Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 386
Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 11 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 386
Today's Topics:
APPLE + IBM Agreement
ATARI.ENG
ATARI LASER PRINTER-WHAT PRINTER TO BUY
Atari ST system for sale
Final games clearance
Hard Disks and the STE
Info about PD ST Midi Sequencers and DX librarians ?
Lattice C
lynx games
mac rom/ mono multisync forsale
mac rom/multisync mono forsale
Mupfel w/Neodesk 3
NCS Demo
no subject (file transmission) (2 msgs)
Pagestream 2.01 Shipping!
PageStream VS Calmus
Racter: Is there a ST equivalent anywhere?
ST software for sale
Two Questions
Wanted/For Sale
Zoo 2.1 - first impressions
Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic
cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed
out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages
to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU.
Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to
Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list
instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored.
If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly
from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please
contact the redistributor, not us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10 Jul 91 19:23:08 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!uupsi!mpoint!ritz@arizona.edu (Chris
Mauritz)
Subject: APPLE + IBM Agreement
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul9.112242.31968@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu> shawl@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu
writes:
>Just to get some discussion going: What do you all think will be the
>effect on Atari of the recent agreement between Apple and IBM? It seems to me
>that it could be deadly.
Who knows? It might have a beneficial effect in that it might force Atari
to give up the ridiculous idea of making workstations and concentrate on
what it is good at, making games machines and little gadgets.
Cheers,
Chris
--
------------------------------------+---------------------------------------
Chris Mauritz |People are strange
ritz@msb.com |when you're a stranger.
Copyright (C) 1991 |The Doors-
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jul 91 12:38:00 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!ira
.uka.de!smurf.sub.org!artcom0!hb.maus.de!ms.maus.de!Patrick_Dubbrow@arizona.edu
(Patrick Dubbrow)
Subject: ATARI.ENG
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Karsten Isakovic @ B am Di, 09.07.91 10:04 in ATARI.ENG:
>Trotzdem waere die Gruppe 'comp.sys.atari.st.tech' wesentlich besser fuer eine
>Vernetzung geeignet.
[...als comp.sys.atari.st]
Das sehe ich genauso. Allerdings scheinen schon jetzt in Atari.Eng beide oben
genannten Gruppen zusammengefuehrt zu werden!
Gruss,
Patrick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 91 15:09:57 ADT
From: Alyre CHIASSON <CHIASSA%UDEM@UNBMVS1.csd.unb.ca>
Subject: ATARI LASER PRINTER-WHAT PRINTER TO BUY
To: N <info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
No one seemed to have any advice on the merits of buying
the new Atari Laser printer(605) versus and other brand
of laser printer or jet ink. Finally, I took at face value
a review of the HP500 jet ink printer in an issue of Atari
ST User at face value where they reported printing times
of up to 30 minutes for some pages using TIMEWORKS DTP.
In any case the 605 is quieter than my MEGAFILE 30 and I
find it fast enough that I don't feel that the printing
time is holding up my work. The 605 has a manual paper
feeder built right into the paper tray-no need to take
out the tray as in the 805. Even though I got a the 805
manual with my 605 I had no trouble setting it up despite
some differences.
It didn't come with LASERBRAIN the EPSON emulator but I
got it from a public domain distributor. It works fine
with WORDPERFECT. The only problem I have encountered are
the SLM804 drivers that come with LDW and WORDFLAIR II.
They don't work with the 605 and TOS 1.4. The SLM805 driver
that came with the laser printer does. So if you have problems
try the GDOS driver that comes with the laser printer.
To finish with a question can someone tell me if NEODESK
works okay with GPLUS + and its accessory that allows to
load in alternate assign files?
That's it.
Alyre Chiasson
CHIASSAL@UDEM
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 23:37:13 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!uflorida!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!jjl1
01@arizona.edu (J.J. Lehett)
Subject: Atari ST system for sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Atari 520 ST
SM124 mono monitor
SF354 disk drive
For sale altogether or as parts will take best offer(s) in the next few
weeks.
*************************************************************************
* J.J. * Internet: JJL101@PSUVM.PSU.EDU * Penn State *
* * * Center for *
* John Lehett * Bitnet: JJL101@PSUVM * Academic Computing *
*************************************************************************
* Atari ST's!, Puzzles, Cryptos, Games, Diplomacy, Synths + Midi *
*************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 04:01:09 GMT
From: tove.cs.umd.edu!hong@mimsy.umd.edu (sze nam hong)
Subject: Final games clearance
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The following software are for sale:
Stellar Crusade $9
Empire $9
Indy Graphic Adv. $9
Planetarium $9
Computer Hits 1 $7
Street Fighter $4
Axe of Rage $4
The Pawn $6
Shanghai $5
Death Sword $3
Gone Fishing $3
Borrowed Time $3
Death Sword $3
Phantasie III $6.
Please add $1 per title for shipping. Order over $15 and I will pay the
shipping.
hong@tove.umd.edu
Sze Hong
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 23:19:57 GMT
From: infonode!tensmekl@uunet.uu.net (Kermit Tensmeyer)
Subject: Hard Disks and the STE
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
When I bought (and finally received) my 1040 STE, I had major
problems accessing information on my Supra HD. The dealer
replaced my machine and some of the problems went away.
Some of the problems remained, ( Arc.ttp (or any executible)
executed from any drive, would lock up the system.
These problems, do not exist when used with the 1040ST.
In desperation I called the Supra tech support line
(503 967 9081) (9-4 pst). It was an interesting
conversation. After identifing my hard drive, and the
target system as a 1040. He wanted to know if it was
a ST or a STE. I told that the ST worked and the STE didn't and
he asked me what version of the Supra software I had. I told
him 3.02. He told me that the current version was 4.26.
He got my name and address and told me that a new disk
would be in todays mail.
My next disk will probably come from Supra.
I feel good about Atari computers again. I will most likely
order more software from the dealer who replaced my computer.
--
Kermit Tensmeyer | Intergraph Corporation
UUCP: ...uunet!infonode!tensmekl | One Madison Industrial Park
INTERNET: tensmekl@infonode.com | Mail Stop LR23A2
AT&T: (205)730-8127 | Huntsville, AL 35807-4201
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 02:15:24 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!ljdickey@
arizona.edu (L. J. Dickey)
Subject: Info about PD ST Midi Sequencers and DX librarians ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <808@wsl.ie> colm@wsl.ie (Colm Smyth on wsl) writes:
>I've an Atari ST, a Yamaha DX11, and a MIDI cable and I'd like to get them
>together in a meaningful way! If you know where I can get hold of
>
> (a) a PD/ShareWare/cheap seqencer program
> (b) a ditto DX voice librarian
>
>please reply by e-mail.
Me too. I'd like to try out such a program!
--
Prof L.J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1
internet: ljdickey@watmath.UWaterloo.ca BITNET/EARN: ljdickey@watdcs
obsolescent?: ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu
UUCP: ljdickey@watmath.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 23:33:35 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watmath!lsuc!
jimomura@arizona.edu (Jim Omura)
Subject: Lattice C
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have just received word that there is a 2nd edition manual that
is coming with newer versions of Lattice C version 5 that has better
documentation on assembly language. My manual is the 1st edition, dated
March 1990. People buying the very latest packages should be getting
the new manual.
But this raises the problem about updating the manuals. The
manuals are NOT the usual 3 ring binder type which one would expect
for compilers (which are prone to errors in the manuals) but rather
a set of wire-bounded books which makes it difficult to change pages.
The errata material in the "readme" disk file is getting a bit lengthy.
I'm wondering now what the policy is going to be regarding buying the
new manuals. It certainly would be cheaper if they could send out
loose-leaf updates when you send for compiler upgrades.
Anyway, I'm already stuck trying to port my program from Sozobon C
to Lattice C. The compiler seems fussier than I like. Still, assuming
I haven't hit a compiler glitch, I suppose it will result in better
code in the long run.
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 01:12:24 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!jjung@arizona.edu
(Robert Jung)
Subject: lynx games
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul11.111616.4708@crash.cts.com> chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
(Chuck Schul) writes:
>where are the 30 odd new games promissed they are slow to show up!!!
You haven't been a Lynx owner long, have you? B-) In any case, let's
remember
(1) There's still another 5-and-a-half months before the end of
the year. The "30 games release" is for all of '91.
(2) Well, WARBIRDS has been released, and I've seen CHECKERED FLAG,
TURBO SUB, VIKING CHILD, SCRAPYARD DOG, HARD DRIVIN', and
ISHIDO for the Lynx. I suggest you read rec.games.video to
get the latest Lynx news.
(3) Atari's switching from one factory in Taiwan to three. If this
is where Lynx games are manufactured, this action can
understandably have an impact on game production.
(4) This _is_ Atari, after all. Le sigh.
--R.J.
B-)
P.S. You can always go buy Telegames' FIDELITY ULTIMATE CHESS CHALLENGE for
the Lynx, too. And I hear that Telegames' QIX and KRAZY ACE MINIATURE GOLF
are due out this month...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
# ## # Send replies to jjung@nunki.usc.edu
# ## #
## ## ## I wrote this. If you've got a comment, give
#### ## #### it to me and let's cut out the middleman.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 03:49:13 GMT
From: tove.cs.umd.edu!hong@mimsy.umd.edu (sze nam hong)
Subject: mac rom/ mono multisync forsale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have a pair of Mac 128k rom (real apple), I don't know the current going
rate, but I would like to get something > $100. Please send me offer, (or
tell me I am asking too much.
I also have a multisync GS (gray scale) monitor by NEC, I dont have the manual,
looking for $130 I pay shipping, or best offer.
Please send email to hong@tove.umd.edu
Sze Hong
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 05:00:08 GMT
From: tove.cs.umd.edu!hong@mimsy.umd.edu (sze nam hong)
Subject: mac rom/multisync mono forsale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have a pair of Mac 128k rom (real apple), I don't know the current going
rate, but I would like to get something > $100. Please send me offer, (or
tell me I am asking too much.
I also have a multisync GS (gray scale) monitor by NEC, I dont have the manual,
looking for $130 I pay shipping, or best offer.
Please send email to hong@tove.umd.edu
Sze Hong
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 00:37:13 GMT
From: mcrware!mwca!bill@uunet.uu.net (Bill Sheppard)
Subject: Mupfel w/Neodesk 3
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've seen some wierdness when using Neodesk 3 and Mupfel, any help would be
appreciated:
If I run Mupfel (the CLI portion of Gemini) from Neodesk, upon exiting Mupfel
I will be returned to the desktop, not back to Neodesk. This is regardless of
whether I have Neodesk configured to unload itself before executing Mupfel.
Also (and stranger) if I run Mupfel from Neodesk, any program I run from
Mupfel will run _twice_. If I type "arc -v filename.arc", it will execute
normally, then execute again! This happens consistently, and I assume is
related to the above problem. It isn't only arc that does this, it's any
program (I believe), and I've tried it with PATH set to null and no aliases.
--
##############################################################################
# Bill Sheppard -- bills@microware.com -- {uunet,sun}!mcrware!mwca!bill #
# Microware Systems Corporation -- OS-9 / OS-9000 / CD-RTOS -- (408)980-0201 #
##### Opinions expressed are my own, though you'd be wise to adopt them! #####
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 18:57:04 GMT
From: unhd.unh.edu!oz!pyr579@uunet.uu.net (Technoid)
Subject: NCS Demo
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello,
I just got NCS_DEMO from atari.archive last night and I was very
impressed. However I'd like to talk to someone who has actually used in for
pixel recognition ( ie. handwriting and that sort of thing ). The system
says it can handle that sort of thing but they don't show it off in the
demo. Actually I'd be interested in talking to anyone who has used the
actual NCS software.
Stephan
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
pyr579@oz.plymouth.edu Stephan R. Cleaves Salamanders Are Cool...
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 20:45:43 GMT
From: cc.gatech.edu!dave@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dave Aylesworth)
Subject: no subject (file transmission)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am having a difficult time configuring a used mega 2 I just bought
with TOS 1.4 and a Tweety sound board installed. I am trying to
use it with my SH205 hard disk. I get random bus errors(2 bombs) and
illegal instructions(4 bombs) when executing programs on the hard disk,
especially anything in the AUTO folder. I also can't get the machine
to boot off of the hard drive when I use HINSTALL.PRG from atari.archive.
If anyone has a setup similar to this please let me know how your system
is set up (how you formatted your drive, what is in your AUTO folder, etc.)
Thank you in advance.
dave@cc.gatech.edu
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 20:46:10 GMT
From: cc.gatech.edu!dave@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Dave Aylesworth)
Subject: no subject (file transmission)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am having trouble unpacking HDX301.LZH off of atari.archive.umich.edu.
I get CRC errors when unpacking it with a couple different programs.
Could someone please let me know where a more reliable version is
or mail it to me. I need HDX 3.01 and HINSTALL 3.01.
Also from what I was able to extract, the dialogue boxes say it is
version 3.0 ???
Thank you in advance
dave@cc.gatech.edu
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 23:42:18 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mp
s.ohio-state.edu!linac!unixhub!lll-winken!taco!taco.cc!twmanino@arizona.edu
(TONY W MANINO)
Subject: Pagestream 2.01 Shipping!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In case anyone is interested...
I requested the update to Pagestream 1.82 -> 2.01, and I finally received
it yesterday! I haven't had a chance to use it much, though, but I thought
some of you guys might want to know that it IS shipping!
External observations...
Comes with 4 disks:
- Pagestream program disk
- Pagestream fonts disk
- 2 CompuGraphic fonts disks
Documentation:
- A staple-bound "QuickStart Manual" -- tells about installation of the
software and gives a VERY basic start to desktop publishing.
- A "User Guide" -- This is a spiral bound manual, as opposed to the
3-ring binding of the previous version. I find this easier to work
with; it lays flatter, and the pages are easier to turn.
- A function reference card.
I'll comment on the workings of the program once I get a good grasp of the
new features. (I'm sure I won't be the only one!)
Tony
twmanino@eos.ncsu.edu
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 13:55:12 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-sta
te.edu!linac!midway!clout!chinet!saj@arizona.edu (Stephen Jacobs)
Subject: PageStream VS Calmus
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul9.205549.5488@msb.com> ritz@msb.com (Chris Mauritz) writes:
>
>The only reason, however, I could see for buying an ST for DTP is a
>severely tight budget. A Mac Classic or Mac LC with Pagemaker costs
>a little more, but provides superior results.
No comment about a Mac LC, but I'd have second (and third, and....) thoughts
before undertaking DTP on a Mac classic. Something about small, moderate-
resolution screen and limited RAM.
I've used Pagestream for some small, intricate stuff, and it works very well
for that. I believe the question concerned jobs on the order of magazine
production, and the obvious place to ask would be around Current Notes and
AIM. I believe they're both done with Calamus now, but DON'T take my word.
If Chris is really mellowing with age, more power to him.
Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 21:17:03 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!maytag!watmath
!mwtilden@arizona.edu (Mark W. Tilden)
Subject: Racter: Is there a ST equivalent anywhere?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
C.M.Borges' limerick program reminded me...
An old Scientific American article once discribed a program called
'Racter' which was a nonsensical syntax generator. It could
form perfectly correct grammatical sentences but of often
hilarious content. So good that it was used to generate the
book 'the policemans beard is half-constructed'.
Is there a similar one for the ST anywhere?
Is all.
--
Mark Tilden: _-_-_-__--__--_ /(glitch!) M.F.C.F Hardware Design Lab.
-_-___ | \ /\/ U of Waterloo. Ont. Can, N2L-3G1
|__-_-_-| \/ (519) - 885 - 1211 ext.2454,
"MY OPINIONS, YOU HEAR!? MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! MINE! AH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!"
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jul 91 02:20:55 GMT
From: noao!ncar!midway!clout!chinet!irons@arizona.edu (Jim Irons)
Subject: ST software for sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This is a repost of a previous message with an updated list.
I am giving my Atari to the kids and want to sell most of my ST
software collection. These are all original release diskettes,
most with the original documentation. They are priced to sell
as I need the money to buy a scanner for my 386SX. I have the
following items:
All-Aboard $5 Alt $3
Ansiterm $3 DBMan v. 3.00G $10
Deep Space $5 Disk Doctor $3
Elite $5
Flexcessory $3
Flight Sim & sc.7,11,Er $15
Hrd Dsk Accel $3 High Roller $5
Interlink-ST $5 K-Switch $3
Leviathan $3 M-Disk Plus $3
Major Motion $3
Menace $3 Mi-Term 3.0 $5
Multi-Desk $3
Oids $3 Oscar $3
Personal Pascal $5
Procopy & A-Copier $5 Renegade $3
Rogue $5 Silent Service $3
St-Control $10
StKey $3 STOS & Compiler $15
Sundog $3 Tanglewood $5
Test Drive $5 Tracker $3
Trivia Challenge $3
PC-Ditto I $10
This is an editted list with all items remaining as of 7-6-91.
If interested in any or all of these please call Jim Irons at
708-386-0804. Make me an offer for the whole thing and I'll
come down even further.
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 23:27:24 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.w
isc.edu!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!maytag!watmath!ljdickey@arizona.edu (L. J.
Dickey)
Subject: Two Questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9107081656.AA08301@cwns6.INS.CWRU.Edu> ab016@cleveland.Freenet.Edu
asks about MidiMaze II documentation in English.
The Atari user's group of Kitchener - Waterloo (called KWEST) posted a
translation of this to Atari Archives at University of Michigan some
time ago. You can get them there, in the directory "atari/games",
with the name "mdmz2doc.lzh" .
Happy Midi Maze II.
--
Prof L.J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1
internet: ljdickey@watmath.UWaterloo.ca BITNET/EARN: ljdickey@watdcs
obsolescent?: ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu
UUCP: ljdickey@watmath.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 20:29:36 GMT
From: bu.edu!m2c!wpi.WPI.EDU!douglas@uunet.uu.net (Douglas C White)
Subject: Wanted/For Sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am looking to buy a used monochrome monitor for
my 1040st. Also I am selling my complete
Master Tracks Pro sequencer package with the latest
version (3.5 I believe). If interested or wanting to
sell please reply..
Thanks,
Doug White
(508) 831-5237 (weekdays)
(508) 835-6772 (eves, weekends)
or reply via net
--
Douglas White douglas@wpi.wpi.edu
Dept. of Chem. Eng.
WPI
------------------------------
Date: 11 Jul 91 20:57:45 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!grapevine!t
witterpater.eng.sun.com@arizona.edu (Steven Grimm)
Subject: Zoo 2.1 - first impressions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Zoo 2.1 is pretty impressive, all right. As soon as someone submits a working
ST version to both the sources and binaries groups, I'll start accepting
submissions in zoo 2.1 format. It'll be nice to get away from the lharc
controversy once and for all. (I have no special attachment to the program,
as some have claimed; it just gave the best compression at the time.)
My results, on a directory with sources, SPARC executables, and object code:
-rw------- 1 koreth 529819 May 14 17:01 g.zoo
-rw------- 1 koreth 592796 Jul 11 13:12 g.lzh
-rw------- 1 koreth 618165 Jul 11 13:49 g.tar.Z
-rw------- 1 koreth 751796 May 14 17:01 g.oldzoo
-rw------- 1 koreth 829703 May 14 18:01 g.arc
Not too shabby.
---
Steven Grimm koreth@eng.sun.com Moderator, comp.{sources,binaries}.atari.st
"We must be brave, and not let them know how frightened we really are."
-- OPEN LOOK Graphical User Interface Functional Specification
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
