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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 92 Issue 034
Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 22 Jan 92 Volume 92 : Issue 34
Today's Topics:
Aladin/Spectre & DOS disks
composite -> rgb
CSB: I'm stuck in the DDD
Darn brevity (4 msgs)
easter eggs
Finishing Dungeon Master (2 msgs)
FOR SALE: 1040 ST and Multisync
Grumble...
How do Cconis() and Crawcin() work together (in MWC)?
I cant get Zoo to work!
Info-Atari16 Digest V92 #32
MEGAFILE noise
MIDI out to audio
Notator and sysex
Stuff I need to sell...
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 16:33:29 MST
From: Roger B. Marks <marks@enh.nist.gov>
Subject: Aladin/Spectre & DOS disks
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>As far as I know, only Macs with something which I believe is called a
>supradrive can write MS/DOS format. I have successfully converted MS/DOS to
>Mac and vice-versa *only* on such machines. So I don't know if the software
>would help you in this case (of course, I know nothing about Aladin, so this
>might be only hot air...) :-)
------------------------------
I also don't know about Aladin, but you CAN use DOS discs with Spectre 128. If
you run Access PC, DOS discs show up on the desktop just like Spectre discs. I
suppose that DOS Mounter would also work. Even Apple File Exchange lets you use
the disks, although not in a very convenient way.
The cool thing about this is that it is also true of any Mac with a
high-density drive (SuperDrive). Thus you can get by just fine with Spectre 128
instead of the more expensive Spectre GCR (which lets you read and write Mac
disks on the ST); you just use DOS disks as the exchangeable medium.
I find it amazing that a program written to let a Mac use DOS instead of Mac
disks actually let Spectre 128 use DOS instead of Spectre disks. Mind-boggling,
even. But it does work.
------------------------------
Date: 17 Jan 92 17:10:24 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!utorvm!ryerson!eeng6801@ar
izona.edu (me)
Subject: composite -> rgb
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I don't know if this works on the Atari monitor but motorola makes an
chip that converts composite->rgb. on some st s there is a chip that
does the opposite converting rgb-> composite. It's not just a matter of
wires since atari monitor wants r,g,b,vert sync,horz sync all separate.
if you can separate those 5 signals and feed them to the atari monitor
then it should work.
Carlos Varela
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 20:39:41 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!rpi!uwm.edu!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!
fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu (Lars Michael)
Subject: CSB: I'm stuck in the DDD
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Help!
I can enter the way of the ninja. A pit (marked as 1 in the figure
below) is blocking my way and i can't close it. I tried to force a
'stone pile' to the floor plate at 2, I heard a click, but the pit
stayed open 8-)
# ## ~ upstairs
#v# ## v downstairs
# # # O F floor plate
# 1 2#O O pit
#~# ### # # wall
# F B B black flame
## #O# ###
#B#F O
B# #
BB #
## ##
#v#
I have no clue. Any help is appreciated.
---
Larry
+--------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
| lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | IRC: Pit (Mr. GIF) |
| Lars "Larry" Michael +-----------------------------+
| Graduate Student of Computer Science | When I grow up I wanna have |
| at University of Erlangen/Germany | a really *BIG* signature. |
+--------------------------------------+-----------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 17:45:06 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!sialis!
orbit!pnet51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch)
Subject: Darn brevity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
u1398@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Kosmatos Odisseas) writes:
>Why dont you turn your cache and burst mode on? Crashes?
Forgot to respond to this item, I would assume he's not using burst mode
because he doesn't have burst capable memory in his machine. as for the
caches, it depends on what software he's running. alot of crappy german hacks
don't work properly with cache's, they "crunch" their code and don't bother to
flush the cache's to a update them.
.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 17:25:02 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!umn.edu!cs.umn.edu!sialis!
orbit!pnet51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch)
Subject: Darn brevity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
u1398@JSP.UMontreal.CA (Kosmatos Odisseas) writes:
>In article <1992Jan20.213826.28501@wpi.WPI.EDU> jdutka@wpi.WPI.EDU (John Dutka)
writes:
>>In article <1992Jan17.213613.10836@syscon.rn.com> carl@syscon.rn.com (Carl
Kreider) writes:
>>>Getting whacked by Amiga lovers leads me to clarify this. A good 68030
>>>design (HP/Apollo) seems to be able to run 350 dhrystones per MHZ of clock
>>>(i.e. 7000 dhrystones at 20MHZ and 17500 drystones at 50MHZ. Next gets 280
>>>drys/MHZ, which is still good. The Amiga 3000 gets 120 drys/MHZ. These
>>
>>Well, my 3000-25 (nocache noburst) gets 6400 dhrystones, so 6400/25=256
>>drys/MHz, quite close to the NeXT. That number would be higher if I was using
>>burst mode and cache on, and not running the term program and text editor.
>>Just wanted to clarify things...
>
>Are you trying to say that your Amiga 3000-25 is faster or even close the
>speed of a 68040-25 NeXT? Obviously, either the numbers presented above are
>wrong or unfair (which it seems so to me), or the NeXT has a bad design.
>
>Why dont you turn your cache and burst mode on? Crashes?
No, the NeXT has a bad design. The OS steals too many clock cycles for it's
own work (task switching, display postscript, my god man It's UNIX!). We're
talking system performance here, not processor performance. obviously an 040
outperforms an 030 at the same clock speed, but because of the NeXT's high
overhead it's performance is in the dregs.
.--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 21:03:36 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ukma!darwin.sura.net!jvnc.net!yale.edu!think.com!samsung!nstar!sysc
on!carl@arizona.edu (Carl Kreider)
Subject: Darn brevity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
jdutka@wpi.WPI.EDU (John Dutka) writes:
>In article <1992Jan17.213613.10836@syscon.rn.com> carl@syscon.rn.com (Carl
Kreider) writes:
>>Getting whacked by Amiga lovers leads me to clarify this. A good 68030
>>design (HP/Apollo) seems to be able to run 350 dhrystones per MHZ of clock
>>(i.e. 7000 dhrystones at 20MHZ and 17500 drystones at 50MHZ. Next gets 280
>>drys/MHZ, which is still good. The Amiga 3000 gets 120 drys/MHZ. These
>Well, my 3000-25 (nocache noburst) gets 6400 dhrystones, so 6400/25=256
>drys/MHz, quite close to the NeXT. That number would be higher if I was using
>burst mode and cache on, and not running the term program and text editor.
>Just wanted to clarify things...
>--
>| John Dutka | WSU Term #10: Linear Momentum. Unit: The CowHit (CH): |
And my 520 8MHz gets 6400 dhrystones too. 'Course you can't watch it do
it. Please. Did you notice I chose an independent source of data to
compare? And did you notice I was *not* putting down your Amiga?
Just wanted to clarify things...
>`--------------------' = m*x/[m(c)*l(c)*t(c)] ------------------------'
--
Carl Kreider
CIS 71076,76
Usenet ....!syscon.rn.com!carl
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 20:58:46 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wupost!think.com!samsung!nstar!syscon!carl@ari
zona.edu (Carl Kreider)
Subject: Darn brevity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz) writes:
>In article <1992Jan17.213613.10836@syscon.rn.com> carl@syscon.rn.com (Carl
Kreider) writes:
(my explanation deleted)
>i would guess the compilers on the more expensive machines are better.
>for example, i get about 100 dhrys/MHz on an ST with Alcyon C and closer
>to 200 dhrys/MHz with GNU C. same machine otherwise...
That sounds right for Alcyon but pretty strong for GNU. MegaMax is about
1100 - 1600 for GNU seems strong.
>dhrystone is not a very good benchmark, unless all things are equal. that
>includes compiler technology in this case. caches on the bigger boxes will
>help, as you point out, but few people consider compilers when comparing
>(or reporting) dhrystone numbers. i have also seen people posting
>_executables_ of dhrystone, which is nonsense.
Your points are valid (and well understood here) but not very useful. I
think dhrystone is best bench available for general purpose. Much better
than generating primes or clocking nops. Do you *really* think the 3:1
difference is the compiler? I'll still bet most of it is the difference
between 3111 burst and 5 or 6 cycle non-burst or perhaps running ram at
the 'right' speed for the video circuit.
>also realize there are at least 3 versions of dhrystone...
I know of two and prefer version 2.0 over 1.1 since it is harder for
a compiler to recognise and optimize away.
>-bill
>rosenkra@convex.com
>--
>Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
>Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
--
Carl Kreider
CIS 71076,76
Usenet ....!syscon.rn.com!carl
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 92 01:32:50 GMT
From: mentor.cc.purdue.edu!PURCCVM.BITNET!RIFFEGL@purdue.edu
Subject: easter eggs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does anyone know where I can get a good file with hints, cheats, tips and
tricks for games? I know some of these are fondly called "easter eggs".
I am particularly interested in ST and Lynx games.
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 19:47:58 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.
ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler)
Subject: Finishing Dungeon Master
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>I finished Dungeon Master with only one character a couple of years ago.
>It took me about a week, playing 1- 1.5 hours a day. The character I used,
>incidentally, was Elija. What do other netters think of my choice of character
I finished with 1 character somewhere in 1989 I think. I did not have too much
trouble since I had already played it with four and the two characters. I used
WUUF. Maybe it is just me, but I've never found another character who advanced
as quickly in everything... Who said you can't teach an old dog new tricks?
(groan...)
When I played with two I used Hissa and Daroou. This is the game I liked the
most, the two characters made it more interesting. Plus they were strong enough
to wack-a-mole the heck out of everything in sight when their mana ran out.
All in all, lots o' fun.
On a sad note, Columbus Ohio just lost their last ST dealer. What a joke. Looks
like Atari USA has yet to improve despite the new products (nobody would buy
one anyway, at least not around here).
By the way, you really should read my cool .sig file ;-)
- David Butler - dhbutler@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu
-once I was the one you wanted so bad
just a little more than you ever had
like adam & eve, paradise is sad
I need a holiday from you
I need a little more room to move
suffocation's on the loose - - Willie Phoenix -
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 92 08:09:15 GMT
From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Finishing Dungeon Master
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The Champion I took through Dungeon Master alone was Tiggy...
While she starts out with the highest mana of any character, she
is also the physically weakest of all the Champions.
The biggest problem I encountered with only one Champion was
having her carry all the stufffff that I knew she'd be needing
later on... (food and water were MUCH less of a problem with
only one mouth to feed...)
I ended up having her throw all her stuff (mostly in chests)
down the stairs to the next level, then going down and wiping
out the monsters on that level... then going back to the
beginning and trucking all her stuffff to the stairs to the
NEXT level, and starting all over again...
It was easier when she finally got to the Skeleton Key stairs...
she could easily run up and down between levels to get whatever
she needed from higher levels...
Also, she exhausted her mana MUCH faster, being the only one
who could cast magic, thus she spent a lot more time resting to
regain her mana... it was important to know what areas were
safe to sleep in...
BobR
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 92 05:46:09 GMT
From: arizona.edu!uavax0.ccit.arizona.edu!i9853100@arizona.edu
Subject: FOR SALE: 1040 ST and Multisync
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
For sale :
Atari 1040 ST, 2.5 meg RAM upgradable to 4 meg by plugging in more
RAM chips, internal clock/calendar.
Thompson Ultrascan multisync moonitor. This monitor is compatible
with: - IBM CGA, EGA, VGA
- Atari ST high, medium, low resolutions
- Macintosh II
- VCR, video camera etc.
It has separate inputs for Analog, TTL, and composite video.
Three video sources can be connected at once, and then you
can switch between them. Includes a switchbox for the
Atari ST (to switch between monochrome and color), a cable for
CGA/EGA, and a cable for VGA. This is a very nice and
versitile monitor!
I will sell the computter and monitor for $325 EACH. Note that the RAM upgrade
in the ST uses high quality, low power, 70ns RAM. Not the cheap stuff.
If you are interested in either or both, email me or call Doug at
(602)795-7633. Thanks!
Doug Tarico
University of Arizona
I9853100@ccit.arizona.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 19:01:37 GMT
From: ncrcom!ncrlnk!ncrwat!pinot!herborth@uunet.uu.net (Chris Herborth)
Subject: Grumble...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Sorry folks, but I've been bitten by the idiot-mailserver that's been going
'round. Ignore this unless you're:
Philipp Knirsh! My mail-server ate your address! Email me again so I can
send you the email I tried to send you this morning!
My mailserver is lonely. It's been sending all of my replies to itself.
--
----------======================= _ /\ ===========================----------
Chris Herborth \`o.0' herborth@pinot.Waterloo.NCR.COM
Information Products Co-Op =(___)=
NCR E&M Waterloo U
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 92 02:04:10 GMT
From: van-bc!ubc-cs!flinn@uunet.uu.net (Scott Flinn)
Subject: How do Cconis() and Crawcin() work together (in MWC)?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I need to obtain keystrokes from standard input as they become available,
and not have them echoed to standard output. I do not require redirection
of input. After some experimentation, it seems that Crawcin() is the best
way to obtain keyboard input that potentially needs to be buffered
(i.e. I can't guarantee to execute the key press function while the
key is actually physically depressed). But I require non blocking input,
so I have used Cconis() to determine if a key is actually available.
The acual code is:
/*
* This function will return -1 if no key is available, or the key
* that was pressed by the user. It is checking stdin, without blocking.
*/
int key_pressed()
{
if ( Cconis() == -1 )
{
return( (int)( Crawcin() & 0xffff ) );
}
return( -1 );
}
The problem is that the Cconis() condition does not become true until long
after the program starts and many keys have been firmly pressed. After it
behaves correctly once, it continues to behave correctly, but the first
keystrokes (for which Cconis() did not return -1) are lost.
I'm a novice with this sort of I/O ... am I doing something that is
obviously wrong? I am using MWC version 2.1.7.
Thanks in advance,
--
Scott Flinn
Department of Computer Science flinn@cs.ubc.ca
The University of British Columbia (604)822-8572
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 13:42:38 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!spool.mu.edu
!umn.edu!lapis.labmed.umn.edu!davidli@arizona.edu
Subject: I cant get Zoo to work!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9201192315.aa15112@Bonnie.ics.uci.edu>, ehohnbau@Bonnie.ICS.UCI.EDU
writes:
> After I click on zoo.ttp and the the parameter box I tried:
Try using the 'novice' parameters:
-extract zooboy
should work nicely.
--
David Paschall-Zimbel davidli@simvax.labmed.umn.edu
"The most important fact about Spaceship Earth: An instruction book didn't come
with it." -- R. Buckminster Fuller
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Jan 92 23:23 EDT
From: SYUROFF%ALBION.bitnet@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V92 #32
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 14:31:17 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!bonnie
.concordia.ca!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!homer.cs.mcgill.ca!bpat@arizona.edu
(Patrick BETREMIEUX)
Subject: MEGAFILE noise
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
As with Atari floppy drives, hard drives are quite silent at first, but
quickly get noisy. (My floppy can sometimes be heard in the next room).
This is because there is some sort of grease on the stepper motor to have
it glide nicely. But this wears off rapidly, resulting in many decibels.
I don't think there is a way to get around that, as, for the HD, the cord
should not (At least, as far as I know !) be any longer then what it is.
(Maybe you should really consider the muffling it with a pillow :-)
------------------------------
Date: 22 Jan 92 01:16:04 GMT
From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Azog-Thoth@uunet.uu.net (William Thomas
Daugustine)
Subject: MIDI out to audio
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi. I am interested in a hopefully easy way to take the stuff that
I record via MIDI on my STe, and somehow pump it thru the STes
stereo audio out. Anyway I can do this without buying stuff like
expensive digitizers?
Thanx
Billy D'Augustine
Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 21:55:09 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!malgudi.oar.net!sunc.osc.edu!cis.o
hio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.E
du!be824@arizona.edu (Steve Selick)
Subject: Notator and sysex
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Has anybody else out there had any problems saving long strings of
sysex data in Notator? I have never had problems with my sampler and
Sound Designer, but Notator will almost always give me errors, and
it gets all locked up. Any suggestions?
<selick@bucsf.bu.edu>
------------------------------
Date: 21 Jan 92 23:18:50 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!sp
ool.mu.edu!umn.edu!csus.edu!csusac!sactoh0!sap@arizona.edu (Stephan A. Puga)
Subject: Stuff I need to sell...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Here is a list of Games/Programs and that I need to sell due to
space limitations in my house. If you are interested in purchasing
anything here send me some e-mail at:
sap@sactoh0.sac.ca.us
All games come with their original box and documentation. In most
cases everything is in very good condition (i.e. if I shrinkwrapped
the box, you would never be able to tell it was used!) The prices
below do not take into account shipping charges which I am too poor to
pay for and thus you should figure in approximately $2.00 - $3.00 for
shipping. In some cases like F-19, which have a lot of docs and thus
are heavy, the charge *might* be $4.00. Any and all prices are
negotiable, once again just send me some e-mail.
You can request some short descriptions of the games if you are
unsure of what you are buying, just send me some e-mail requesting
which ones you want to know about.
Hurry, before someone else buys them!
An '*' means I have two(2) copies to sell.
Games Company Price
-------------------------------------- ---------------------- -------
Airball Microdeal $ 5.00
AutoDuel Origin $ 5.00
Baal Psyclapse/Psygnosis $ 5.00
Barbarian Psygnosis $ 5.00
Barbarian II Palace $ 5.00
Championship Baseball Gamestar $ 5.00
Black Cauldron Sierra $ 5.00
Boulder Dash Cons. Kit Epyx $ 5.00
Dragon Spirit Tengen $ 5.00
Dragons of Flame SSI $10.00
Dyter 07 reLine $ 5.00
Elvira Accolade $15.00
Escape from Planet of Robot Monsters Tengen $ 5.00
*F-19 Stealth Fighter Microprose $20.00
Galdregon's Domain Pandora $ 5.00
Gauntlet Mindscape $ 5.00
Ghouls 'N Ghosts US Gold $ 5.00
Gold of the Aztecs, The US Gold $ 7.00
Hardball Accocalde $ 5.00
Heroes of the Lance SSI $ 5.00
Hex Mark of the Unicorn $ 5.00
Legend of Faerghail reLine $ 8.00
Midwinter Rainbird $10.00
Oriental Games MicroStyle $ 7.00
Pawn, The Magnetic Scrolls $ 5.00
Phantasie SSI $ 5.00
Phantasie II SSI $ 5.00
Phantasie III SSI $ 5.00
Questron SSI $ 5.00
Roadwar 2000 SSI $ 5.00
Rogue Epyx $ 5.00
Shadowgate Mindscape $ 5.00
Shadow of the Beast Psygnosis $ 8.00
TechnoCOP US Gold $ 5.00
UN Squadron US GOld $ 5.00
Universal Military Sim. Rainbird $ 7.00
Zany Golf Electronic Arts $ 5.00
Program Company Price
-------------------------------------- ---------------------- -------
Mi-Term (terminal program) MichTron $ 2.00
A-Copier (bit copier) Megasoft $ 2.00
Unfortunately, due to several problems in the past(i.e not
receiving payment), I have to ask that you send me the money before
I send the package. If you have a problem with this, please leave
me a message.
--
#############################################################
# "Its been surreal!" # sap@sactoh0.SAC.CA.US #
# -- Gogo Dodo # UUCP=..ames!pacbell!sactoh0 #
#############################################################
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
