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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 378
Info-Atari16 Digest Sun, 7 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 378
Today's Topics:
1.44M formatting..
Alchimie Jr users out there?
Amiga/Atari
Amiga is better then [sic] what???
Amiga is better then what???
ATARI.ENG
Atari Developer support disconnected?
Atari vs Amiga
GCC 1.39 -g Problems
GNU emacs, can't get it to work... Anyone know how?
losing atari binaries
More on what Atari does have (MIDI) (2 msgs)
Need hertz switcher..
Portfolio in Terminator 2? (2 msgs)
ProCopy Atari ST Version 1.8
what Atari DOES have
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 5 Jul 91 22:23:36 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!umich!ox.com!math.fu-berlin.de!mailgzr
z!opal!unido!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu
(Lars Michael)
Subject: 1.44M formatting..
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
yonder@netcom.COM (Christopher Russell) writes:
>I was thinking about trying to hookup this 1.44M drive that I have
>here. I have a few files that explain how it is done (basically
>get 16Mhz to the WD1772). Anyways, I was going to try it out, but
>I don't have a 1.44M formatting program. Is one available at
>atari.archive, or could somebody mail me one? Thanks...
>--
>Christopher L. Russell (yonderboy) Phone: (408)378-9078 Campbell,CA
>yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com or chrisr@leland.stanford.edu
Hi Chris,
Yeah, you're right. Just look at a.a for CLI10U.LZH, the powerful
command line interpreter of Oliver Scholz. There you have an build-
in format command with HD option. This is not the only reason why
you should have it. Just look into the (german, sorry 8-( ) docs
for detail.
BTW: english docs will be avaiable soon 8-)
Have fun,
---
Lars
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | | | | |
| Lars Michael | | | | "Down with ATARI, |
| Graduate Student of Computer Science | / | \ Long live the ST !" |
| at University of Erlangen/Germany | / | \ |
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| Bones: "Damn it, Kirk, I'm a doctor, not a very good actor." |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 00:03:58 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!psuvax1!
psuvm!jjl101@arizona.edu (J.J. Lehett)
Subject: Alchimie Jr users out there?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well, I have just begun to look into this sequencer and would like to
get in touch with anyone else who uses this sequencer. If so, drop me a line!
*************************************************************************
* J.J. * Internet: JJL101@PSUVM.PSU.EDU * Penn State *
* * * Center for *
* John Lehett * Bitnet: JJL101@PSUVM * Academic Computing *
*************************************************************************
* Atari ST's!, Puzzles, Cryptos, Games, Diplomacy, Synths + Midi *
*************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 05:27:21 GMT
From: ads.com!pdel@ames.arpa (Peter Delevoryas)
Subject: Amiga/Atari
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>From: ykidron@isis.cs.du.edu (Yaron kidron)
>Subject: Amiga/Atari
>Message-ID: <1991Jul5.203125.3818@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu>
>Sender: usenet@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu (netnews admin account)
>Reply-To: ykidron@isis.cs.du.edu (Yaron kidron)
>Peter, it seems that you have to learn a lot too.
Just want to let people know that I'm not the Peter referred to here.
Let me earn my own flames, thanks.
Peter D.
--
login name: L1-A
In real life: Peter Delevoryas
In any other life: a cheap imitation
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 23:38:03 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!bacchus!mwm@decwrl.dec.com (Mike (My Watch Has Windows) Meyer)
Subject: Amiga is better then [sic] what???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <678509203.0@therip.FidoNet> Rod.Fulk@f24.n228.z1.FidoNet.Org (Rod
Fulk) writes:
B> That's what many people say, until they try Amiga multitasking.
I have seen people use the multi tasking.. The main reason for multitasking
is that on the amiga many programs just have general functions due to the
fact that many other programs can do these functions well. On the ST MOST of
the programs that are out now [...]
Anyhow, MOST of the ST programs out now have many ways of getting some of
the important features done in a "multi tasking" environment.
In other words, the authors of utility programs in a monotasking
environment must go out of their way to provide functions that the
system (or other utilities) provides in a multitasking environment,
just because you can't access the external functions without exiting
the current task.
This is a lose for two reasons. First, you've got all those utility
writers re-inventing wheels. This is largely wasted time; they should
be making their utilities better instead. Second, chances are pretty
good that all those re-invented wheels won't look the same, so the
users of those utilities will have to learn multiple different ways of
acheiving the same task. This is a waste of the users time; they
should be putting their computers to work, not learning N different
ways to format a disk (or whatever).
On the amiga multitasking is very useful for the current software do to
generalizatins..
You're missing the forest because of the trees. _Any_ software
designed for _any_ multitasking system will be "generalized" in this
way. They always have. After all, if the user can
suspend/detach/iconify/shelloutof your program and do X no matter what
X is, you don't need to worry about doing anything but what your
program does.
(Games don't count since most dont multi task even on the amiga.. I am
talking games like falcon etc.. Some you CAN multi task but you really
do not wanna do so unless your running a fast machine)
Well, most of the games I can buy multitask - partly because I tend
not to buy games if they don't. Of course, I also find arcade games
boring, and stick to strategy games. There, the multitasking is a
great help - I can take notes in the editor, grab a calculator to
crunch on some probabilities, etc.
But why? It already can do all I need for it
That's the bottom line on buying a computer. If that's true, you
bought a right computer for you, whether it's a 4MHz z80 running CP/M,
or a NeXT box...
<mike
--
It's been a hard day's night, Mike Meyer
And I been working like a dog. mwm@pa.dec.com
It's been a hard day's night, decwrl!mwm
I should be sleeping like a log.
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 05:21:30 GMT
From: ads.com!pdel@decwrl.dec.com (Peter Delevoryas)
Subject: Amiga is better then what???
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
just couldn't help it. I'm sorry, but I am just cracking up watching
this thread. It is absolutely hilarious (from an outsider's view) watching
it develop.
I wish I could program, because I would use the subject matter to
write a 'demo' or a 'game'.
Okay, sorry to interject. Back to you guys.
--
login name: L1-A
In real life: Peter Delevoryas
In any other life: a cheap imitation
------------------------------
Date: 5 Jul 91 09:21:00 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ira.uka
.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!b.maus.de!Karsten_Isakovic@arizona.edu
(Karsten Isakovic)
Subject: ATARI.ENG
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Sooo doll ist die Gruppe auch nicht ;-(
1. Sind die Messages mindestens eine Woche alt
2. Nicht volltaendig (In den Tagen kamen garantiert mehr Anfragen)
3. Warscheinlich nur in einer Richtung vernetzt.
Ich warte mal noch 2-3 Tage ab, wenn sich dann nichts tut, entferne ich die
ATARI.ENG (comp.sy.atari.st) wieder.
Gruss, Karsten
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 22:34:05 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!noose.ecn.purdue.edu!vivaldi.ecn.purdu
e.edu!yegerleh@arizona.edu (James D Yegerlehner)
Subject: Atari Developer support disconnected?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello everyone,
Do any of you guys know why Gail Johnson's (Atari developer support)
phone was disconnected? Is this bad news, or is this connected with
the rumor that some Atari offices are being moved to the east coast?
Jim
--
__ __ | |
\ / __ __ __ __ | __ |__ __ __ __ Jim Yegerlehner
\/ |--'| ||--'| ||--'| || ||--'| 1132 Hawkins Graduate House
| `-- `--|`-- | |`-- | || |`-- | W. Lafayette IN 47906
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 22:45:01 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!quest!orbit!pne
t51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch)
Subject: Atari vs Amiga
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu (Robert J Anisko) writes:
>
> Hmm, seems as IBM and Apple are joining forces in future technology
>(according to the paper). So while we're bickering between Atari and
>COmmodore, it's two biggest threats are going to combine forces - ought
>to be REAL interesting to see what the future holds in store for BOTH
>the ST and Amiga...
>
> Robert Anisko
> rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
Hardly, they are not "combining forces" they are merely exchanging technology.
and that still has 6 months till the contracts are signed. i think you'll
see things change if/when the contracts are signed, Ego's are big at both IBM
and Apple.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 04:32:47 GMT
From: cadence!cadence.com!bammi@uunet.uu.net (Jwahar R. Bammi)
Subject: GCC 1.39 -g Problems
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
--
bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi
domain: bammi@cadence.com
GEnie: J.Bammi
CIS: 71515,155
In article <21313@k2.maus.de> Frank_Celler@k2.maus.de (Frank Celler) writes:
>
> When trying to compile a file with the "-gg" option, the assembler
> reports an unkown option "G" and starts reading the (compiler) symbolfile
> as input file. When trying to compile with "-g", I get a bogon-alert
please get newer versions of utilities (especially gcc-ld.ttp and
sym-ld.ttp) from atari.archive (Patchlevel 17 or better, the current
Patchlevel is 21). these versions should never ever give you the
dreaded "bogon alert" message. while you are there also pick up a new
version of gdb (gdb v2.6 Patchlevel 12). "gcc -g" (note NOT -gg) works
just fine now. also, this version of gdb is very usable on the atari
now.
if you ever get "illegal character" errors from gas (v1.38) when
compiling with `-g', then you need a newer version of gcc. I had
posted the required Patch for gcc-1.39. gcc-1.40 has these fixes
already incorporated, so if you see the error from gas, please grab
the new gcc v1.40 fom A.A.
cheers,
--
--
bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi
domain: bammi@cadence.com
GEnie: J.Bammi
CIS: 71515,155
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 02:57:00 GMT
From:
deccrl!news.crl.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!aidev.enet.dec.com!m
iskinis@decwrl.dec.com (John Miskinis)
Subject: GNU emacs, can't get it to work... Anyone know how?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I grabbed all 29 parts of the GNU emacs archive. I can't get it to work.
It says in the "read_me" file that the termcap library is used, and that a
sample file is included. I didn't see one!
I logged onto Genie, pulled the TERMCAP archive, and it has a TERMCAP
file in it. It seems to define "st52" and "st52l" (50 lines). I
tried setting the TERM environmental to st52, but it still complains
that st52 is not powerful enough to run emacs, and it lacks the ability
to move the cursor.
It hasn't been a fun Saturday! If anyone knows how to get this working
I'd love some help!
Thanks!
_John_
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 21:53:55 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@a
rizona.edu
Subject: losing atari binaries
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Jim Omura writes:
...
> Anyway, thank you all for losing the 'binaries' groups for
>us. I'm sure the local Amiga and Mac users are also thrilled.
Umm... how is it that your administrator killed comp.binaries.st
because of heavy traffic in comp.sys.atari..?
Why not kill the one generating the traffic? I'm afraid I don't see
the connection...
Or did you mean he killed ALL .atari groups..?
BobR
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 00:33:12 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!world!a
zog@arizona.edu (azog-thoth)
Subject: More on what Atari does have (MIDI)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Ive posted before, on a comparision between VAX/VMS and the Atari and the
Amiga, and the fact is, its a religious issue, when it comes down to
stuff like, computers, editors, operating systems, etc. I still love
VMS, and also like Unix... however, I digress from my original intent.
The Atari has built-in MIDI ports. Big deal, you say? Not when ones
purpose of buying a computer is for MIDI recording. What are you gonna
buy, a machine that has the capibility built in, or one where you have
to buy another extrenal box? Regardless of preformance, etc, I would think
the hypothetical person in this case would buy the machine with the MIDI
built in... Some musicians are computer dunces, and dont want to futz
with any extra needed stuff...
I didnt originally buy my Atari ST for the MIDI, but that was one of the
reasons why. I knew eventually I would start doing MIDI stuff. Here is a
fair comparision that the average person would look at when buying a
computer. I am using used equipment as an example, and its just an
_example_!
Here is my setup:
Atari 520STfm computer, with colour SC1224 monitor, brought used for
$250.00. External SF314 3.5" DSDD drive, used, for $100. Now thats
a total of $350 for the base machine. Ive no RAM expansion or hard
drive (will get one eventually). Add a few dollars maybe for
MIDI cables (I got mine in the keyboard box when I bought it new)
Here is an example of an Amiga, used equipment These prices are
guesses, from what Ive seen in misc.forsale.computers, and local
ads.
Amiga 500 computer with 1084 monitor, $500. External floppy drive, $100.
MIDI interface, $100. The total is $700.
Whats wrong with this picture? I got built in MIDI for $350. The
Amiga would cost maybe $700. If you wanted MIDI, and didnt really
know about computers (face it, there isnt a lot of people who really
care about DMA channels, and the like. Of course, the more RAM, the
bigger the patch, whatever in memory. However the ST and the 500
both have 512k base...)
Its easier to add memory to a 500, I would imagine. And also, Atari
doesnt make the STfm anymore. The STe, yes? You could probab
get a 520STe for $500, easy. And the Mega 2 STe costs maybe $1000,
with more memory. And the Amiga 2000, you could get used for maybe
$8000, but you still need to add a MIDI interface...
Dont bother sending me mail saying that the Amiga is better at MIDI
than the Atari. Maybe it is, I dont know. All I know is that I got
everything I need in one package... (exepct for software, which cost
me about $100. A package called MIDISoft Studio, by Passport. There
are better ones, but require better machines, like a 1040 or above).
Just my humble opinion
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
| Billy D'Augustine | Close your eyes, what do you see? Dreams in |
| azog@world.std.com | rhyme with reality. - Fates Warning |
+---------------------------+-----------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 06:09:44 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!ringer!tgimon@arizona.edu (Thomas
Gimon)
Subject: More on what Atari does have (MIDI)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
A few facts:
1) The Amiga suffers from timing problems which keep it from being
considered for most professional MIDI work. This is due to the
Amiga having only one hardware timer. This timer can not be
reliably used by application software since the OS can reset or
adjust this timer **AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT WARNING**.
MIDI software for the Amiga has to rely on software timing; which
is not suitable for professional work.
2) The ST has 4 hardware timers. Two of them are permanently reserved
for OS use, one of them is reserved for OS use for RS-232 timing,
and one is free for use by application software. The timer which
is used for RS-232 timing may be used by application software needing
a second timer, provided that you wont be needing RS-232.
3) The ST is the only micro-computer which can perform bit accurate
SMPTE synchronization. This is because the ST can perform the
sync in hardware. SMPTE allows composers to synchronize their
work to video tape, film, or multi-track tape. The standard rates
are (in frames per second) 30, 29.97, 25 and 24. The best that
other micro-computers can do is 30 fps. This leads to the need for
time interpolation between the SMPTE frame rate and the music's
natural beat tempo. This can only be done using software to
perform the interpolation, which can be as bad as relying on a
software timer. Since the ST can sync to every bit in the SMPTE
code, it is synchronizing with the time code 2400 times every second.
The ST still has to do a hint of time interpolation, but the algorithm
needed is much simpler and much faster.
I once owned a Commodore 64; and I *knew* that when I upgraded, I was
going to get an Amiga. However, when I was commissioned to do my first
film score, I took a serious look at many different computer systems, and
how well they would serve at the hub of a home MIDI studio. The Amiga was,
of course, the first system I looked at; but I was dissapointed when I
found out that the hardware was inadequate, and the software for MIDI
was almost non-existant (pro-software). I eventually purchased an ST,
SMPTE-Track v3.0 sequencing software from Hybrid Arts, Inc. (I now use
v6.0), and I have *never* regreted my decision!
I have been using this setup for the last three years and don't feel
the least bit compelled to change to another system!
--Tom Gimon
INET: tgimon@ringer.cs.utsa.edu
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 02:01:40 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jones_Woodwo
rth@arizona.edu
Subject: Need hertz switcher..
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Could at least one person uuencode and send me a 50 hz program ?
I try to run the "acid2" demo on my Atari 1040STf but it gives me nine
bombs. I assume that I need to switch the monitor to 50hz.
If someone would fmail it to me I would be most cheerful. Seems Bart is
broken and I can't get it from there (Hi Weiner! I saw the mail.shucks)
Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 07:44:29 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!jarthur!jarthur.claremont.edu@arizona.edu
(Corey Liu)
Subject: Portfolio in Terminator 2?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Anybody out there see "Terminator 2: Judgement Day" yet? Awesome flick!
(IMHO) But that's not the point of my post.
Correct me if I am wrong, but was that an Atari Portfolio making a cameo
appearance in the film? Wow! An Atari machine in the likely summer movie
box-office blockbuster!
Did not look like Atari had a hand in the appearance though. I could not
find any listing in the credits and it seemed the filmakers tried to avoid
showing the product label (i.e. the Fuji).
Am I incorrect? Any info on this?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
"This must be the place I waited years to leave." - P.S.B.
Corey Liu (__) cliu@jarthur.claremont.edu
Harvey Mudd College |oo| cliu@jarthur.uucp
Claremont, CA \/--Moo! cliu@jarthur.bitnet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 12:53:36 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.w
isc.edu!pikes!mercury.cair.du.edu!mnemosyne.cs.du.edu!isis.cs.du.edu!jbunch@ari
zona.edu (John Bunch)
Subject: Portfolio in Terminator 2?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I saw credits for Atari Games, but not for Atari Computers... But it
sure did look an awful lot like a portfolio... Coolness...
John.
--
John B Bunch * I don't want the world, I just want your
771 Madison Ave Apt.2e. * half.... -TMG
Albany, NY 12208 *
jbunch@isis.cs.du.edu *
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 09:13:57 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!munnari.oz.au!goanna!minyo
s.xx.rmit.oz.au!t821431@arizona.edu (Richard Clarkson)
Subject: ProCopy Atari ST Version 1.8
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Is Procopy version 1.8 the latest version of ProCopy for the Atari-st?
Is the Address listed below correct and has anyone recently had an update
or confirmation of registration from them. (I have never heard anything
since April 1990 when i bought the software package?
Is this address correct?
ProCo Products
PO Box 665 Chepachet RI 02814
i
T el: (401) 568 8459
------------------------------
Date: 6 Jul 91 22:45:01 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!quest!orbit!pne
t51!chucks@arizona.edu (Erik Funkenbusch)
Subject: what Atari DOES have
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
lchd_ltd@uhura.cc.rochester.edu (----* Ho Ling Cherd *----) writes:
>In article <5314@orbit.cts.com> chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org (Erik Funkenbusch)
writes:
>>CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA writes:
>>>I have an ST and a TT. Both of these can use something the Mac, the PC and
>>>the Amiga cannot - the Atari SLM605 laser. For DTP, nothing can rival the
>>>speed of output and the number of applications that make use of that speed
>>>like Atari DTP packages.
>>
>>
>>huh? you've obviosly never used a Mac with a LaserWriter IIntx. those
>>puppies have an 030 in them. by the way, have you seen the LaserJet III's?
>>they have variable resolutions.
>>
>Howv much does a LaserWriter IIntx cost? What kind of technology had Steve
>Job chosen on his NeXT Laser printer?
The NeXT uses a 400 dpi SCSI laser printer i believe.
/s
--------------------------------------------------------------------------.
| UUCP: {amdahl!tcnet, crash}!orbit!pnet51!chucks | "I know he's come back |
| ARPA: crash!orbit!pnet51!chucks@nosc.mil | from the dead, but do |
| INET: chucks@pnet51.orb.mn.org | you really think he's |
|-------------------------------------------------| moved back in?" |
| Amiga programmer at large, employment options | Lou Diamond Philips in |
| welcome, inquire within. | "The First Power". |
`--------------------------------------------------------------------------'
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
