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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 381
=========================================================================
640x800 on SM 124 with STE
Amiga/Atari
Amiga is better then [sic] what???
APPLE + IBM Agreement
GNU emacs (still can't get it to work)
lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is
Midi maze ll (2 msgs)
Multi Lingual Word Processor
Multitasking for ST (to sell)
PageStream VS Calmus
Please...
Portfolio in Terminator 2?
Quick ST v. 3 - When?
Really dumb question about the 68000
software QDOS emulators on the ST?
Sybex STe/TT systems book
TT memory allocation
Two Questions
Wanted: Atari 1040ST
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 23:05:00 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!k2.maus.de!Christoph_Br
egulla@uunet.uu.net (Christoph Bregulla)
Subject: 640x800 on SM 124 with STE
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi,
I searched for the big screen emulators at ABK-BBS in Norway... But I couldn't
find them ! The call cost me about DM10.- :-(
Are the emulators there or not ?
Ciao
Christoph
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 14:31:19 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!udel!haven.umd.edu!uvaarpa!vger.nsu.
edu!manes@arizona.edu ((Mark D. Manes), Norfolk State University)
Subject: Amiga/Atari
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul5.203125.3818@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>, ykidron@isis.cs.du.edu
(Yaron kidron) writes:
> Hello there!
>
> I would like to comment over the latest issues posted in this news net. I
> was really stunned after I've seen the total amount of gibberish non-sense
> submitted by other computer users. I was so shocked, I started laughing at it.
It has been funny--for the most part.
> [Introduction etc. deleted]
>
> A person which compares computers by specifics and raves the differences
> around is not a computer enthusiast. He is a dimwit which I wouldn't like to
> see using a computer. Computers is not his profession or hobby, and he would
> more suitable to be a politician. Tom, that line was refered to you.
Ack. Such sweeping generalizations! The word 'enthusiast' implies
enthusiasm, excitement and general up-beat attitude toward a particular
object, subject or whatever.
I consider myself a computer enthusiast and I have participated in
discussions about different machine/software constructions. So I
guess I object to being labeled a 'dimwit'.
>
> Furthermore, A computer can not be compared to other computers. As I see
it,
> my computers are as dear to me as others pets. You can not compare a dog to a
> cat, either financialy nor mentaly. A computer is a complex, non-linear
> construction of electronics, software, and evidently, money. I can never do
any
> comparison of my 386 with my Casio fx82 calculator. There are things my 386
> does better, but there are things my Casio can do better as well.
A computer can be compared to other computers. You must have done it
in order for you to select your 386. You compared the ST to the 386 and
discovered that you could not develop Intel software on your ST.
Your posting smells of political correctness. It seems in our society
that if you don't accept everything as "wonderful" you are considered
a dimwit, or at the very least uninformed. There are obvisous benefits
and disadvantages to every purchase (computer or not) and it is silly to
simply say "well it does what I want it too" and not learn from the
experience.
The problem is that people are too sensitive. Everyone has to think
that _they_ have selected the best. The days of decent technical
merit discussions have changed to the days of mine is better than
yours arguments based in marketspeak.
The problem with computers and users today is that they in general
are far too complacent. We don't demand excellence and we don't
get excellence. Don't believe me? Look at Microsoft, they quit
releasing excellent performing software when they released MS/DOS 1.0.
We as a group no longer look at the technical merits, instead we
look at what our neighbor has and decide that if he has a 286 I
must have a 386. I call this Volvo envy. Gone is the time when
people make intelligent decisions based on how a product performs.
There is nothing wrong yelling from the treetops when you have
discovered something wonderful. In this world there is very little
that is truly wonderful. The problem is nobody wants to know what
is "better".
Most folks want to live in their private little worlds and not have
their dreams shattered. It is a shame.
There is something wrong with gloating. That is the crime in these
psstings. Gloating is an exercise of chest-puffing and _is_ a
waste of net bandwidth.
>
> Bringing us to the matter. Comparing non-linear concepts with a linear (
our
> mind ) material is totally worthless. I programmed the Amiga, and I programmed
> the ST. But I never said to myself: 'Oh look, that routine runs better on that
> Commodore machine'. No way. I just done my job, and enjoyed both of the
worlds.
> Why fight? Why bring up such stupid text to a network? Why tire the computers
> for such bullshit?
>
Actually if I had not done these comparisons I would still be using my
Timex Sinclair 1000. To stay competitive in the business of computers
you _must_ know what other people are using and why, because if you
don't you are likely to wake up and find that the world has left you.
That is why I read comp.sys.atari.st and the other newsgroups. I do
not want to be ignorant of what is happening. I can't afford to be.
> The ST is a fine machine. It's great. So is the Amiga. I have many
> complaints for Atari themselves, by not supporting their machine, but I have
no
> problems whatsoever with the machine itself. As a package, enclosed with a
very
> resonable price, the ST is a winner.
No comparisons! Your statement should read if you wish to maintian your
political correctness "The ST is a machine. It exists. So does the
Amiga". That way you don't offend anyone.
See this is the problem with the world. It is just like gun control,
instead of controlling the people who mis-use guns the solution is to
get rid of the guns. See the point?
>
>[Lots of comparisons and marketing thoughts deleted]
>
>
> Finally, lets keep this stuff of the net. It's just a waste of money, and
> dear, the life of precious computers around the world. Stop it. It looks like
a
> mud fight in the sewer. Tom, Peter, enjoy your machines. I'll enjoy mine too.
> Behave yourself dudes, grow up. Or otherwise, steer clear from computer life.
> It is not for you.
Let us get the current crap off of the net. I would enjoy a factual
comparison between computers. What Thomas Hill did was wrong, as it
smelled like the kind of help FortWorth-less Jim (Ex-Speaker of the
House) would offer "We...we only wannna help you.."
Yes, I am an Amiga owner. No doubt you figured it out. I also
have owned a c64, Timex 1000, Sanyo MBC-555, Atari ST, 286 and several
Amigas. I enjoy computers but I am never silly enough not to understand
the mistakes in purchases I have made as well as the "excellent"
selections I have made.
If every machine was perfect wouldn't Microsoft have given it to you??
>
> Yaron Kidron,
> s2886663@techst2.technion.ac.il
>
-mark=
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark D. Manes // CIS : 74030,744
System Manager/Programmer // Email: manes@vger.nsu.edu
Norfolk State University \\\// Amiga Phone: (804) 683-2532
---------------------------------------------------------------------------
"AmigaDOS 2.0 is the future of the Amiga -- be a part of it!"
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 02:32:31 GMT
From: esseye!jdbbs!wybbs!therip!FredMail@uunet.uu.net (Rod Fulk)
Subject: Amiga is better then [sic] what???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
No, you misread my post..
Most programs on the ST are powerful enough that they do not need to use
multi tasking to get other features...
Sure the St has very well running TSR's which is the main type of programmost
amiga people do multi task with day to day...
With the inclusion of Desk accessories I can add specioalized functions if the
program doesnt already have them...
I can download in the back ground or upload.. I can run a bbs in the
background too.. (Citadel via one of many multi tasking kernals)
The beef is the ST doesnt really NEED multi tasking...
The current features really make multi tasking pretty worthless for most
functions.
However if you ever want to use a computer as a multi user system well then
niether the ST or the Amiga will work well as is..
* Origin: The R.I.P. (616)235-2313 [HST] (1:228/24)
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 16:22:42 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!shawl@arizona.e
du
Subject: APPLE + IBM Agreement
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Just to get some discussion going: What do you all think will be the
effect on Atari of the recent agreement between Apple and IBM? It seems to me
that it could be deadly.
Steve Shawl
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 04:39:02 GMT
From:
pa.dec.com!hollie.rdg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!aidev.enet.dec.com!miskinis@decw
rl.dec.com (John Miskinis)
Subject: GNU emacs (still can't get it to work)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi,
I've received a few mail messages regarding help on getting GNU
emacs to work. I still get the same error "terminal type atari is now
pwerful enough to run..."
I've tried 3 different termcap files, that people have sent me.
I've updated TERM to be the first string in the definition file, (atari,
atari-st, and vt52-emulator respectively), I point TERMCAP to the
device and directory of the termcap file. This has some effect, as
I don't see any "can't find termcap database" errors...
Does anyone have any more advise, or can a pointer to where I
can buy a disk, or copy the files in a working manner?
Many thanks again!
_John_
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 21:37:00 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!hh.maus.de!Thomas_Quest
er@uunet.uu.net (Thomas Quester)
Subject: lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
ue>Hi Thomas,
ue>>If you get an error-message "Unknown method", your archive is packed with
ue>>LHA 2.xx on a PC. This is impossible to adapt to the atari st until there
ue>>are sources available,
ue>I already sent you the sources for an lh5 extractor/creator via email (on
ue>wednesday). Did you recieve them already? The program works perfect and
ue>very fast (altough it's pure C)...
ue>So the problem with the LHA 2.xx archives using the lh5 compression method
ue>should be over...
It works fine, though it was some work to get it to work in the original
LHarc-Sources. I am looking for a way to post this version
----------------------------------------------------
Thomas Quester * Lampenland 9 * 2050 Hamburg 80
MauTau V 2.2c - Lieber Sex in der Wueste als Sand im Bett.
(Net)
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 19:20:00 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!hh.maus.de!Laurenz_Prue
ssner@uunet.uu.net (Laurenz Pruessner)
Subject: Midi maze ll
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
R C Smith robin%castle.ed.ac.uk @ SUB wrote Mo, 01.07.91 08:07
>>Midi Maze II is shipped with an editor that allows anyone to add mazes. It's
>>not included in the PD-version, but is part of the shareware-package that is
>>available from the developers:
>>
>>The shareware-contribution should be 50.-- DM.
>
>What is 50 DM in either \pounds or $ ?
50 DM is a little less than US$ 30.
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 10:53:00 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!ac2.maus.de!Stefan_Rupp
@uunet.uu.net (Stefan Rupp)
Subject: Midi maze ll
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi,
R C Smith robin%castle.ed.ac.uk @ SUB wrote:
RC>>The shareware-contribution should be 50.-- DM.
RC>What is 50 DM in either \pounds or $ ?
The problem is, that Sigma-Soft (which distributes Midimaze II) has the rights
of the name "Midimaze" just in Germany and Austria. So they are not allowed to
distribute it in the US or somewhere else.
BUT: If you will ship some kind of gift to them, they will send you a new copy
of Midimaze II :-).
The DEM 50,-- is the shareware-conrtibution in Germany. So, if you want to get
Midimaze from the US, think of a bonus. DEM 50,-- are probably 30 US-$
Ciao,
struppi
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 15:06:23 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpnmdla!frankh@hplabs.hp.com (Frank Hamlin)
Subject: Multi Lingual Word Processor
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
My uncle is looking for a multi lingual word processor for printing both
English and Greek. He was shown a program called "Power Writer and
Multi Lingual Word Processor." This program was run on an Atari ST
computer, but they had no documentation. He was able to get the
following information:
The program was written by
Power Systems
13406 NE 84 ST.
Redman, Washington
206 888-3730
It was designed by Drew H. and was REV 1.4.
My uncle has written to the above address, and called the phone number.
I also called information in Redman to try and find another phone
number. We have not been able to contact this company.
Does anyone know how to contact this company? Does anyone have a copy
of the program they would be willing to sell? Does anyone know if this
program has been set up to run on an IBM compatible?
Any help you can give us would be appreciated.
Thanks
Frank Hamlin
frankh@sr.hp.com
707 539-4991 (H)
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 12:45:07 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!ox.com!math.fu-
berlin.de!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu (Claus
Brod)
Subject: Multitasking for ST (to sell)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
carter@engr.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter) writes:
>GEM isn't even a viable App platform environment anymore, for christ sakes,
>come to your senses and yell for a real operating system like UNIX and
>MOTIF/X Windows.
>GEM is a DOG with RABIES that should have been SHOT a long TIME AGO.
Oh yeah. That's why Apple junked their MacOS four years ago and went
into Unix V.4. (Correct me if I'm wrong 8-) Wasn't this pure fun for
all those application programmers? Didn't they make a fortune out of
upgrade fees? Oh, those good old times...
What's so wrong about GEM, Greg? Tell us in detail.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 02:05:11 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.w
isc.edu!doug.cae.wisc.edu!carter@arizona.edu (Gregory Carter)
Subject: PageStream VS Calmus
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Calamus?
PageStream?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.
Your joking right?
--Greg
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 9 JUL 91 15:34 N
From: "OUT, OUT - YOU'LL NOT FEEL THE FALL-O..."
<OLIVOTTO%ITNVAX.CINECA.IT@ICINECA.CINECA.IT>
Subject: Please...
To: INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am bored of all this. I am a peaceful man, and I feel I love the
world. But I - and many other people - do not want to know wheteher our ST's
are better than AMIGAs. We simply do NOT care about it. We are happy with what
we have and we claim our ***right*** to read our Atari Digest without being
forced to drink all that AMIGA-ST war stuff.
I am seriously thinking about signing off, because I cannot take any-
more. NONE can take anymore. In other words, we've got enough.
Are you happy with your ST. OK.
Are you happy with your AMIGA? OK.
By the way, I'm mailing from a VAX 6320 of which I am sysadm - and
please THINK before you speak (...received?...).
So, before I get very angry, let's stop and speak about something
worth.
By the way, if we are not able to do so - why complaining about REAL
wars... do we all like them?
Marco Olivotto
olivotto@itincisca.bitnet
olivotto@itnvax.cineca.it
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 02:40:32 GMT
From: esseye!jdbbs!wybbs!therip!FredMail@uunet.uu.net (Rod Fulk)
Subject: Portfolio in Terminator 2?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Did you see the O in the Portfolio name?
Kinda neat...
* Origin: The R.I.P. (616)235-2313 [HST] (1:228/24)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 91 23:45:14 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!ersys!ggranger@arizona.edu
(Greg Granger)
Subject: Quick ST v. 3 - When?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
glennd@athena.arc.nasa.gov (Glenn Deardorff - GDP) writes:
> Does anyone know if (or when) Quick ST v.3 is supposed to be out? I
> thought it was supposed to be in June or July. I sent in my $15 upgrade
> fee, but haven't heard anything from them.
>
> Thanks. - Glenn
Myself and a few others on the network are still beta-testing Quick ST
3.0 for Darek. No promises are being made here, but it may be ready by
the end of the month (at least BRA Soft isn't another "InterSect
Software" for supposedly bringing out updates).
Greg Granger
< InterNet: ggranger@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca > "Gimme the strongest
< FoReMNet: Greg Granger @ 532 or Dark Knight @ 595 > thing you've got."
< Mail Adr: 5906-188 St. Edmonton, AB Canada T6M-2A9 >
< Phone : +1 403 481-0803 or +1 403 481-5110 > - Lt. Frank Drebin
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 15:35:01 GMT
From: netnews.upenn.edu!msuinfo!sierra.egr.msu.edu!schultzd@rutgers.rutgers.edu
(Count Zero Interrupt)
Subject: Really dumb question about the 68000
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The TOS used in machines other than the STEs and TTs is chip specific.
That is, it will not work on anything other than a 68000.
--
||| David W. Schultz |||
||| uunet[!rutgers!mailrus]!frith!schultzd |||
/ | \ Work Phone: (517)-353-8891 / | \
/ | \ "All I see Pornographitti, All I hear Pornographitti..." / | \
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 15:05:51 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!newcastle.ac.uk!turing!q1ygq@uunet.uu.net (Jonathan Spencer)
Subject: software QDOS emulators on the ST?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm thinking of upgrading to one of the Atari machines, probably one of
the ST's. Does anyone know if there are any *software* QDOS emulators
available at a sensible price? I've got a lot of stuff stored away in
Archive DB files and would rather not lose it nor have to re-enter it.
email would be best.
===========================================================================
From : Jonathan M Spencer
Mail : Computing Lab., University of Newcastle-upon-Tyne, NE1 7RU, England
Phone : +91 222 8229
ARPA : J.M.Spencer%newcastle.ac.uk@cs.ucl.ac.uk
JANET : J.M.Spencer@uk.ac.newcastle
UUCP : !ukc!newcastle.ac.uk!J.M.Spencer
===========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 23:09:00 GMT
From:
mcsun!unido!ira.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!k2.maus.de!Christoph_Br
egulla@uunet.uu.net (Christoph Bregulla)
Subject: Sybex STe/TT systems book
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
O>The price will be DM 89.- oder 99.-. And yes, we (the authors) and Sybex
~~~~
:-)))
Ciao
Christoph
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 91 13:19:38 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!yorkohm!minster!martin@uunet.uu.net
Subject: TT memory allocation
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The Atari TT has two kinds of main memory, ST compatible ``ST RAM'', and
faster, but incompatible ``TT RAM''. The developers' notes describe a new
flag to an extended system malloc function to say which kind of memory
should be used, and also says that there are two bits in the program
header which say which sort of RAM the program should be loaded into,
and which sort of memory should be returned by default, by the system
malloc functions.
OK so far. My problem is that I can't find anywhere a description of
*which bits* in the program header contain this information! If anyone
could tell me which bits I should invert to get a program to load,
and execute in TT RAM I would be very grateful.
Please mail any answers to me, and I will summarize to the net any
solutions.
Many thanks,
Martin
usenet: ...!mcsun!ukc!minster!martin
JANET: martin@uk.ac.york.minster
INTERNET: martin%minster.york.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk
surface:
Dr. Martin C. Atkins
Dept. of Computer Science
University of York
Heslington
York YO1 5DD
ENGLAND
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 15:49:45 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: Two Questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9107081656.AA08301@cwns6.INS.CWRU.Edu> ab016@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
writes:
>
>
> 1. Could someone send me the MidiMaze II doc in english?
>
> 2. Will a MegaFile 30 run on a first production run STe?
> ( The One With The DMA Problems. )
>
> Thanks!
You can't guarantee any Hard Drives with the DMA bug, get the DMA IC
replaced.
In this country we have a sales of goods act, this meens that the product
must not be faulty for its nominal fault free life, if it is, they must
fix it free of charge.
Note, this is a manufactures fault and sould be replaced at no charge
to you, its Ataries fault not yours.
--
*** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz ***
*** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not ***
*** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! ***
------------------------------
Date: 9 Jul 91 17:17:19 GMT
From: rit!cci632!th@cs.rochester.edu (Tim Hinton)
Subject: Wanted: Atari 1040ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
==============================================================
Hardware:
Atari 1040ST Computer (Midi Port)
Atari 1224 Color Monitor
Haba 1200 Baud Modem
Software:
Timeworks; Desktop Publisher & Word Writer, GridIron Football, Make-It-Move
Animation, Flash Telecommunications software, plus public domain software
Includes cables, manuals, and books............$450.00
Tim Hinton...(716)654-6894....Rochester, NY....
==============================================================
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
