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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 506
Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 26 Sep 91 Volume 91 : Issue 506
Today's Topics:
ARJ?
ARJ? K.I.S.S.!
Atari Laser Printer for Sale
CPX Information
GEM Font Inquire functions
Is Fcopy PRO a demo or not
Looking for Colin Hunt
Lost Boys Final Mega-Demo: Can't make it to run ...
MEGA STE Screen Problem Solved??????
MIDI Music (was "What to buy next...")
Moniterm VY1000 (1987 model) - attach to ST?
People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale)
Question about SST board from GBS (2 msgs)
Replacing the internal drive
Sound player for 11khz?
ULTIMATE ST SYSTEM FOR SALE (with additions)!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 16:36:48 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz)
Subject: ARJ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <3080@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
>larserio@IFI.UIO.NO (LarsErikOsterud) writes:
>|The reason we want ARC, ZMODEM, LHARC etc as TOS programs is that you can't
>|use a GEM program inside lets say a BBS or an automatic comm-program
>Wrong.
>It's possible (and eminently desirable, if you ask me) to write programs
>like this which work both textually from a command line and graphically
>from the desktop. It's not even very hard.
ken is of course correct. i am not sure i'd buy "eminently desirable" tho.
it is not desirable at all for me, personally.
>Reading this thread, I'm wondering where this idea came from. Why is it
>that y'all think that if a program uses GEM it's unthinkable for the
>same program to work with arguments from a CLI?
unfortunately it came from you. you should have defined "integrated GEM"
in your original post. now that we understand what u meant, it becomes
clear (and reasonably desirable :-). and i get some of the blame for
jumping to conclusions, i s'pose. i was just thinking of the ensuing mess
that would result if all archivers on the ST would become hopelessly
GEM-ized (only) with none of the provisions you point out here.
also, using alcyon, i have NEVER been able to get a gem program to read
args. the few times i tried i got bus errors. maybe the gemstart i wuz
using was hosed or maybe (no it couldn't be!) i made some grievous error.
it is certainly NOT documented in my dev kit (admittedly ancient - 1986).
anyway, i stopped trying. besides, i see the desktop so rarely (just when
i click on my CLI after a boot) i never pursued it any further.
i have officially abandoned alcyon. and i vow to try gcc on this matter...
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 16:18:12 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosenkranz)
Subject: ARJ? K.I.S.S.!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <3079@atari.UUCP> kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
>Just as you aren't saying don't make ARJ use from the desktop impossible
>(wow, TRIPLE negative! My 8th grade English teacher would be shocked),
>I'm saying PLEASE include a GEM UI in ARJ *along with the command line
>options*.
this is acceptable. however you should have been this precise in your
initial statement which prompted a rather self-centered response from
new zealand and later my vehement tirade :-).
i only see two problems here. first, burrying GEM code in a an application
making it "bisexual", if you will, makes it larger (obviously). bundling
the gem user interface for like programs (all archivers pretty much do
the same thing) in a separate shell seems like a better approach, though
it may make installation slightly more complicated. it is also easier to
tack on GEM support for new programs this way without having to reprogram
each code. the current gem shells are centrally maintained and thus offer
consistent user interfaces (less chance of confusion).
the other problem is that i fear gem code and the application will get
hopelessly intermingled making it impossible to port to non-GEM platforms.
that is assuming source is even distributed.
>Nobody wants to take your CLI away from you
what a relief!!!
>Please, it's not that hard to make a program do double duty as a GEM
>program with menus and windows and icons and as a CLI program with a
>bewildering set of confusing switches that you have to look up every
>time you want to use the program for something different.
i don't find this as a problem but then i CAN see how it would be for
some, maybe many end users. hence my recommendation for a shell.
>I like to encourage programmers to make their programs easier for the
>majority of users to use, because that makes the ST a better machine.
agreed. tho a "majority of users" encompasses a community beyond the ST,
especially for archivers.
also, IF atari plans on ever releasing some flavor of UNIX in the future,
it will be in your best interest to educate users on using CLIs anyway.
it could mean something as simple as an GEM based set of manpages and
better .ttp dialogs. i really don't see a way around CLI use in unix
at some point (i.e. sys admin). who knows, atari might suprise us :-).
>For a general-purpose tool like an archiver, it's important that a lot
>of people will be able to use it by double clicking on its icon from
>the desktop, looking up the options in the menus, performing familiar
>operations in windows and dialogs. Graphical shells are nice as far
>as they go, but that's just one more level of indirection, and one
>more thing for the user to have to know (where did I put that archive
>program, anyways...).
you have to draw the line somewhere. if your installation instructions
are sufficiently clear in the shell, this should not be a problem. most
GEM-only users have no idea what a PATH is so they tend to lump all their
tools in a few places. i know i did way back when i first got my ST. of
course i didn't go for long before i had a CLI (like maybe a week or 2).
>Keep it simple. Put it in one program, with an embedded resource
>file, and make it work graphically from the desktop, or textually
>from a shell.
again, i have no problem IFF the gem code can be totally compartmentalized
in one are. how about something like:
% cc -DBISEXUAL ...
#ifdef BISEXUAL
#include "gemmain.c" /* this MUST go before main() */
#endif /*BISEXUAL*/
main (int argc, char *argv[], char *env[])
{
/* "normal" main */
}
/* rest of the application here... any output should go to stdout
as usual */
#ifdef BISEXUAL
#include "gemcode.c" /* this goes at the bottom of the file */
#endif /*BISEXUAL*/
put this in gemmain.c:
/* this is the first function in the file, BEFORE original main */
main (int argc, char *argv[], char *env[])
{
if (argc < 1) /* or other appropriate test for GEMness */
gem_main ();
else
tos_main (argc, argv, env);
}
/* this will eliminate duplicate main() */
#define main tos_main
and have this in gemcode.c:
/* put gem-specific includes, globals, etc here...*/
gem_main()
{
/* gem main, including screen hold before exit */
appl_init();
...
appl_exit();
}
/* ALL other GEM code here... */
if i do "cc -UBISEXUAL -E ..." i should see the original application.
keep tos_main() to be the original code's main program and keep gem_main
totally separate. there are probably better ways, tho this should work
reasonably well. this is quite "non-intrusive" (adding just 6 lines to
a .ttp or .tos application).
comments, ken??? could this be a new standard programming practice? :-)
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 14:17:31 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!olivea!isc-br!michaela@arizona.edu
(Michael Albo)
Subject: Atari Laser Printer for Sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I thought I would try this once by itself.
Atari SLM804 Laser Printer
This only has about 2100 pages printed
on it and has just had a new cartridge
put in it. $650
(Requires a least an ST with 2 meg of
memory or more.)
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT PRINTER !
Terms are C.O.D. and the buyer must pay shipping.
send email or contact me directly.
My email address is:
michaela@isc-br.isc-br.com
My home phone is
(509) 928-8009
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 11:13:22 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!dkuug!aud.dk!soren@arizona.ed
u (Soeren Michelsen)
Subject: CPX Information
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This is my first attempt to post anything on the net. Please bear with
me if you don't see this - and if you do bear with me anyway :-)
Where do I find information on CPX module programming? Are there any
public information available or do you have to pay $300 or so to get
the docs from Atari Corp?
If you know the answers to my problems please leave them here or
even better mail me. Thanx!
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 13:58:55 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!gatech!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!dkuug!aud.dk!soren@arizona.ed
u (Soeren Michelsen)
Subject: GEM Font Inquire functions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've been working on a new terminal program for the ST with the
following specs: GEM based, prog & acc, VT52/ANSI/+FULL+ VT100 with
VT220 subset (DEC compatible fonts included for most languages),
XYZmodem transfer, script files etc.
It will be released as a shareware offer when I've done with the initial
coding.
Currently Term/ST (as it is called) runs on mono ST's only (I wrote my
own screen I/O in the window - standard v_gtext() being is *much* to slow
for high speed modeming) but I expect it to run on most STs later on.
I'll probably make this an option, e.g. one could switch on a special
'compatibility mode' which would make Term/ST use only standard GDOS
fonts. Current I am stuck with an 8x14 font - these enables me to
emulate a 78x24 terminal, adequate for most VT100 editors.
Now, I have some problems which I hope some of you could help me with:
1) Where do I find the number of available fonts within the application?
Their names, ID's etc. - I'd like to present the user with a choice of
fonts to pick from.
2) How do I tell the correct font height (GEM will let me set strange
heights - which make the font appear smeared?!)
3) My application sees AC_CLOSE messages AFTER the desktop has been
taken over by a double clicked .PRG application. Am I doing something
wrong here - I thought AC_CLOSE messages was sent to .ACCs *before*
the Desktop was closed down?
Any help would be appreciated!
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 15:24:27 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!edfd!volker@uunet.uu.net (Volker Schmidt)
Subject: Is Fcopy PRO a demo or not
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I heard rumours, that the DEMO of Fcopy PRO couldn't handle
double-sided (DS) disks, only single-sided were handled.
Maybe you try this....
-volker
--
Volker Schmidt | UUCP: volker@edfd.uucp
eckard-design GmbH |
Reesbergstrasse 1 | X400: c=de; admp=dbp; prmd=uni-giessen;
D-W-6400 Fulda 1 | ou=fhfd; s=schmidt; g=volker
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 91 14:01 UT
From: /PN=COLIN.W.HUNT/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TMAILUK/C=GB/@sprint.com
Subject: Looking for Colin Hunt
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm Here!
Could you try sending an email to the address in the header as I'm not
sure what format it will be. If this works we can then talk directly.
Colin
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 18:49:49 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!gatech!swrinde!mips!samsung!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!
faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu (Lars Michael)
Subject: Lost Boys Final Mega-Demo: Can't make it to run ...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've downloaded thie demo yesterday, and tried to run
(in color mode obviously 8-)). The loading screen was
shown. I hit a key to continue to the main demo and
my ST returned to the desktop and hang up 8-(((
I don't think I've done something wrong. I suppose it's
the wrong TOS version ...
BTW: I'm running TOS 2.05 with 4 Megs.
Any help?
---
Larry
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | | | | |
| Lars "Mr. GIF" Michael | | | | "Down with ATARI, |
| Graduate Student of Computer Science | / | \ Long live the ST !" |
| at University of Erlangen/Germany | / | \ |
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| Bones: "Damn it, Kirk, I'm a doctor, not a very good actor." |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 12:52:37 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!alp!johnj@uunet.uu.net (John Janssen)
Subject: MEGA STE Screen Problem Solved??????
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have been a happy ST user for years and I (still)
see the MEGA STE as a very good upgrade of it.
So, in May or June this year I bought my MEGA STE,
and the first thing i noticed was the screen
shifting problem. I reported it to the net.
I got a lot of 'me too' reactions.
So we all know that this is a general MEGA STE problem.
Thanks to LarsErik we all know all(?) the symptoms
and what the actual wrong chip is.
Now what did I do:
First I tried to convince my local dealer that it
indeed is a problem. Unfortunality, all MEGA STEs
he had in stock had the same screen shifting problem.
He called Atari in the Netherlands (called 'Atari Benelux')
and they denied the problem and said that it 'was the
software being not compatible with the new TOS'.
That was in June (I think).
Then summer came, stil working happy with my new MEGA STE
except for that screen shifting problem that shows up
in some programs.
In the end of August I visited the 'Atari Messe' in Dusseldorf
Germany, and to my suprise 'Atari Benelux' was there as well.
I talked about my problem and asked for a solution. We also
talked about the news on the net (as they knew the postings).
I spoke to Wilfred k. Kilwinger (support manager) and
he told me that they were having a meeting in Dusseldorf
with Atari USA to see what could be done to it. (they prefered
a low cost solution like adding caps instead of the costly
chip replacements).
A week later I did ring him to ask of the conclusion
of the meeting. He was very friendly and he told that indeed
there must have been a group of MEGA STE computers which did
have a wrong shifter chip.
An older chip which requires more extra components was placed
on boards which did require the newer chip (which shouldnot
need all these extra electronic components).
He promised me to send a new chip to my local dealer who
could replace it then.
I waited a week, but did not hear anything.
So I first rang my local dealer's technician, but he said
he had not received anything.
So I rang Atari again, but found out that Kilwinger had
left for holiday soon after our phone call (which could have
been the reason for not having sent the chip).
They first conected me to a technician which did not know
the problem at all, but later I was connected to a person
called Honnebeke (or alike). He did knew about the problem
and promised me to send the chip to my local dealer.
So last week, my local dealer had received the chip and I
brought my MEGA STE in. The technician was a fine chap and
I was there when he replaced the chip (after worktime!).
The first thing we looked for was if the chip was labeled
different. It was: one whole letter! That did look promising.
After a real hard work to get the chip out of the socket
(this took more then 20 minutes), he replaced the chip.
After closing the box, the MEGA STE was reconnected and
switched on. Now an application was started and there
it was... the screen shift problem still alive.
My MEGA STE is still not repaired!
So, after four months at least one step has been making
forward: Atari no longer denies the problem.
I hope that the next step will be a good replacement
for the chip.
My shifter chip was labeled:
9101 AMB
C301712-001
(c)ATARI 1990
-31 160608-1
The new one had 'ALB' instead of 'AMB' on the first line.
That's all for now.
john
I forget to say that all people of Atari were very friendly
and tried to be helpful. It is so sory that the problem
is still there.
--
John Janssen Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl
The Netherlands
Work: +31 40 756588 Atari Mega STE, MIDI, C-lab Notator and Unitor.
Home: +31 77 513177 Lattice C and many more.
--
--
John Janssen Email: johnj@echo.philips.nl
The Netherlands
------------------------------
Date: 26 Sep 91 14:08 UT
From: /PN=COLIN.W.HUNT/O=SPRINTINTL/ADMD=TMAILUK/C=GB/@sprint.com
Subject: MIDI Music (was "What to buy next...")
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
One of our local schools (Bournemouth School) has a MIDI workshop within their
music department. It contains 12 ST computers and zero other makes. One of
the teachers belongs to our User group (BaPAUG) and brings along new MIDI
software that the school purchases for us to look at.
We (BaPAUG) also run a MIDI show once a year inorder to demonstrate the
abilities of the Atari. I say Atari as a small part of the evening usually
involves the use of an 130XE with MIDIMaster. However, the show goes down
really
well - we normally advertise on the local radio and in the press. If Atari
can't sell their computers we should help as in the end it helps us all.
Bye for now
Colin Hunt
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 15:35:39 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!m.cs.uiuc.edu!vela!wsu-cs!jake!pbh@arizona.edu
(Patrick Haggood)
Subject: Moniterm VY1000 (1987 model) - attach to ST?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have access to a surplus VY1000 by Moniterm corp. This monitor
has the small D connector (RBG I believe). I wondered if this monitor
could be hooked up to the ST, as Moniterm builds ST-specific monitors.
--
Genie - P.HAGGOOD2 Internet -pbh@jake.cc.wayne.edu
PRODIGY - Not anymore, Jackson. Bitnet - phaggoo@waynest1
Phone - (313) 577-0669
Voice - "HEY, YOU WITH THE BAGGY PANTS!"
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 14:23:15 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-sta
te.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler)
Subject: People dumping machines (was.. Atari Mega 2 system.. for sale)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm (trying) to jump ship (sorry). I LOVE my Mega, I really do, but "power
without the price" is dead. Also I run a DTP company, and need compatibility
with "everyone else", which means Mac (but I do like the ST better, but gotta
make money!).
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 14:27:05 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
.ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler)
Subject: Question about SST board from GBS
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Sep23.171634.17869@crash.cts.com> trag@pnet01.cts.com (Jim Trag
eser) writes:
>>This begs the question, has anyone run it side by side with a TT? I would
>>be curious to see how it compares to Atari's 68030 box. If the speed is
>>comparable then users could save big $$$ by purchasing Dave Small's upgrade.
>
>It was faster than the TT on some applications, but not on others. Of course,
>the SST is (supposedly) 100 percent compatable with ST software, which the TT
>is not. As the GBS rep said, too, the TT and the SST are two different
>machines with different strengths which can't be measured by speed alone.
>
>But for pure number crunching, the SST looks pretty quick.
>
>UUCP: {hplabs!hp-sdd ucsd nosc}!crash!pnet01!trag
>ARPA: crash!pnet01!trag@nosc.mil
>INET: trag@pnet01.cts.com
I just heard tale (from a generably reliable source), that Dave Small just
demonstrated a 50mhz version of the SST board. He said "the only thing Apple
has that is faster is thier CRAY." - Sounds pretty damn cool to me...
David Butler
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 19:41:47 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-s
tate.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!rlcollins@arizona.edu (Ryan
'Gozar' Collins)
Subject: Question about SST board from GBS
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Sep21.145149.24269@oz.plymouth.edu>, oddjob@oz.plymouth.edu
(Andrew C. Stoffel) writes:
> [A couple of different(?) questions about the SST board from GBS.]
> If I don't get a TT I'll be moving my STf into another case so that's
> not a problem. What I'd like to know is.....
(I'm currently moving mine to a PC case now, since my power supply blew
and I got a PC case with PS for free!!)
> 1. What does the SST do for monitors ? Will my stock mono SM124 work
> with it ? Or is there a way to use the slot(?) I heard mentioned
> (by someone) for a card for a "REAL" monitor ?
At the Windsor Atari show, Dave hinted at a graphics board for the slot,
but he didn't say anything specific.
> 3. What happens to the RAM in the ST ? Does the SST board use it for
> anything ??
Some programs will not be able to run in the SST ram and will have to
run in regular ST ram.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ryan 'Gozar' Collins Question for MAC Users: rlcollins@miavx1.BITNET
|||| Power Without What IS the format of a rc1dsanu@miamiu.BITNET
/ || \ The Price!! MAC HFS floppy disk? R.COLLINS1 on GEnie
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 14:57:02 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!gatech!udel!wupost!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!uc!apctrc!drd
!d.cs.okstate.edu!cummins@arizona.edu (John Cummins)
Subject: Replacing the internal drive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <21183@darkstar.ucsc.edu> chaos@ucscb.UCSC.EDU (60208000) writes:
>
>
> Is it possible to replace my flakey 1040 drive with a DS/DD 3.5" drive?
Yes indeed.... but be certain it's not the drive cable or something
flakey on the motherboard... (Can't be specific here... I don't know
what exactly goes wrong....) But a "standard drive" can be made to fit,
with case modifications, and sometimes a longer data/control cable.
There are recomendations as to what drives work best, the Toshiba
ND-352 I used worked great after I glued down a "Floppy Detect" switch
in the drive... (Be careful NOT to glue down the write protect detect
switch next to it...)
Other drives may be available that work great out of the box.
Also... watch for a need to twist the data cable.... pin 1 must go to pin 1,
even if you have to put a half twist in the cable... Seems that the
drive originally in my ST had an "inverted" connector on it. A half-twist
in the cable was neccessary with the ND-352.
jc
cummins@d.cs.okstate.edu
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 23:57:55 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!ukma!wupost!usc!apple!netcomsv!bryanw@arizona.edu (Bryan
Woodworth)
Subject: Sound player for 11khz?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am looking for a sound player that will play samples at 11Khz. Anyone
know of one?
--
Bryan Woodworth Mail: bryanw@netcom.COM
Netcom - Online Communication Services San Jose, CA
------------------------------
Date: 25 Sep 91 14:08:34 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
.ohio-state.edu!dhbutler@arizona.edu (David Butler)
Subject: ULTIMATE ST SYSTEM FOR SALE (with additions)!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Yes, in defense of my system, the ISAAC is indeed a "mondo" color card,
1024*768*16colors out of 4096, also a 1024*768 Mono mode that works with
Spectre as well as ST software. Compared to the TT (tiny tiny?)
640*480*16colors, it looks great! With all the other add-ons, this system is
really great, fast, stable, etc. I'm "officially" leaving my minimum for the
system as stated above, but offers are being accepted...
Thanks for the interest everyone, and sorry for the confusion. I thougt my
Mega would be a really hot item and easy to get rid of, otherwise I would have
posted it seperately (first), since the sales of everything else depends upon
my ability to get a reasonable amount for the ST iteslf...
David Butler
"Innagaddadaviddababy"
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
