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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 379
Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 8 Jul 91 Volume 91 : Issue 379
Today's Topics:
1.44M formatting..
amiga-atari war
amiga 68010,and 68000 16 mhz?
Atari 1040st For Sale
BART is back
Breaking links in a hard disk (ACSI) chain
CAD-program
CAD Programs
Help! -- SupraModem 2400+ Flow Contr
Hertz switcher recv'd
lharc 1321 (2 msgs)
Midi maze ll
More on what Atari does have (MIDI)
NY/NE Atari Dealers
Portfolio in T2 (Terminator 2)
Problem w/ TeX 3.1 at atari.archive (was Re: getting TeX up and running on your
ST)
unix windows ????
Y.T. on the move
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 22:48:43 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!maytag!watmath
!ljdickey@arizona.edu (L.J.Dickey)
Subject: 1.44M formatting..
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul5.184152.20950@netcom.COM> yonder@netcom.COM
(Christopher Russell) writes:
>I was thinking about trying to hookup this 1.44M drive that I have
>here. I have a few files that explain how it is done (basically
>get 16Mhz to the WD1772). Anyways, I was going to try it out, but
>I don't have a 1.44M formatting program. Is one available at
>atari.archive, or could somebody mail me one? Thanks...
There is one that has appeared in the news group
comp.binaries.atari.st
Its name, IBMFMT, sadly, is the same as another program that
has already appeared. The earlier program is IBMFMT.TOS, is
the first formatter I found that allowed me to format floppies
on my ST that I could use on the PC at the office. I still
find it useful.
The most recent program is called "ibmfmt.prg", and it is this
one that is designed to format floppies on higher density drives.
I have not tried it yet, but I would like to :-).
If there is any doubt, this table may help you to find the right
program.
Date Prog name Size Author
1989 July IBMFMT.TOS 3936 Moshe Braner
1990 May ? IBMFMT.TOS 3968 Moshe Braner
1991 July ibmfmt.prg 5760 Y.Tsuji
--
Prof L.J. Dickey, Faculty of Mathematics, U of Waterloo, Canada N2L 3G1
internet: ljdickey@watmath.UWaterloo.ca BITNET/EARN: ljdickey@watdcs
obsolescent?: ljdickey@watmath.waterloo.edu
UUCP: ljdickey@watmath.UUCP ..!uunet!watmath!ljdickey
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 91 10:15:59 GMT
From:
math.fu-berlin.de!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@uunet.uu.net
(Claus Brod)
Subject: amiga-atari war
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Roger.Sheppard@actrix.gen.nz (Roger Sheppard) writes:
>Try to copy Files on A Amiga and format disk, all there commands are external,
>they have to be loaded from disk, that is why they have to use 2 disk drives,
That's a limitation of the real brain-dead old CLI. Most Amiga users have
some different shell to work with. Remember the oooold COMMAND.PRG
early STers used to compile Alcyon C programs? This baby wasn't much
prettier...
>also they only write tracks, not sectors, and with out CRC checking,
>they only do sum checks..
Probably depends on the trackdisk.device and filesystem you're running.
>Also all the Virus problems that they have, you can't write protect
>the disks as they don't use a dive controller ic.
Every modern disk drive I know has a built-in write-protect check.
Even if you fool the Amiga's hardware into thinking a non-protected
disk has been inserted, the drive itself will prevent data from being
written. They have a lot of virus problems, that's true, but that's only
because there are so many A500s around which are solely used for playing
games. Amiga owners who don't run pirated software will be spared.
>There file format is very Slow and there machine runs some 30% slower
>than a ST, this is because of the wait states that they have, no transparent
>video or ram refreshinger.
Again, depends on the installed filesystem. Most Amiga owners run
FFS on their system, and while this is not really a speed dog, it's
bearable. You can also use the FAT filesystem with MS-DOS filesystem
drivers, at least on floppy disks. I don't know if that's possible
with hard disks, too.
30% slower? It is slower in raw computing power, that's true. But you
certainly won't feel a 30% decline in speed when changing to the
Amiga.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 18:02:28 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov!hyc@arizona.edu
(Howard Chu)
Subject: amiga 68010,and 68000 16 mhz?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul6.095639.18532@crash.cts.com> chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
(Chuck Schul) writes:
>i read on the amiga net that you can remove 68000 chip and replace with 8
>mhz 68010 for faster operation hardly no software problems if you do there
>are software patches to help.can this be done on the st;s? also the can put
>a 16 mhz 68000 with ram chip and software patch to run faster also.can this
>also be done on the atari and why not.they seem to have a good cheap
>upgrade fix for thjose who cannnot afford 500 for a fastv 68030 board!
There are (at least) two companies selling 16MHz 68000 kits for STs. No
software patches are required, and both kits come with fast RAM caches to
increase throughput.
TOS versions older than 1.6 cannot cope with 68020 or higher, and probably
need patching to handle 68010 as well. The 68010 offers such limited speedup,
it's not likely that many (old) TOS routines are written to take advantage
of the 68010 loop mode.
Dave Small has posted a couple times in the past about 68030 upgrades for the
ST and STe. The STe's TOS is already compatible with the 68030; the ST kit
comes with a patched version of TOS 1.6 from the STe... The trick is to
interface the 68030 with the 16 bit 68000 bus. Dave Small seems to have
solved that problem, as have a few other folks.
--
-- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here!
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 91 06:17:54 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!midiline.UUCP!peter@arizona.edu (Xorcist)
Subject: Atari 1040st For Sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
[3] - Atari 1040ST system. (No Monitor) - $500
- o Stereo-Tek 3-D glasses!
o 2400 Baud modem! (No cable)
o 512K Ramdisk card for side cart. (no case, plain card)
o Mystery case/card (clock?) for side cart.
o STOS game creator
o Tracker game
o Lombard Ralley game
Contact Peter Via GEnia (P.Stone) or at 415-472-4639 (Days Only Please)
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 19:48:12 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!umich!terminator!terminator.cc.umich.e
du!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner)
Subject: BART is back
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Problem is fixed, bart is back. Have fun.
weiner
--
Jeff Weiner --- weiner@{engin, atari.archive}.umich.edu
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 21:38:55 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!udel!haven.umd.edu!umbc3.umbc
.edu!gmuvax2!scoile@arizona.edu (elioC evetS)
Subject: Breaking links in a hard disk (ACSI) chain
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Anyone know a way to repoll the devices?
Or, perhaps more validly, CAN one re-poll the devices?
I've got two hard drives. The second I don't use very often, so don't normally
power it up when I boot the machine, but sometimes I end up needing it, and it
is SUCH a pain to have to REBOOT the entire system just to get one lousy HD
on-line. Anyone know if there's a way around that?
Steve "Stevers!" Coile scoile@gmuvax[{.BITNET|[2].gmu.edu}]
"Maturity is knowing when and where to act immature"
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jul 91 11:18
From: "Grupp , Andreas"
<JG05%DKAUNI2.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: CAD-program
To: Atari ST Info Liste <INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
Jim Yegerlehner asked the guys in germany for infos on CAD programs,
especially on BeckerCAD.
A friend of mine has bought it and is not at all satisfied. The
program seems to have some bugs. You need GDOS and every time you
are ready it is necessary to reboot the machine. Probably because
of these features Becker is now selling another program, but I
got no infos on it.
For me yet the best program is CampusCAD or his updates, but I can
give no infos on it
Andreas
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 7 Jul 91 23:58:58 -0400
From: astre@halfog.asrc.albany.edu (A.S.T.R.E.)
Subject: CAD Programs
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Re: James D Yegerlehner / "CAD Programs" in ia16-377
I have been a user of BeckerCAD on and off for the last year and a
half. My advice is to avoid the program. All in all, it isn't that
bad a program, although I have found it unsatisfactory. Here are my
experiences:
1. As a drafting program it functions fairly well (although I have
little experience in this area). One problem I had was drawing arcs.
I use the program to draw rockets and use arcs to represent ogive
noses, etc. The reference point for arcs is the upper left hand
corner of a square circumscribing the circle of which your arc is a
part of.
I.e.: x __- x upper left "x" is reference point
\ | "*" is center of circle
\| "__-" is the arc in question
*
x x
The problem is that you must be able to fit both your arc and its
reference point onto your page, not easy if the arc is supposed to be
at the upper left hand corner of the page. This is particularly tough
with large radius arcs where your radius may be 10-20 inches. (My fix
is putting an inverted arc at the bottom of a larger page and
mirroring it into place; very CHAD and a pain in the ass.)
2. The program had little glitches like the occasional inability to
save/load objects or mysteriously changing line width when you weren't
looking. This is reportedly better with the latest update (1.29),
although I haven't thoroughly checked it out.
3. Output is the big problem (what good is the program if you can't
get any hard copy?). I have tried three options and only one is
satisfactory:
A. GDOS 9-pin - On my Panasonic 1080i (FX-80 driver) it prints
drawings compressed 10% in the vertical. According to Abacus
"This is a problem in GDOS", although MiGraph (EasyDraw)
apparently managed to solve it years ago.
B. Postscript to disk - Nothing but the simplest drawings will
print on several PS lasers I've tried, my PS guru says the
driver generates "illegal, garbage code".
C. HPGL to disk - This works with an HP plotter, although I
haven't been able to get it to recognize different pen widths
(this may be on the plotter end, though).
Note - it also has an Atari Laser driver which I have not tried.
As you can see, it isn't a very professional (or even usable)
package. Abacus doesn't seemed too concerned about it (they just
mailed me update disks when I requested them on the phone, no "what's
your program's serial number" or anything). If you could get a copy
for $20 to play with, OK; otherwise, don't pay real money for it and
expect a useful tool.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Jeff Vincent / ASTRE // ASTRE = Competition Rocketry //
// astre@halfog.asrc.albany.edu // Publisher of STAR-DATE //
//------------------------------------------------------------------//
// "So, like, do you guys ride in these things?" //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jul 91 08:15:00 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!mcshh!malihh!pfunk!blackbox@uunet.uu.net (Michael
Kistenmacher)
Subject: Help! -- SupraModem 2400+ Flow Contr
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <y8DD51w164w@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca>, Michel Forget writes:
>smilar problem with DTerm. I have Tos 1.4. I also tried installing a
>program called Turbo CTS (it had no docs, but what harm could it do?)
>with no affect. I hope someone can help me out with this problem.
I've just sent an archive with some HighSpeed-Utilities to Steven Grimm,
including a new RTS/CTS Fix from here. Perhaps you may find it in
c.b.a.s next week.
Ciao....Michael
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| listen to the coolest ! | Michael Kistenmacher / blackbox |
| Music from the Galaxy ! | 2000 Hamburg 61 / Schippelsweg 64 |
| !!! P-Funk !!! | West Germany / ++ 49 40 552 37 66 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 22:47:09 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jones_Woodwo
rth@arizona.edu
Subject: Hertz switcher recv'd
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Thank you, Weiner sent me 50hzboot.prg. Now to try acid2.
Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 00:13:22 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!uc!apctrc!drd
!d.cs.okstate.edu!cummins@arizona.edu (John Cummins)
Subject: lharc 1321
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have long ago given over to ArcShell by Charles Johnson and when I
heard all the hoopla about lharc1321, I had to get it.
AARGH....... Seems I needed lzhcatch2 also.....
Humm... well... I suppose there's still something amiss, but the
error messages are in German, and ger2eng.tos is of little help!
Okay.... back to lharc060 for me!!!
Anythink else?
jc
cummmins@d.cs.okstate.edu
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 19:37:53 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!uwm.edu!lll-winken!aunro!ersy
s!mforget@arizona.edu (Michel Forget)
Subject: lharc 1321
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
cummins@d.cs.okstate.edu (John Cummins) writes:
> AARGH....... Seems I needed lzhcatch2 also.....
>
What is "LZHCATCH2" for? All you need is the program LHARC.TTP to use
Lharc. At least that is all that I use. Here are the command lines for
add and extract.
Add:
a A:\EXAMPLE.LZH B:\DATA\*.*
The first filename is the name of the archive, and the tells LZH where to
get the files to compress. If you want to compress entire directories,
use the '-r' switch. That will take files from inside folders as it
goes. When it extracts, it will even create the folders again. I'm not
sure how to use commens, though.
Extract:
x A:\EXAMPLE.LZH B:\*.*
The second filename is optional. It only says where the files are to go,
or what file (or files) to extract if it has an actual filename or a
filename with wildcards.
Lharc 1.1321 is the standard, so try not to use the older programs that
are only partially compatible.
I hope this helps you out.
<< ---------------------------------- >>
<< ersys!mforget@nro.cs.athabascau.ca >>
<< mforget@ersys.edmonton.ab.ca >>
<< Michel Forget >>
<< "He's dead, Jim..." - Bones >>
<< ---------------------------------- >>
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jul 91 08:17:48 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!mcshh!malihh!pfunk!blackbox@uunet.uu.net (Michael
Kistenmacher)
Subject: Midi maze ll
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <11375@castle.ed.ac.uk>, R C Smith writes:
>What is 50 DM in either \pounds or $ ?
1 USD is worth about 1.80 DM, 1 \pound (:-) is worth about 3 DM.
Bye.....Michael
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
| listen to the coolest ! | Michael Kistenmacher / blackbox |
| Music from the Galaxy ! | 2000 Hamburg 61 / Schippelsweg 64 |
| !!! P-Funk !!! | West Germany / ++ 49 40 552 37 66 |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 23:30:01 GMT
From: iWarp.intel.com!ichips!intelhf!agora!robart@uunet.uu.net (Robert Barton)
Subject: More on what Atari does have (MIDI)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul7.060944.8671@ringer.cs.utsa.edu> tgimon@ringer.cs.utsa.edu
(Thomas Gimon) writes:
>A few facts:
>
> 1) The Amiga suffers from timing problems which keep it from being
> considered for most professional MIDI work. This is due to the
> Amiga having only one hardware timer. This timer can not be
> reliably used by application software since the OS can reset or
> adjust this timer **AT ANY TIME AND WITHOUT WARNING**.
>
> MIDI software for the Amiga has to rely on software timing; which
> is not suitable for professional work.
This is incorrect. Please issue a retraction to the net.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 91 00:00:34 -0400
From: astre@halfog.asrc.albany.edu (A.S.T.R.E.)
Subject: NY/NE Atari Dealers
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Re: Keith J. Mullins / "Atari Dealers" in ia16-372
Keith,
I do hate when these "doom and gloomers" go about the nets
spreading their stock and trade without imparting any useful
information (BobR in ia16-373).
I live in the Capital District (Albany, NY) and we have an Atari
dealer: The Computer Cellar in the Westgate Plaza, Albany, NY. They
have a fairly good selection of software and magazines, although no
new hardware (STE/MegaSTE/TT).
(This should be of some interest to PhilZ on the net a few weeks
back [sorry I couldn't reply sooner but my net access has been spotty
lately]. PhilZ, check the BBSs at 237-1232 or 475-1446 for more
CapDist Atari info.)
A bit closer to home is the Computer Bug in Hadley, MA. While I
don't have a phone or address handy, a call to Hadley directory
assistance should set you in the right direction. I have never been
there, but I have heard them mentioned favorably in the past. I hope
this helps you out.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Jeff Vincent / ASTRE // ASTRE = Competition Rocketry //
// astre@halfog.asrc.albany.edu // Publisher of STAR-DATE //
//------------------------------------------------------------------//
// "So, like, do you guys ride in these things?" //
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 16:28:35 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!qt.cs.utexas.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.
edu!rcte2p@arizona.edu (Paul S. Sears)
Subject: Portfolio in T2 (Terminator 2)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
iho@akbar.cac.washington.edu (Il Oh) presents in article
<1991Jul6.034623.14597@milton.u.washington.edu>
>I know that this isn't really about ST's, but I've seen stuff about other
>Atari products here. Nobody's mentioned this yet. They clearly use a
>Portfolio in Terminator 2. John Connor (Linda Hamilton's character's
>son) uses it to "plug into" a bank ATM and steal money. It looks like
>somebody at Atari was on the ball with this one.
Yeah, the kid also uses the Portfolio to break the locked security
system at lab too....
>--
>Il Hwan Oh |"Sometimes of late years I find myself thinking
>Univ. of Washington, Tacoma | the most beautiful sight in the world might be
>iho@cac.washington.edu | the birds taking over New York City after the
> | last man has run away to the hills"
Way to go Atari!
--
* Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power
* The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that
* RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him."
* RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 23:48:25 GMT
From: cadence!cadence.com!bammi@uunet.uu.net (Jwahar R. Bammi)
Subject: Problem w/ TeX 3.1 at atari.archive (was Re: getting TeX up and running
on your ST)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <RALPH.91Jul4185158@orion.laas.fr> ralph@laas.fr (Ralph P. Sobek)
writes:
> First of all, it is true that with the new TeX 3.1, undump would
> probably not run on a 1040 since the undumped file is approx. 800 Kb!!
> (as David Paschall-Zimbel stated). The older Tex 2.9, I was able to
> undump on my old 1040 ST and it produced something a lot smaller.
the size of the undumped executable depends on the
configuration you use to compile TeX to size the arrays. for TeX 2.9 i
made up three configurations, for 1, 2 and 4M machines (see "tex.h").
similar sizing of the arrays can be done for TeX 3.0. The size in
memory of either the undumped or straight executable is no different.
Only the size on disk differs because the BSS section is now stored as
initialized data.
>
> A related question: has anyone ported BigTeX to the ST? I use the
> above undumped LaTeX and it blows up since I exhaust TeX's pool!!
dont need to port anything, just size up the arrays, and
re-compile. make sure that you size them so that you can still fit the
executable in memory.
> BibTeX under the TeX 3.1 directory at atari.archive use incompatible
the source for bibTeX was never posted (jeff long???) unfortunately.
--
--
bang: uunet!cadence!bammi jwahar r. bammi
domain: bammi@cadence.com
GEnie: J.Bammi
CIS: 71515,155
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jul 91 21:36:58 GMT
From: noao!ncar!asuvax!ukma!vlsi!ulkyvx.bitnet!klcray01@arizona.edu
Subject: unix windows ????
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
what is the unix windows program for the st?
where can i get a copy of it?
keith craycraft
klcray01@ulkyvx.edu
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jul 91 12:54:24 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ccut!wnoc-tyo-news!toum
on!commgw!wucc!ytsuji@arizona.edu (Y.Tsuji)
Subject: Y.T. on the move
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jul4.221418.4179@desire.wright.edu>, cse0507@desire.wright.edu
writes:
> This is one of MY feral massages to the fears of the Atari ST community.
> I am very, very sorry. That is, I have had to get rid of my ST and
> leave this community. Note that I have been unhoppy with Apple, and I could
> not afford to place two computers on my desk, and the ST had to go.
>
> [*** lots of stuff deleted ***]
>
> So far, a rather sad story, yes? _I'm_ cryin'. My ST is gonna go, too.
> I don't have room for two computers either, so my ST is going to get
> shoved aside. What is the new machine? A TT, of course. :-)
> Geez, gimme a break from sob stories.
> BS
A bad joke, really. I couldn't possibly understand why people buy a TT
when they have an ST already unless you desperately need a VME bus or an
ethernet connector. What else are the difference? You couldn't be serious
if you said TT's ran faster or did something better. If your TT has a 19"
monitor and your OS supports the X protocol, then you can say you needed
to buy a TT because your ST could not do that. Or are there software
that run only on TT's? I suppose there may be some, but I wasn't lucky
enough to have heard of any (Most likely something in Deutche Sprache).
We bought our ST because we thought we liked to do something with it and
knew it could. As a loyal ex-Atarian, I cannot stand people who talk as
if we needed to buy an Amiga or a TT to do some word processing, terminal
emulation, etc.
I actually have bought a workstation, but life has been terrible since.
The room has to be cleaned and air conditioned; the system has to be powered
on all the time; the noise of fans are terrible, etc.
Cheers,
Y.T.
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
