but it damps out the vibrations and prevents
oscillation.
--
==================================================
| Michael Fischer <fischer-michael@cs.yale.edu> |
==================================================
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
