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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 621
Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 27 Nov 91 Volume 91 : Issue 621
Today's Topics:
Administrativa, volume 1 #1
Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
Binkley ST ?
DBase III+ clones ?
Dhrystone Lattice C / Dhrystone PureC !!
Formatting REAL SCSI drives.
High rez boards for STEs
How good is Hippo C ????
How is Atari doing in Europe now?
HP DESKJET 500 Color : Experiences wanted
Mint does not work with minix filesystem (3 msgs)
MiNT library pl 16
ST Applications
tos 1.2
TT is NOT expensive
ZIP for the ST
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 07:33:45 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!ox.com!umich!terminator!ter
minator.cc.umich.edu!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner)
Subject: Administrativa, volume 1 #1
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Howdy y'all....consider this a substitute monthly posting from atari.archive
until I can revamp the regular format.....
Interesting things to note:
1. I have finished cleaning out new. Thanks to all those who uploaded
files, and a sorry that I couldn't get to them sooner. I have been
ridiculously busy lately.
2. I have not had a chance to get to the stuff in my mailbox. Please
be patient. I'm going home for Thanksgiving and will not think about
thouching any of it until Sunday. Thanks.
3. Many people have been asking why they are not allowed ftp access.
The situation is this: the archive's host machine attemts to map a name to
an ip# before it will allow an anonymous ftp connection. If it cannot
perform this, it will nuke your connection. How to fix it? Ask your
sys-admin to properly register your machine's name. After this is
done, the problem will resolve itself the next tiem your nameserver
refreshes itself.
4. Gnustuff is under reconstruction (still). Please check the file
gnustuff/Index and gnustuff/ls-lR before asking me where the files are.
Graham is working on it, but he too is ridiculously busy. We are aware
of what needs to be done here, we will get to it in good time. Thanks
for patience and cooperation.
5. No, bart is not down. Reread the help file.
6. Ed Krimen: My mail to you keeps bouncing for no good reason. I got
the uploads and will take care of them this weekend. Thanks.
7. I have no connection to comp.{binaries, sources}.atari.st. I do not
moderate them, nor do I have any connection to them. Uploading
something to atari.archive is not the same as having them sent to
the newsgroups. I do not and will not forward them.
8. For those of you who celebrate Thanksgiving, make it a good one. :)
Greetings from Ann Arbor,
weiner
--
Jeff Weiner --- weiner@atari.archive.umich.edu --- Umich atari posse
Corner of Packard and State, 2nd house from Blue Front on Arbor
718 Arbor, Ann Arbor, MI 48104, +1 313 998 0892, near the Univ. of Michigan
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 19:10:28 GMT
From: cadence!cadence.com!bammi@uunet.uu.net (Jwahar R. Bammi)
Subject: Atari Sys 5 Unix- any owners out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Warning: Flames ahead: i usually dont flame but this one got my goat :-)
In article <9939@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>
> I have developed under a half dozen different UNIX machines in the lasst ten
years. All the way back to the original AT&T 3B2 when I worked at Bell Labs.
My condolences, the old 3B2 is about the worst unix system i
have ever had the misfortune to be on.
> First, the TT is a bit underpowered seeing as how it is basically just
> a 16MHz 68030. Oh I know the CPU is running at 32MHz but the I/O buss
> is still 16MHz and UNIX is VERY I/O intensive (can you say disk swapping?).
This is complete BS. Have you ever heard of caches (both
processor and disk), What figures do you have to substantiate this, or
are you just blowing hot air and wasting net bandwidth.
> Also, their UNIX X Windows pack requires the $1,000 monochrome monitor
> as the native TT color resolutions aren't high enough to support decent
> X Windows.
have you ever heard of virtal desktops?? I am running ST80
on a lowly 640x400 mono with a large virtual desktop, and it is
extemely crisp and usable thank you.
> And Atari is shipping the GNU compilers, which while excellent are NOT
> commerically supported compilers. Try getting technical support if the
> compiler breaks and you don't have access to USENET. Do you want to spend
> your precious development time debugging your development tools or
> writing your project? Thats why you need professional, commerically
How many times have you tried to get support for a C compiler
from a commercial vendor (especially a workstation vendor). You
obviously have not (we port our simulator to 22 different platforms
and believe me we know!). Besides, Gnu C for the m68k is about the
most stable, and higest quality compiler you are going to find out
there. Compare it with any 68K commercial compiler you care to.
> system would cost. I would rather pay the same bucks and buy a Mac IIFX
> with Apple's A/UX. At least I know Apple will be around for awhile!!
boy you must enjoy getting ripped off .... there are much more
reasonable alternatives out there, even if you are averse to atari.
richard, quit wasting bandwidth.
--
--
bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi
domain: bammi@cadence.com
GEnie: J.Bammi
CIS: 71515,155
------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 91 07:49:36 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!horga!ruhr.de!sunnies!nathan.do.open.de!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo
Erdelhoff)
Subject: Binkley ST ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <5357@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au>, Warwick Allison writes:
>I have heard Binkley ST (apparently it's a BBS program) is PD.
Binkley or better BinkleyTerm/ST is not a BBS program, but a mailer for
Fidonet. Something like out Usenet's uucico...
/s/
--
Udo Erdelhoff ue@nathan.do.open.de Fido: Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 08:33:32 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!eur.nl!bihack@uunet.uu.net (Floris J. Hack)
Subject: DBase III+ clones ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi there,
In the near future I may have to do some extensive programming
with DBase III+. At the moment I am using the (german)
DBase III+ clone STandard Base version 2.1, dated 1987, from
Format Software.
Has there been a recent update of this package ? (Or better
said, are the makers still in business ?)
I have worked a little with this program and it seems quite
compatible, but not 100%.
Are there also any other DBase III+ clones available for
the Atari ST ?
Any experience with one of them ?
Thanks
----
Floris Hack
bihack@cs.few.eur.nl
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 13:38:40 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!urmel!hathi!michaels@uunet.uu.net (Michael Schwingen)
Subject: Dhrystone Lattice C / Dhrystone PureC !!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura) writes:
>1991/11/15
>'Stoning the Lattice C
> It's not true that I thrive on benchmarking. But I get curious.
>While grabbing a file that had immediate importance to me, I found
>this Dhrystone package and it occurred to me that I hadn't seen any
>stats on the Lattice C 5.06.02 compiler posted yet. So I thought
>I'd take some time and do some testing.
>-O (Global optimizer) 18,262 bytes
>100,000 recursions gave 1,190 Dhry/sec (840 microseconds)
> and 1,162 Dhry/sec (860 microseconds)
>All values verified.
>(Note that this indicates that the automatic 'register'
>declarations is at least as good as the registers declared in
>the Dhrystone program, so there doesn't seem to be any point
>in testing the "-mr" switch further.)
I have come across the Dhrystone 2.1 sources last week (a complete
version with docs) and decided to try them on my new Pure-C compiler
(which is the new version of Turbo-C). The results were surprising (I
give the results in the form of the supplied report form):
DHRYSTONE 2.1 BENCHMARK REPORTING FORM
MANUF: Atari Corp.
MODEL: 1040STF
PROC: 68000
CLOCK: 8MHz
OS: Atari TOS
OVERSION: 1.4
COMPILER: PureC
CVERSION: 20Sep91
OPTIONS: -DMSC_CLOCK
NOREG: 1719
REG: 1715
NOTES: Compiler uses registers for function arguments, int = 16 bits
DATE: 11/20/91
SUBMITTER: michaels@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
MAILTO: uunet!pcrat!dry2
DHRYSTONE 2.1 BENCHMARK REPORTING FORM
MANUF: Atari Corp.
MODEL: 1040STF
PROC: 68000
CLOCK: 8MHz
OS: Atari TOS
OVERSION: 1.4
COMPILER: PureC
CVERSION: 20Sep91
OPTIONS: -DMSC_CLOCK
NOREG: 1468
REG: 1468
NOTES: Compiler uses registers for function arguments, int = 32 bits
DATE: 11/20/91
SUBMITTER: michaels@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
MAILTO: uunet!pcrat!dry2
DHRYSTONE 2.1 BENCHMARK REPORTING FORM
MANUF: Atari Corp.
MODEL: 1040STF
PROC: 68000
CLOCK: 8MHz
OS: Atari TOS
OVERSION: 1.4
COMPILER: PureC
CVERSION: 20Sep91
OPTIONS: -DMSC_CLOCK -Z -R
NOREG: 1019
REG: ----
NOTES: Register-Optimization turned off, int = 32 bits
DATE: 11/20/91
SUBMITTER: michaels@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
MAILTO: uunet!pcrat!dry2
When using my Hypercache 16MHz-speeder board, the best result was 3030
Dhrystones for the 16-bit-int-version. I think it is especially
interesting that none of the machines listed in the >100K report file
which had a 68000 with up to 10 MHz had results of more than about 1000
Dhrystones.
It seems that the PureC-optimizer does a good task when optimizing the
register allocations and when passing function arguments in registers.
On the other hand, it could be that this benchmark is not suitable for a
compiler with that type of optimizations :-)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Schwingen, Ahornstrasse 36, W-5100 Aachen, Germany +49 0241 876165
michaels@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de
(michaels@tolkien.imsd.rwth-aachen.de) IRC: ms on +atari or Errol
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 91 09:39:53 GMT
From: Dave Wade <DAVEW%D.SSS.CO.UK@VTVM2.CC.VT.EDU>
Subject: Formatting REAL SCSI drives.
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi folks,
I am trying to get my "home brew" hard drive working. I have an ST125N
<Yes I know 20 Megs is tiny but I got two at a good price>
and a BBDP Electronics DMA <=> SCSI board. I think my problem is that
the ST125N may have been re-formatted with 1K blocks at some point in time.
I have tried using both the ATARI software and the BBDP stuff, and they
both find and identify the disk correctly, but then object to the format.
The ATARI software suggests that I re-format the disk, but both the
ATARI and BBDP formatters only work for drives on an
ST506 adaptor card, not real SCSI drives. Does any one have any software
to re-run the low-level format on a "real" scsi drive.
If I ever get it going which software should I use to run the drive. If
its other than the ATARI or BBDP software how do I get a copy.
Also I seem to remember a recent posting about a version of TAR which would
talk to SCSI tape drive but I can't seem to find it any where. Can someone
point me in the right direction.
+------------------------------------------------------------+
| VM Sysprogs do it virtually all of the time !!!!! |
| Reply To:- |
| Janet:- DAVEW@UK.CO.SSS.D |
| Bitnet:-DAVEW@D.SSS.CO.UK (Also most places outside UK) |
+------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 09:47:57 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!piet@uunet.uu.net (Piet van Oostrum)
Subject: High rez boards for STEs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have seen an announcement of ODIN, a VGA board for ALL Atari's. It is
from a Swiss company called Marvin or so (Zurich, I think). I don't know if
you can buy it in the USA. The special thing about this one is that it must
not be built into the Atari, but it goes between the monitor plug and the
monitor!! In fact it uses the standard video exit as a high speed serial
link to send the info to the card.
--
Piet* van Oostrum, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University,
Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Telephone: +31 30 531806 Uucp: uunet!mcsun!ruuinf!piet
Telefax: +31 30 513791 Internet: piet@cs.ruu.nl (*`Pete')
------------------------------
Date: 26 Nov 91 18:06:30 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!uwm.edu!linac!att!att!mcdchg!tellab5!chinet!saj@arizo
na.edu (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: How good is Hippo C ????
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9938@cactus.org> covert@cactus.org (Richard Covert) writes:
>
>In fact the only ST book still in
>print is Clayton Walthum's excellent book.
>
This must come as a terrible surprise to Ralph Turner, who just published
his third book on the ST. So it's not on internals. Have you priced a set
of Inside Macintosh lately? The price of developer registration doesn't look
out of line in comparison. I wouldn't recommend the Apple docs for light
reading any more than I'd recommend the Atari docs. They get the job done.
Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us
------------------------------
Date: 22 Nov 91 12:30:28 GMT
From: psinntp!tfd!afp!gna!linn!Marco.Fris@uunet.uu.net (Marco Fris)
Subject: How is Atari doing in Europe now?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a message of <01 Nov 91 04:16:37>, aa399@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
(2:320/100.1) writes:
> I have also heard that ALL new software for the ST takes advantage of
> the STe features.
First time I heard that. My understanding is that there is hardly anything but
demo's for the STE features, with the notable exception of some sound stuff.
BTW: does anyone on the *nix side of this area actually read this? I _never_
get any replies ...
- Marco -
--- And now ... number one ... The Larch.
Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.fidonet.org
or Marco.Fris@p11.f202.n281.z2.linn.gna.tfd.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1991 09:15 GMT +0100
From: "Axel Wagner,Inst.f.Kernphysik,Becherweg 45,6500 Mainz,Tel.:06131-395841,
FAX: 06131-392964, WAGNER@VKPMZA.KPH.Uni-Mainz.de"
Subject: HP DESKJET 500 Color : Experiences wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello out there,
has someone of you any experiences with the
HP DESKJET 500 COLOR Printer ?
Any informations and experiences are highly
recommended!
Thanks in advance, Axel
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Axel Wagner wagner@vkpmza.kph.uni-mainz.de
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 08:38:58 GMT
From: mcsun!sun4nl!alchemy!ruunfs!ruunfs!muts@uunet.uu.net (Peter Mutsaers)
Subject: Mint does not work with minix filesystem
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I tried mint 0.9 or 0.91 with a minix partition that I created once
with minit.ttp (in mint/minix) and once with mkfs from minix (1.1!).
My harddisk software is hdx 3.01 etc.
In minixfs.doc there were some comments about difficulties with minix
filesystems, but I could not track down what the problem is here.
Could anyone help me?
Thanks in advance,
--
_________________________________________________________________________
Peter Mutsaers. RUU physics dept. Heidelberglaan 5, Utrecht, Nederland
muts@fysap.fys.ruu.nl |================================================
tel: (+31)-(0)30-533880 | Memento Mori
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 13:15:51 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!bcc.ac.uk!ucacmsu@uunet.uu.net (Mr Stephen R Usher)
Subject: Mint does not work with minix filesystem
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The problems you are having are caused partly due to AHDI and partly due to
older versions of minit and Minix.
Minix and older versions of minit produce partitions with zeroed out fields
in the BPB. ICD and other hard disk drivers handle this gracefully, AHDI,
however, does not and refuses to access the partition.
I had this problem, luckily I've also got an ICD drive and a new version of
minit. This allowed me to use minit's -p option to correct the BPB's on my
Minix partitions, now I can read them from MiNT under AHDI 4.XX on my TT.
I hope this is of some help.
Steve
--
Addresses:-
JANET:- ucacmsu@uk.ac.ucl or susher@uk.ac.csm
Internet:- ucacmsu@ucl.ac.uk or susher@csm.ac.uk
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 16:01:55 GMT
From: mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!shenson@uunet.uu.net (Stephen Norman
Henson)
Subject: Mint does not work with minix filesystem
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This is an AHDI problem. You need a fairly valid boot sector for your
minix partitions to be readable by AHDI. UNfortunately if you have used
mkfs from minix 1.1 the boot sector may have been wiped. I have a fix
for the AHDI problems and I will distribute it with version 0.53 of the
filesystem, which is currently under test. A temporary solution to the
problem is to copy a boot sector from a GEM partition used by TOS ,
preferably the same size as the minix partition. You will have have
to do this under minix with a command like :
dd if=/dev/hd1 of=/dev/hd3 count=1
where hd1 is the TOS partition and hd3 the minix one. This should work , but
beware : if you try to write to this partition under TOS , without MiNT and
minixfs running you will trash the partition, this is fixed in 0.53 as well.
If anyone else has any problems with the minix filesystem for MiNT,
please use email, as I could well miss a posting or two.
I'll send version 0.53 to atari.archive when its been tested a bit
more thoroughly (about a week or so).
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 07:02:06 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!yale.edu!think.com!rpi!news-server.c
sri.toronto.edu!helios.physics.utoronto.ca!julian!uwovax.uwo.ca!7103_2622@arizo
na.edu (Eric Smith)
Subject: MiNT library pl 16
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Patchlevel 16 of the MiNT libraries is now available for anonymous FTP
from atari.archive.umich.edu. This version contains a number of enhancements,
particularly in the TOS compatibility code, some bug fixes, and some
changes to header files that should make porting to other compilers a bit
easier.
The relevant files are: mint/mntlib16.zoo (library source code),
mint/mntinc16.zoo (header files), and mint/mntolb16.zoo (compiled libraries).
There's also a mint/libup16.zoo that contains just the differences from
patchlevel 15.
--
Eric R. Smith email:
Dept. of Mathematics eric.smith@uwo.ca
University of Western Ontario 7103_2622@uwovax.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 16:25:29 GMT
From: mcsun!uknet!jet!dba@uunet.uu.net (dennis armstrong)
Subject: ST Applications
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <15269@castle.ed.ac.uk> robin@castle.ed.ac.uk (R C Smith) writes:
>Does anyone subscribe to ST Applications (I think that is what it is
>called) from the ST Club. If so what do you think?
>It cannot be any worse than all the (game) magazines available from the
>shops.
>Robin Smith
I agree with you about the "game" magazines the best one IMHO is ST USER
which has got much better since the change in style. The GAMER supplement
can now be removed and discarded with little problem. It still is however
a USER magazine and not a developer magazine.
May I suggest the French ST MAGAZINE
subscriptions from:
ST MAGAZINE ABONNEMENTS
36, Rue de PICPUS
75012 PARIS
The November issue contains technical articles about hardware and software
1. Programmation avancee en GFA BASIC
2. Animation 3D (6th part)
3. La norme XBRA
4. Les interfaces serie du TT (part 2)
5. Les objets "USERDEF"
including printed listings for the above in Assembler and GFA basic
They do reviews as well
6. NeoDesk v3.02
7. La carte Reflex
8. Type Art
And interviews
9. Le petite monde de Dave Small
10 Paris pour Les Jeunes
the issue also contained le dossier musique describing the various soundtraker
programs availiable (Protracker, Equinox, Noisetracker etc)
There is also a disk availiable with the magazine.
This magazine is availiable in many small towns in France. I just wonder
why a similar magazine with a high technical content is not availiable in
Britain?.
Perhaps some other European readers of this group may like to describe the
magazines availiable in their countries.
Is it possible to connect to the French Minitel system (3615 etc..) from
the U.K.?
Regards
Dennis Armstrong
--
__. .__________________________. ._____________________________________________
__| |___. .__. ._____. .____| |_____________________________________________
| | | | | | Dennis Armstrong, CODAS division
| | | |___. | | Joint European Torus
| | | :___| | | Abingdon, Oxfordshire, UK
| | | | | | Tel 0235 528822 Ex 4871
|%__' : | `---. | | dba@jet.uk
%-----% +------+ +--+
- Disclaimer: Please note that the above is a personal view and should not
be construed as an official comment from the JET project.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 16:48:26 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!deccr
l!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!kreeta!luoto@arizona.edu
(Markku Luoto)
Subject: tos 1.2
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
anyone there to sell me the TOS version 1.2 ??? preferably the english
speaking version....
yes, on rom's just in case you were thinking of disks !!!
thank's for your precious ;-) time
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>> " I'm completely operational & all my cicuits are functioning <<<<<<
>>>>>> correctly...correc...corr...co...-! " : HAl9000 <<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Nov 1991 09:02:00 -0500
From: CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA
Subject: TT is NOT expensive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The last few net postings had a number of netters who stated that the TT
is expensive. A two meg TT with 50 meg HD costs $CDN 1859 locally. I do
not consider this expensive at all. I use my TT for DTP, wordprocessing
spreadsheets and database work and I have a TTM195 1280x960 monitor. I
make the 386/486 machines in my workplace look like simplistic toys
as these users struggle with slow WINDOWs printing, cryptic ZSTEM
telecommunications, and small screen (VGA) work. I would not give up
my TT for a 386/486 box no matter what Darek and Richard profess!!!!
------------------------------
Date: 27 Nov 91 18:06:01 GMT
From: agate!usenet.ins.cwru.edu!cleveland.Freenet.Edu!al885@ames.arpa (Gerard
Pinzone)
Subject: ZIP for the ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In a previous article, atilghma@sdcc13.ucsd.edu (Adam Tilghman) says:
>In article <50704@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>>Gerard Pinzone writes:
>>>I need a program that ZIP's files on the ST. Currently, there only exists
>>>a beta version of one on atari.archive.umich.edu and it's really buggy.
>>I've only seen UNzip programs for the ST,
> You might try ST-Zip 0.9, which can compress ZIP files... Or
>this might be the buggy beta version :-) [However, I have used
>0.9 to compress ZIP files without any problems]
>
>
That's's ther version I'm using, but if the file is over 94k, It fails...
--
_______ ________ ________ "Small nose, loose girls, no nipples, (.|.)
/ ___/ / _____/ / __ / Iczer curls!" -=- Gerard Pinzone ).(
/ ___/ / /____ / __ / gpinzone@george.poly.edu ( v )
/______/ /_______/ /__/ /__/ Join the ECA Wehrmacht! Kill CM! \|/
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
