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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 298
Today's Topics:
Atari 540ST Questions (2 msgs)
Atari TT (4 msgs)
COBOL on Atari STe
German PCB-CADs
LASER PRINTERS AND THE ST
Legal action against STrabble game. (2 msgs)
Mega STe Question (or Problems) (4 msgs)
MPE2+ or Platon
My stupidity (2 msgs)
Rainbow TOS Bombs again
ST User Virus!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 10:25:51 GMT
From: mcsun!inesc!unl!unl!spa@uunet.uu.net (Salvador Pinto Abreu)
Subject: Atari 540ST Questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
on 28 May 91 05:43:31 GMT,
mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) said:
[stuff deleted]
>> 3) How good is the mouse system on the unit?
> The mouse isn't bad at all. It has two buttons, and looks fairly good.
> It is a nice mouse, but there are third party mice available if you don't
> like it. The Atari mouse is FAR BETTER than the Mac mouse, which I have
> to use at school. It has a better response and moves faster.
I wonder which Atari mouse you're talking about. All Atari mice I've
used are the most dreadful rodents I've ever come across, second to
none, not even the "original" VAXstation-100 mouse (ever seen one of
these?) feels as bad.
Finding a replacement mouse seems to me one of the first priorities of
an Atari owner. I recently ordered a Naksha mouse, and await it
eagerly.
I'm saying this based on the general slowness of the mouse (a mouse
accelerator is a possible way around this particular problem), the
unbelievable way it resists being effectively cleaned (the metal
rollers inside seem to get corroded or something, and will tend to
stick, for instance my mouse has this tendency to not go left), and
the number of times you have to press the buttons (and the strength
you have to apply too) before it considers your gesture as a click.
[stuff deleted]
> << ---------------------------------- >>
> << ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >>
> << mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >>
> << Michel Forget >>
> << ---------------------------------- >>
--
-- Salvador Pinto Abreu spa@fct.unl.pt
Universidade Nova de Lisboa, PORTUGAL
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 14:31:01 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui
43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu (Claus Brod)
Subject: Atari 540ST Questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca (Michel Forget) writes:
>Yes, there is a 720K floppy drive built in. The older systems had 360K
>floppies, but the newer ones don't. It is fairly fast, but don't expect
>miracles. It seems faster than the IBM counterparts, though. There are
>also the usual assortment of Hard Drives available. I haven't seen any
>CD-Roms yet or Optical Drives yet, though. There are removable Hard
>Drive cartridge systems and 10 MEG floppies, though.
Atari sells two kind of CD-ROMs. The CDAR504 has a ACSI port, the CDAR505
is a SCSI device. There is also a MOD from Sony.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 26 May 91 15:19:57 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!agate!linus!philabs!crpmks
!wizkid!admiral!slammy@arizona.edu (Dave Litchman)
Subject: Atari TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Ok, I'm sure we've all SEEN the TT, at shows and such, but does anyone
HAVE one yet?
//
slammy@admiral.UUCP (Dave Litchman)
The Grid/Magpie and /Waffle BBS
(HST/V32) 203-661-1279 (PEP/V32) -2873 (V32) -0450 (V29/MNP6) -2967
Multiplayer Games, Multicolor Chat, Multibbses, Multifun!
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 12:15:45 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!psuv
m!dbngmd13!dmswwu1c!onm07@arizona.edu (Julian F. Reschke)
Subject: Atari TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <yF9J32w164w@admiral.UUCP>, slammy@admiral.UUCP (Dave Litchman) says:
>
>Ok, I'm sure we've all SEEN the TT, at shows and such, but does anyone
>HAVE one yet?
>
Yes. Since September 1990. Most professional developers in Germany have one.
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 17:10:52 GMT
From: ogicse!milton!alexd@uunet.uu.net (Alex Danilchik)
Subject: Atari TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
For years I have been waiting for a TT.. but when I finally
saw one at my local dealer's, I wasn't impressed enough to
plop down the cash for a TT/8... since the TT/2 is almost
worthless.
My dealer has had TT's for months and hasn't sold a single one
yet... though he tells me IB computers has been selling them mail
order. BTW: my dealer price on the TT/2 sans monitor is $2,100.
Could this be the problem? Seem like a reasonable price. But..
to get into 8 megs at an additional $800 or so... i wonder...
Are dealers selling these things?
cheers!
gunnar
alexd@milton.u.washington.edu
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 14:27:49 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui
43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu (Claus Brod)
Subject: Atari TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
slammy@admiral.UUCP (Dave Litchman) writes:
>Ok, I'm sure we've all SEEN the TT, at shows and such, but does anyone
>HAVE one yet?
Yep. Since October 1990.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 09:55:14 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!hsdndev!wuarchive!psuvax1!psuvm!dbngmd13!dmswwu1c!zv0009@arizona.edu
Subject: COBOL on Atari STe
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I need a COBOL - System for the Atari STe .
Who can tell me, where to get one?
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 15:04:43 GMT
From: bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!fuug!news.funet.fi!news@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
(Antila Marko)
Subject: German PCB-CADs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello there all PCB-designers!
Here is short review of some German PCB-cad packages for Atari ST.
I evaluated the demo versions the authors of those programs sent me.
The biggest drawback (or advantage to some of you:=) is that all these
programs are in German and the documents are also in German.
---
program: Layout 1.3 PD
author : Uwe Klatt
price : PD
This is a working public domain PCB-cad package . There
is output support only for 9-pin printer and it's limited to 2-sided
boards. But it's very good starting point. It is somewhat slow but it
has adequate zooming and object handling functions. I liked this one
(especially the price range is OK :=).
You can't really use accessories with this program (it tends to crash
then).
---
program : Connecti_CAD
author : Uwe Klatt
price : about DM 50,-
Connecti_CAD is basically expanded version of Layout 1.3. It is
faster, can output to 24-pin printer (+ other formats) and it has more
line widths and sizes of soldering dots. Nice "Mac-type" fonts.
---
program: PCB-Edit
author : Rosin Software
price : about DM 200,-
This program is different from all the other programs in the way it
handles graphic objects. It's not vector oriented (when scaling is
relatively easy) but raster (or pixel) oriented so it "draws" the whole
layout to the memory and outputs to screen the visible portion of
that layout. Because of this concept it is very fast but all the
zooming function etc are seriously limited.
You can edit objects pixel by pixel and thus generate some weird
pad-forms and lines. To a certain degree it's only general drawing
program but this means that you can also draw schematics with this
package.
---
program: PCB-Layout
author : Thomas Praefcke
price : about DM 200,-
This is very similar to Connecti-CAD but the routing options are
better (program does intelligent routing).
Doesn't support 9-pin printer (but supports 24-pin printer).
Accessories work well with this program.
---
program : Platon 1.4
author : VHF-Computer
price : about DM 300,-
This is the most comprehensive PCB-CAD package of all these reviewed.
Almost all of its parameters are user-configurable (line widths,
pad sizes etc). There are plenty of output formats, dot-matrix
printers, laserprinters and possibly gerber (that may cost extra).
You can also build a component libraries and extract the
bill-of-materials.
The user interface is somewhat confusing (drop-down + hierachical
pop-up menus + icons) but there really are plenty of options.
There is also version 2.0 available (it costs about DM 500,-) and
its evidently enchanced version of the v1.4 :=).
---
I could send demos of these programs to atari.arch or some
similar place provided that
a) they aren't there already
b) there is enough general interest to the demos
c) it is totally legal (maybe have to check from the authors)
I haven't used these programs for real designing, just gone through
the menus & options and checked what's available so if there are real
users of these programs around they may have different opinions and
views of many things.
Comments & corrections are welcome.
Obligatory disclaimer:
I'm not connected with any of the previously mentioned PCB-CAD:s :=)
* Marko Antila (ma62141@tut.fi) ! PhoHome +358-31-183539 *
* Tampere University of Technology ! PhoWork +358-31-161900 *
* Signal Processing Lab, P.O.Box 527 ! ====================== *
* SF-33101 Tampere, Finland ! Vacuum tube rules OK *
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 May 91 09:13:14 ADT
From: Alyre CHIASSON <CHIASSA%UDEM@UNBMVS1.csd.unb.ca>
Subject: LASER PRINTERS AND THE ST
To: N <info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
I wish to purchase a printer that will give better copy than
my star NX-2400 when used in combination with CALAMUS. I am
a bit confused about the speed of printing using laser
printers other than ATARI'S and the amount of printer memory
needed. If I was to purchase a HP Laserjet or compatible
printer how much printer memory would I need to print at
360 dpi? I have 4 MEGs of computer memory. How fast would the
printing be, long waits will really affect my productivity. I
could just purchase the ATARI'S laser print but it would
leave will little funding left for the remainder of my project,
so I am looking for the best printing speed and quality for
the money. I not too sure about the price for the new Atari
Laser printer but was told it was around $1,550.00 Canadian.
I would appreciate any recommendations on this purchase.
Thanks
CHIASSAL@udem.bitnet
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 14:06:45 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu
!utgpu!cunews!bnrgate!bigsur!bcars241!brad@arizona.edu (Brad Shapcott)
Subject: Legal action against STrabble game.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991May27.210009.16927@lsuc.on.ca> jimomura@lsuc.on.ca (Jim Omura)
writes:
>In article <4cVH31w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca> mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca
(Michel Forget) writes:
>>As a side note, it has happened in the past that an author will take a
>>story, change a few superficial details, and then re-release it. On the
>
> A nice general statement without specific facts to back it
>up.
Actually I was just reading a collection of essays by Isaac Asimov in which he
refers to an incident in which a plagairized story was published in his maga-
zine (or at least the one that bears his name) without the editor's knowledge.
This sort of thing does happen quite often (well, compared to the frequency
with which I would suspect that people would be stupid enough to think they can
get away with it).
>Look, take this discussion to 'net.legal' or whatever it's
>called. You're not saying anything that's "special" to the Atari
>community, so you may as well talk to people who are more likely
>to be interested in the discussion than those in this group.
I think the legal issues related to software have always been of particular
interest to the Atari community, from piracy to copyright and so on. Because
the Atari market is so heavily dependant on shareware, legal decisions regard-
ing copyright status and licensing do have a special interest for us.
For instance if a licence is held by a large software corporation for a part-
icular application which has done quite well on other computers, yet the
corporation has no intention of developing it on the Atari, to what extent
would a piece of shareware which closely approximates that application be a
copyright violation? And how close do you have to come before you are
infringing on a copyright? Reverse engineered? File compatibility? Look-
and-feel (see Unix Review, Vol. 8, No. 12 on that one)?
I mean if it is obvious to the court that Scrabble is just a variant on
crosswords, and while entitled to its particular format and graphics the
company owning this game cannot extend its copyright to EVERY crossword variant
(regardless of medium), then close duplicates would have legal grounds to
refute the owning company's claims.
So this particular issue does have a lot of relevance to Atarians, since it is
a piece of software for their machine being jeopardized, and because these
alternate distribution systems (shareware, etc) are so important to the Atari
community. While I haven't generally been interested in playing computer games
since high school, and so have never even seen STrabble, I AM interested in
the legal results in this case.
>Jim Omura
brad
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 07:57:49 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Legal action against STrabble game.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1624@uqcspe.cs.uq.oz.au> warwick@cs.uq.oz.au writes:
>Even if the Laws are wrong, or the library's actions are legal, they may not
>receive justice, simply because of a lack of funds.
True. In this case however Spears were justified, although a little heavy
handed.
>>I'm surprised Dave gets off with Hacman 2.
>
>I'm GLAD.
Me too.
>> ... if PD stuff competed really
>>strongly with commercial products then companies would go out of business.
>
>So what? I think if someone is willing to give you something BETTER for
>FREE, then they shouldn't be punished. The problem is too many people like
>that poster have the attitude "It would be nice, but the Law doesn't allow
>it".
It could hurt some companies every bit as much as piracy, which is the illegal
version of free software. Say a company comes out with a new and very
innovative game for the ST in the UK. Some other group produce a clone,
a BETTER clone and start distributing it via the net. Soon the world will have
the PD version before some have even heard of the commercial one. When the
commercial version turns up reviewers would be saying "Not as good as the PD
version" and so no sale. Does that sound extreme? Maybe, but that is what
worries companies and that is what they are trying to prevent.
If a company lets things slip by then things can get out of hand. Look at
NEOchrome from Atari. Lots of people got version 0.5 free with their ST way
back. Despite the documentation clearly stating that it was a preview version
and the fact that later versions were on sale, PD libraries see it as free.
I have a letter from Atari saying that it is not.
>Laws can be wrong.
Ain't that the truth! Nuff said.
>Warwick.
>--
> _-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au
> / * <-- Computer Science Department,
> \_.-._/ University of Queensland,
> v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA.
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 11:37:35 GMT
From:
math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzrz!opal!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod
@uunet.uu.net (Claus Brod)
Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
johnj@knor.prl.philips.nl (John Janssen) writes:
>Is the following normal?
>1. When I switch on the computer, it takes very long (>30s)
> until it boots from hard disk.
Wait ca. 5s after coldboot, then press a key. The Mega will then
boot immediately.
>2. When there is no floppy disk in the floppy drive
> the light of that drive stays on forever (after booting).
This is perfectly normal for any ST.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 11:40:07 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia
.edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@arizona.edu
(Claus Brod)
Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu (Ed Krimen) writes:
>Jerry Pournelle in his 'review' in Byte also commented on this delay. He
>made it seem like his TT waited for several minutes however.
Which sheds some light on the way he likes to test gadgets. He would only
have to press any key...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 10:43:15 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!phigate!prle!prles2!knor!johnj@uunet.uu.net (John Janssen)
Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
My question about the boot sequence of the Mega STe
seems to be not totally clear. So I try to add the
correct information here and come straight to the point:
1. My Mega STe waits 30 seconds before it boots from hard disk,
although I do have an empty (formatted) floppy disk in the
floppy drive.
2. The special point of my start-sequence was, that I could
only decrease the idle time (in front of the booting process)
by pressing the 'return' key on the correct moment.
This correct moment is immediately after the 3rd switch-on of
the FD-light after switching on the computer, or immediately
after the 2nd switch-on of the FD-light incase of a reboot
by means of the Ctrl-Alt-RightShift-Del key press.
Note that the first flash of the three flashes mentioned above
is very short, and not noticable if you do not pay attention,
while the other two flashes (in both re-boot situations)
are very obvious as they last for a second or so.
So please let me know if these two procedures are correct.
As I stated before, I will be off the net for a few(?) days
from Friday May 31th onwards, so I probably won't be able
to read replies on the net, as they sometimes take a few days...
and my money back guarantee expires in a few days!
So please REPLY BY EMAIL .
I will summarise
when I'm back on the net.
--
John Janssen Check the email address in the header, as this
J.v.Deventerstr.1 may have been filled in wrong by the system.
Venlo Holland
+31 77 513177 Reply to: johnj@idms.prl.philips.nl
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 14:10:43 GMT
From: mcsun!corton!laas!ralph@uunet.uu.net (Ralph P. Sobek)
Subject: Mega STe Question (or Problems)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991May28.113735.22168@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes:
| >2. When there is no floppy disk in the floppy drive
| > the light of that drive stays on forever (after booting).
|
| This is perfectly normal for any ST.
As just a reminder, there exists KILLDRV which turns off that darn
floppy disk light. It was either posted to USENET or is available
from atari.archive. Both source and binaries should be available:
-rw-r--r-- 1 ralph 3188 Jan 2 11:22 lzh/killdrvb.lzh
-rw-r--r-- 1 ralph 1618 Jan 2 11:24 lzh/killdrvs.lzh
Cheers,
--
Ralph P. Sobek Disclaimer: The above ruminations are my own.
ralph@laas.fr Addresses are ordered by importance.
ralph@laas.uucp, or ...!uunet!laas!ralph
If all else fails, try: sobek@eclair.Berkeley.EDU
===============================================================================
Proud owner of a Mega 4 ST. Wishing it was a Mega STe! :-|
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 10:47:41 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!ooc.uva.nl!nils@uunet.uu.net (Nils Arbeitstein)
Subject: MPE2+ or Platon
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
does any of you know, and or have worked with either one of
these programs, cause i'm now making my pcb's on a pc, but it's kind
of a bother to drive all the way down to my friends, to make a pcb on his
computer.
nils.
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 08:22:41 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!laura!tommy!klute@uunet.uu.net (Rainer Klute)
Subject: My stupidity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <16582@helios.TAMU.EDU>, n160ao@tamuts.tamu.edu (Mark Lehmann)
writes:
|> I looked at the man pages and
|> tried the followin command:
|>
|> zoo {x}[//] d:\term\download\sozobon1.zoo
|>
|> But zoo doesn't understand and just give me the usage line.
Hmm, well, you should not actually type the braces and brackets. They are
metasymbols meaning you *must* type one of the characters in the braces and
you *may* take one (or more) from those in brackets. You should try the
command:
zoo x// d:\term\download\sozobon1.zoo
--
Dipl.-Inform. Rainer Klute klute@irb.informatik.uni-dortmund.de
Univ. Dortmund, IRB klute@unido.uucp, klute@unido.bitnet
Postfach 500500 |)|/ Tel.: +49 231 755-4663
D-4600 Dortmund 50 |\|\ Fax : +49 231 755-2386
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 14:19:55 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!bu.edu!m2c!jjmhome!hunt@arizona.edu
(Tad J. Hunt)
Subject: My stupidity
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Yes!! Please post the info about the modem control lines!
Thanks!
Tad
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 15:15:16 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!crdgw1!gecrdvm1!syspmzt@arizona.edu
Subject: Rainbow TOS Bombs again
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <12020002@hpspdra.spd.HP.COM>, freds@hpspdra.spd.HP.COM (Fred
Saavedra) says:
>
>I have recently installed the new? rainbow TOS in my mega2.
>
>*flameon*
>It seems to run less software than the old version, which
>is depressing since the my older 1040 which I sold for the Mega
>ran the largest set of software.
>
>Well is it my imagination???
>
>Is there a solution to all this bombing?
>*flame off*
>
I just bought a 1040 STe and upgraded the memory to 4 meg. I've noticed that
a lot of pd software others have suggested as great programs do not run or
bomb my system. Examples so far are CAL 5.0, which will not run, and MELT,
which melts the screen then bombs the system. Some of the software that I
wrote with Personal Pascal long ago (I gave up writing for the machine about
3 years ago) has some odd reactions on the STe that my old 1040 did not.
I'm also interested in what the architectural differences are between an ST and
an STe.
Phil Z
------------------------------
Date: 28 May 91 15:16:28 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!stl!crosfield!imt@uunet.uu.net (ian taylor)
Subject: ST User Virus!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
(This is probably only of interest to UK netters, although I believe ST User
magazine is available internationally by mail order)
Has anyone had problems with this months (June) ST User cover disk?
I think that there is a free virus included on the coverdisk, which mangled
the directory of two of my disks before I eradicated it. This is the second
time that ST User has done this, and frankly I am bloody unimpressed. Anyone
who's got this disk, beware.
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
