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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 92 Issue 043
Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 24 Jan 92 Volume 92 : Issue 43
Today's Topics:
Amiga flamers
Atarians! Where Are You?! (4 msgs)
Atari ST stuff forsale
Clipart ".img" files
Darn brevity (2 msgs)
Desktop background
Does anybody know...
easter eggs
Finishing Dungeon Master (2 msgs)
GCC questions
JRD's port of GNU Emacs
Multifinder for Atari-ST ?
multifinder for the ST
Spectre users unite!
TOS chipsets (was Re: What to do?)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 16:59:04 GMT
From: lanai!bcc@uunet.uu.net (Brian Cooper)
Subject: Amiga flamers
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <696164966.2192@minster.york.ac.uk> jph@minster.york.ac.uk writes:
>A note to all Atari owners on the net - please don't reply to the Amiga idiot
>who insists on trying to start a flame war every other week. These flames are
>totally non-productive and a complete waste of time. If we just ignore him
he'll
>get bored and go off to somewhere else and leave us in peace.
>
>Maybe we should have a moderator to filter out this flame trash.
>
>Jonathan.
>
I certainly agree -- I get tired of adding kill file entries for each new
idiot that comes along with a commodore and an attitude. Never mind the
relative merits of their computers; I am now convinced I would NEVER buy
a machine that caused its users to go wandering around picking fights with
owners of other brands! Does the monitor put out some special radiation
that causes brain damage? Maybe there are subliminal messages that
'flicker' past and incite people to mindless acts of .... (STOP IT!)
--
Brian Cooper bcc@Eyring.COM uunet!lanai!bcc
Eyring Corp. +1 801-375-2434 or 1 800 YES PDOS
(If the above doesn't work, try coope@bert.cs.byu.edu)
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 16:07:52 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wupost!waikato.ac.nz!comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Shep
pard@arizona.edu (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: Atarians! Where Are You?!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan24.044208.21223@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
(Ray) writes:
> In article <1992Jan23.132827.48664@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk (Mr
Stephen R Usher) writes:
> >In article <1992Jan23.071233.10605@milton.u.washington.edu>
tlk@hardy.u.washington.edu (Jeremy C. Norberg) writes:
> >>In article <1992Jan18.122843.10678@actrix.gen.nz>
Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes:
>
> I'd say the Amiga is the second best computer to program C on
> besides the NeXT.
And with Sum check on disks..Tut tut tut..
If its that good, how is it you never got Turbo-C ported, and you never
mention the GNU C++..!!
>
> >--
> >Addresses:-
> >JANET:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or susher@uk.ac.csm
> >Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or susher@csm.ac.uk
There is one computer that you forgot about beats, them all hands down,
its the Acorn (UK) A540/A5000, its a RISC machine and get a 26 mips performance,
so why not go and see if you can find one to look at..
--
*** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz ***
*** 85 Donovan Rd * * GEnie. R.SHEPPARD5 ***
*** Kapiti At least I don't Flicker, ***
*** New Zealand.. * not like a dying light globe ***
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 15:41:21 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!keele!nott-cs!asb@uunet.uu.net (Andrew Stuart Brown)
Subject: Atarians! Where Are You?!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
> You're gonna have to justify this statement. The Amiga has more
>programming tools than I can count. Numerous C compilers, 4 Forth
>implementations, Modula-2, Oberon, Smalltalk, Eiffel, Lisp/Scheme,
>Basic (plentity of them including ones that produce optimized
>assembly), AMOS, Fortran, the list goes on. Almost every
>language has been ported. There are a couple PD interface builders
>for GUI work, PD debuggers, not to mention that AmigaDOS looks and
>smells like Unix from the shell point of view.
>There is an entire (PD)C programming manual on disk that teaches
>Amiga programming step by step. Not to mention the 590 fish disks
>FULL of programs with C source code.
>
> I'd say the Amiga is the second best computer to program C on
>besides the NeXT.
I suppose you're entitled to your opinion, it's how you come to that conclusion
that beats me. Both the Mac, the ST and now even the PC all have consistent
user interfaces that impose rigid styles on the programmer, providing him with
the tools necessary for simplifying design and implementation. By contrast, the
Amiga's so called GUI has all the hallmarks of something thrown together in
rather a hurry (maybe it was ?). It provides virtually no services to the
poor sod who has to program it - have you ever tried to enter data into a
complex Amiga dialogue without resorting to the mouse ?
In short, the Amiga's designers should have read the Apple style guides before
they even touched a keyboard. I apologise for bringing this to c.s.a.s but it
was the Amiga's amateurish interface implementation that kept me on the Atari.
Andy.
--
===============================================================================
= Disclaimer: I know I talk trash. You don't have to tell me. =
= Give me a VAX and I'll rule the world. =
= e-mail: asb@cs.nott.ac.uk =
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 19:26:17 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!samsung!olivea!mintaka.lcs.mit.edu!hal.gnu
.ai.mit.edu!rjc@arizona.edu (Ray)
Subject: Atarians! Where Are You?!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan24.160752.2826@actrix.gen.nz> Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz
(Roger Sheppard) writes:
>In article <1992Jan24.044208.21223@mintaka.lcs.mit.edu> rjc@hal.gnu.ai.mit.edu
(Ray) writes:
>> In article <1992Jan23.132827.48664@link-1.ts.bcc.ac.uk> ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk (Mr
Stephen R Usher) writes:
>> >In article <1992Jan23.071233.10605@milton.u.washington.edu>
tlk@hardy.u.washington.edu (Jeremy C. Norberg) writes:
>> >>In article <1992Jan18.122843.10678@actrix.gen.nz>
Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes:
>
>>
>> I'd say the Amiga is the second best computer to program C on
>> besides the NeXT.
>
>And with Sum check on disks..Tut tut tut..
This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen. Atleast I'm
not stuck with 11 character filenames, and I have soft and hardlinks
in my filesystem.
>If its that good, how is it you never got Turbo-C ported, and you never
>mention the GNU C++..!!
G++ has been ported, I think it's on nic.funet.fi. Turbo-C, who cares?
The ST version isn't even made by borland anymore? Not to mention that
GCC beta2 beats most commercial compilers anyway.
>>
>> >--
>> >Addresses:-
>> >JANET:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or susher@uk.ac.csm
>> >Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or susher@csm.ac.uk
>
>There is one computer that you forgot about beats, them all hands down,
>its the Acorn (UK) A540/A5000, its a RISC machine and get a 26 mips
performance,
>so why not go and see if you can find one to look at..
>--
>*** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz ***
>*** 85 Donovan Rd * * GEnie. R.SHEPPARD5 ***
>*** Kapiti At least I don't Flicker, ***
>*** New Zealand.. * not like a dying light globe ***
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 20:36:45 GMT
From: email!eimoni.tuwien.ac.at!KDV_521@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Atarians! Where Are You?!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
"That is not dead which may eternal lie,
yet with strange aeons, even death may die."
H.P.Lovecraft, Call Of Cthulhu
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 21:08:24 GMT
From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!vice!keithr@uunet.uu.net (U.D.M.)
Subject: Atari ST stuff forsale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This is a reposting of stuff I posted on Monday. I've had a lot
of stuff sell, so I thought I'd post the updated list. I've also
add a few items.
You pay shipping. Software titles ship at $2.00 each or $3.00 for
second day air. If you buy several titles the price is flexable.
I have bids on the hard drive, but am still open to bids. Make me
an offer on anything. The worst that could happen is that I would
say no. :-)
Hardware
--------
Atari 1040ST
with Color Monitor 450.00
with Monochrome Monitor 350.00
Supra 20Mb hard drive 200.00
Lantech Local Area Network 150.00
with ADS Universal Network software. Includes two Lantech
Cartridges and cable.
Graphics Applications
---------------------
Migraph Touch Up 50.00
Migraph Easy Draw 2.3 40.00
with Easy Tools
Print Master Plus 15.00
with Fonts and Borders
Publisher ST 35.00
Games
-----
Eagles Nest 10.00
Word Processors
---------------
Word Flair II 40.00
Word Writer 20.00
Haba Writer 5.00
with Haba Spell
Spreadsheets
------------
LDW Power 50.00
Accounting
----------
Phaser 4.01 30.00
Home Accountant 5.00
Programming Languages
---------------------
Mark Williams C v 3.0 50.00
with csd source debugger
Desk Acc
--------
Migraph OSpooler 15.00
Codehead Multi-Desk 10.00
Codehead CodeKeys 15.00
Communications
--------------
Flash 1.6 10.00
ST-Talk 5.00
Game Creator Software
---------------------
STOS Game Creator 15.00
TaleSpin 15.00
Misc Stuff
----------
dBMAN 5.10 75.00
Migraph DeskJet GDOS Driver 20.00
with 3 150/300dpi fonts
Turbo ST 10.00
Word Quest 10.00
Word Quest 2 10.00
Neo Desk 2.0 15.00
Neo Desk 3.0 35.00
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 20:16:50 GMT
From: sae!sae.com!malay@uunet.uu.net (Bob Malay)
Subject: Clipart ".img" files
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I downloaded a bunch of clipart files from a.a and they are in some sort
of GEM (.img) format. How can I convert these into MacPaint or PICT images
so I can use them on my GCR??
Bob Malay
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 14:22:02 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!spool.mu.edu!samsung!n
star!syscon!carl@arizona.edu (Carl Kreider)
Subject: Darn brevity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
rosenkra@convex.com (William Rosenkranz) writes:
In comp.sys.atari.st you write:
> memory fails, but i remember GNU being at least 1.5x alcyon (both 16-bit).
> the point about compilers having non-trivial impact on performance is
> nevertheless valid. i consider 10 percent or more significant so megamax's
I agree with you that compilers make a difference. I thought that was
clear at least from my statment about Alcyon vs. MegaMax vs. GNU. I also
consider 10 percent to be significant. My quest for speed started this
whole dialog. I still say that given the state of the art in compilers
that the major difference in my origional example is hardware. While I
appreciate your concern for not abusing benchmarking, I can buy or write
a better compiler. I can't speed up the memory system once I have
purchased the hardware. Which brings us full circle. My current non-GUI
system is a homebrew 030 at 20 MHz running 5 cycle access to memory without
burst. It gets around 5600 dhrystones using dnry 2.0 and GNU compiler.
Given similar test conditoions, will a TT be faster? How good is the
TT memory design? Should I instead get a Small SST and an old Mega?
How good is the SST? What would you buy with $2500?
--
Carl Kreider
CIS 71076,76
Usenet ....!syscon.rn.com!carl
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 20:34:20 GMT
From: email!eimoni.tuwien.ac.at!KDV_521@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Darn brevity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well, as far as I know the NeXT has 25507 Dhrystones (the 68040) !!!
I don't think the Amiga is very close to that speed!!!!!!
M.Yannikos
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 19:53:34 GMT
From: email!eimoni.tuwien.ac.at!KDV_521@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Desktop background
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
If the program you mentioned is the one I know of, it can display Hi-rez
screens on the desktop background too, just with a different filename!!
But since I don't have this program (anymore) I'm sorry, but I can't tell
you the filename! But if you use a disk monitor to have a closer look at
the program you might be able to find out what filenames it loads...
M.Yannikos
PS. The program I mean is 2048 bytes if I remember it well...
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 20:29:51 GMT
From: email!eimoni.tuwien.ac.at!KDV_521@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Does anybody know...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does anybody know...
- How to connect a second SCSI harddisk to a Mega STE, without having to
buy a tower kit? Is it possible at all with the built-in SCSI controller?
- Why the gnu 'gcc.ttp' can't run in the background under MiNT 0.91,
if called with '&' the next programs called can't get a PROC structure
(at least that's the message I get :) ).
- If there is an accelerator board available for the Mega STE, using
a 32-Bit processor (maybe even an 68040???).
- If a 68881 coprocessor can be used directly with line-f floating-point
instructions in the Mega STE when connected properly, since the line-f
vector isn't used by GEM anymore?
- Which graphics cards's video memory can be accessed directly by programs
without having to use hardware registers, drivers etc., i.e. using
normal move instructions??? (I mean the new VGA cards)
Thanks in advance,
M.Yannikos
KDV_521@eiaida.tuwien.ac.at (TU Vienna, Austria)
------------------------------
Date: 23 Jan 92 21:20:06 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpcc05!hpcuhb!hpindda!goo@hplabs.hp.com (Michael Goo)
Subject: easter eggs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>RIFFEGL@PURCCVM.BITNET writes...
>
> Does anyone know where I can get a good file with hints, cheats, tips and
>tricks for games? I know some of these are fondly called "easter eggs".
>I am particularly interested in ST and Lynx games.
Try comp.sys.amiga.games for the "Amiga games cheat list" (or something like
that). The Atari and Amiga have many games in common and often the "Easter
Eggs" are the same for both platforms.
Try rec.games.video for cheat list for all major home systems, including the
Lynx.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Goo |
Hewlett-Packard | "I never try to cover my ass...
Information Networks Division | but I certainly support your right to do so!"
hpinddh.cup.hp.com |
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 23 Jan 92 20:11:30 GMT
From: infonode!ingr!b11!jmack@uunet.uu.net (Cery McCormick)
Subject: Finishing Dungeon Master
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Since we're on the subject of Dungeon Master, I'm playing it again for
the second time. I had read somewhere that if you 'throw' the firestaff
out of the room from where you first got it, rather than walking out
with it, then the upper levels will not be closed up to you. I can't
remember where I read this. I'm only on level 5 now, but could someone
substantiate this information about the firestaff? I would love to be
able to walk back through the dungeon with a firestaff and show those
purple worms on level 4 a thing or two!
| J. Cary McCormick | Intergraph Corporation |
| | jmack@gunshop.b11.ingr.com (205) 730-6185 |
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 18:18:09 GMT
From: dkoski@arizona.edu (David Koski)
Subject: Finishing Dungeon Master
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan23.201130.15999@b11.ingr.com> jmack@b11.ingr.com (Cery
McCormick) writes:
>Since we're on the subject of Dungeon Master, I'm playing it again for
>the second time. I had read somewhere that if you 'throw' the firestaff
>out of the room from where you first got it, rather than walking out
>with it, then the upper levels will not be closed up to you.
OK, here it is:
grab the power gem with the firestaff. turn around. throw firestaff. leave.
There is a trigger in the doorway that goes off when you go accross with the
firestaff. If you listen carefuly, you can hear it (that is how I found it).
David Koski
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 20:09:28 GMT
From: email!eimoni.tuwien.ac.at!KDV_521@uunet.uu.net
Subject: GCC questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
SH.TTP or SH.PRG is available for anonymous ftp'ing on various sites
in an archive called UXTOOLS.ZOO (or .ARC). I suppose it's available
at sol.cs.ruu.nl or wuarchive.wustl.edu.
Marinos Yannikos
TU-Vienna
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 20:57:45 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!usc!orion.oac.uci.edu!unogate!mvb.saic.com
!steveg@arizona.edu (Stephen Harold Goldstein)
Subject: JRD's port of GNU Emacs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm using John Dunning's port of GNU Emacs and like it alot except for
one annoying problem. Can anyone help me:
Get the file loader to stop stripping out Ctl-M's (cr's) from my ST
text files? It's a real pain to have to replace all LF's with CR/LF
pairs everytime I go to save, and GNU Emacs on my Unix box has no
trouble preserving 'hard' CR's, so why should the ST version?
Similarly, how would I go about creating a mode (or defining the key)
so pressing enter caused CR and LF to be inserted?
(Bonus Question): What is the name of the .el file (and where does it
live) that I can put startup commands into? On my Unix box here it's
".emacs" but that obviously won't work on the ST.
--
---
Stephen Goldstein steveg@cseic.saic.com
My first Atari system? A 24K Atari 800, Rev. A ROMS, C(not G)TIA graphics
Disclaimer: That's not what I said.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 17:11:35 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs
.ohio-state.edu!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!wsu-cs!jake!pbh@arizona.edu (Patrick
Haggood)
Subject: Multifinder for Atari-ST ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>In article <29446@imag.imag.fr> maraninx@imag.fr (Florence Maraninchi) writes:
>>Or perhaps someone can find another way of solving my problem :
>>I would like to use a Lisp interpreter which does not allow to call an editor.
>>And I don't want to quit the interpreter, then to load the editor, etc...
>>for each modification of the source.
I don't know Prolog from ADA(m) (forced pun, sorry) but I found that by
modifying the macros file that came with C-Breeze, I am now able to
compile G++ from the menu bar, ala Turbo-C on PC's. Works pretty well,
too. You can probably find C-Breeze for less than $20 mail order; I
think I bought mine at a WAACE for around that.
--
"Again, the kingdom of heaven is like unto a net,"
Matthew 13:47
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1992 16:13 EST
From: CSULLOGG@crl.aecl.ca
Subject: multifinder for the ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Since I use Multifinder while in Mac mode on my ST (under GCR) I think that
I am qualified to say YES, a close equivalent does exist for the ST and TT.
It's MultiGEM. Right now, I am using STalker (not the .ACC version but the
.PRG version) with WordPlus and Pagestream both in memory. Just like
MultiFinder I can easily task switch. However, unlike Mac programs, many
for the Atari lay down objects on the desktop (like the Fkey icons for
WordPlus and the tools box for Pagestream) and as such, you have to make
sure that these objects don't interfere with each other. Fortunately, on
a TTM195 monitor (1280x960) that's easy. On the 640x400 its harder but with
a bit of fiddling you can have a very close work-alike to MultiFinder on
the ST.
One word of caution; make sure GDOS or G+Plus is AFTER MultiGEM in your
AUTO folder.
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 16:53:15 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ukma!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!agate!stanford.edu!rock!sas!mozart.unx.sas
.com!wagner.unx.sas.com!egon.unx.sas.com!snoret@arizona.edu (Rick Tatem)
Subject: Spectre users unite!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1992Jan23.194707.3931@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>
wmagro@firenze.physics.uiuc.edu (William Magro) writes:
>
>Are there enough spectre users out there to get a new newsgroup going?
>I don't remember the rules for starting a new newsgroup. Anyone want
>to refresh me? We could have comp.sys.atari.st.spectre and we could
>share problems, experiences, successes, etc. there.
>
>Any interest?
>
>--Bill
Yes! I think there is. And if you include people like me (who don't yet
own a spectre but who are diligently scraping together every loose nickel
and dime they have to get one) you would find quite a bit of interest.
And with a newsgroup for spectre users, it would just help increase it's
own size by giving those folks who (somewhat like me) have been living
under a rock ( or just nowhere near an Atari dealer ... oops, I guess
that's just about everybody :) the chance to learn more about the
product and its capabilities, making it more likely that they'll get
one.
Just MH2CW,
Rick
----
Rick Tatem __-__ _
snoret@unx.sas.com =========@ ============ *#__===___
UNIX Support ___\\____ / /_ `'%%%%%%%%*#*--(0)---\
SAS Institute, Inc. \______________{ @* @
------------------------------
Date: 24 Jan 92 21:36:43 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!gatech!swrinde!sdd.hp.com!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!pinelr@arizon
a.edu (Robert Jeffrey Pinelli)
Subject: TOS chipsets (was Re: What to do?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <ENTROPY.92Jan23184939@wookumz.gnu.ai.mit.edu> entropy@gnu.ai.mit.edu
(maximum entropy) writes:
>
>I'm considering doing a TOS 1.4 upgrade in my circa-1987 1040 ST.
>(rev. D motherboard.) Where are the TOS roms located? I found a
>group of 6 chips under the power supply that looks like it might be
>the TOS, but I'd like to be sure, so that I don't order the wrong set
>and find out from the installation instructions that I was looking at
>the wrong thing and really need a 2-chip set.
Ok. In my Mega, the ROMS were sitting quite close to the 68000 and no-
where near the power supply. The ROMS will be sitting in plug-in sockets
(not soldered in!) and I believe they are labeled with numbers beginning
with 'C09...', or at least 'C0...'. Oh yeah... and the sockets should be
labeled U0, U1, U2, and L0, L1, L2 (for six chip sets, which you probably
have.) The three L sockets might be alternately labeled with U* instead.
Hope this helped.
--Rob
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
