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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 325
Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 10 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 325
Today's Topics:
A.A. :
arc602.ttp or unarc.ttp question
G++ at A.A. from ftp.thp.koeln.de
GCC -g and G++ bogon alert!?! (2 msgs)
GNU Emacs Pure Lisp Storage space
Gripes about UW (was Re: X for the ST?)
Latest ver. of Prospero-C & Fortran
Mint ?
More than 4 Meg ??
New version of BASH 1.05 for MiNT
path to Gadgets (2 msgs)
Re: Man w/ pipe
Reading TOS/DOS diskette on the SparcStation
System 7 on the GCR (from dsmall)
TT ram revisited
X for the ST? (Unix Windows)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 09:57:16 GMT
From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins)
Subject: A.A. :
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am trying to clean up the gnustuff directory on A.A. I will try and create an
A.A.-hosted GCC cros-compiler, so that A.A. has binaries for the most recent
patches.
The most notable problem is that A.A. does not have the ST-specific diffs to
create the ST port of GCC 1.39 --- we have only binaries.
Other (example) problems are:
util.zoo --- has nm.c from the Sozobon distribution and a spurious
Patchlevel (14, should be either 13 or 15).
include.zoo --- does not include math.h nor stab.def
Here are the current Patchlevels of the central ST versions of GNU sources at
A.A.
curses.zoo - PathLevel: 7 (sic)
flex.zoo - no patchlevel included
gemlib.zoo - PathLevel: 15 (sic)
include.zoo - PatchLevel: 62
libsrc.zoo - PathLevel: 62 (sic)
pmlsrc.zoo - PathLevel: 8 (sic)
util.zoo - PathLevel: 14 (sic)
I'd be grateful for uploads of verifiable later versions of any of the above
sources and also verifiable sources (diffs from FSF distribution) for GCC 1.39.
Graham
======
------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk
Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh
Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 7 Jun 91 17:27:44 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!rex!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a
rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: arc602.ttp or unarc.ttp question
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
[In article <727@bigfoot.first.gmd.de>,
ralph@prosun.first.gmd.de (Ralph Berg) writes ... ]
> How can I tell arc602.ttp or unarc.ttp to store on
> extraction the files into another directory as where
> the archiver programms resides???
>
> When I use unarc.ttp with "x c:\tmp\any.arc" the
> extracted files will be stored where the unarc program
> is called ??
I tried responding via email, but my friendly neighborhood Internet
host said:
550 ralph@prosun.first.gmd.de... Host unknown
Anyway, ARC and UNARC place extracted files into the *current*
directory. If you are running from the GEM Desktop, it's likely that
you have made unarc's or arc's directory the current directory by
topping its window.
Try topping the window where you want the objects to be placed, then
hold down the SHIFT key and double-click on arc.ttp or unarc.ttp in a
background window. That will instruct GEM to run the program without
switching to its directory.
You won't have this problem if you run your archiver from a
command-line shell or special GEM shell.
----
Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota, USA / steve@thelake.mn.org
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 09:46:36 GMT
From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!ghiggins!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins)
Subject: G++ at A.A. from ftp.thp.koeln.de
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This archive has been withdrawn from A.A. following an adverse report which
indicates that the archive's integrity has been compromised.
G++ is case-sensitive to its support files, apparently the archive prog
blithely switched them all to upper case.
The lack of documentation, author identification and sources only add to the
problem.
BTW --- This seems to be another example promoting the argument for compressed
tar files.
Graham
======
------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk
Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh
Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 12:04:04 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!rzsun2.informatik.uni-hamburg.de!rospc1!hess@uunet.uu.net
(Hauke Hess)
Subject: GCC -g and G++ bogon alert!?!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello,
I have a problem with the gcc 1.39 and the g++ from the koeln ftp site.
If I try to compile the following program with g++:
#include<stream.h>
int main(){ cout << "Hello World\n"; }
All works niecly until the link run. Then the linker says: Bogon alert: wrote
xxx Symbols, yyy expected. And the resulting file is not a TOS executable
(TOS error 66: not an executable program).
The same happens, when I compile a normal gcc program with the gdb option "-g".
Then there is another number of wrote/expected symbols, but the resulting
program again is not executable.
Has anyone encountered this problem and perhaps already solved it?
Hauke Hess / University Hamburg (so write in german, if you like)
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 17:21:19 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!ukma!psuvax1!psuvm!dearn!dmswwu1c!zvd007@arizona.edu (U.Kuehn)
Subject: GCC -g and G++ bogon alert!?!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <hess.676555444@rospc1>, hess@rospc1.informatik.uni-hamburg.de (Hauke
Hess) says:
>If I try to compile the following program with g++:
>#include<stream.h>
>int main(){ cout << "Hello World\n"; }
>
>All works niecly until the link run. Then the linker says: Bogon alert: wrote
>xxx Symbols, yyy expected. And the resulting file is not a TOS executable
>(TOS error 66: not an executable program).
>
>The same happens, when I compile a normal gcc program with the gdb option
>"-g".
The Problem is , that the linker does not handle the DRI-compatible symboltable
in the correct way, so try using the -s option to advice the linker to
strip off the symboltable.
Bye the way, I've got the stuff from koeln, too, and I dont have that problem;
maybe you are not using the linker provided in the package in the cs-directory
at the site.
U.Kuehn
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 13:31:32 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ux1.cso.uiuc.edu
!uxa.cso.uiuc.edu!jsh44765@arizona.edu (Jonathan S Hofmann)
Subject: GNU Emacs Pure Lisp Storage space
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I just ftp'd GNU Emacs for my Mega 2, unpacked it, and tried to run it.
It ran the .el files through keydefs.el, and then said 'Pure lisp storage
exhausted'. I do not have the sources, nor do I have the 10 meg free for the
sources. Could someone please tell me what's going wrong? I'm trying to
run Emacs from Gulam. Thanx!
=========================================================================
Scott Hofmann | "It's all devestatingly true,
hofmann@sumter.cso.uiuc.edu | except the parts that are lies."
jsh@anlhep.hep.anl.gov | - Douglas Adams
=========================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 16:48:18 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu
!rcte2p@arizona.edu (Paul S. Sears)
Subject: Gripes about UW (was Re: X for the ST?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) presents in article <2392@netmbx.UUCP>
>limsico@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (Carl Limsico) writes:
>
[Question on the availability of X for the ST deleted..]
>There is!
>I have seen it on the c-bit this year.
>It was a st with x-win connected to a unix-tt.
>But it was not working too good. :-(
>As far as I seen it....
>
>On the other hand there is a programm called UW (unix windows).
>
>I think it was designed for the mac first, but it has been
>ported to the st by someone.
I have used UW many times but there is one thing about it that really
_BOTHERS_ me. The mouse cursor is always displayed, so that it flickers
and slows down the screen. Now, I wish someone would hack the ST side
of the code to turn off the mouse cursor until the mouse is moved or one
of the mous buttons are pressed (like Uniterm does). This would
significantly speed up the screen too... and it would be much less
annoying... I don't have a C compiler to even thing about it....
>
>After typing *UW* in the first window the host starts Unix-Windows and
>from now on you can use, I think about 6, windows.
>So I am able to work at different suns at the same time......
>Thats fun :-)
>(So my st could "have" 100 MIP's ore more... )
>
>so long
>
> -- --- good old perstoro --- --
--
* Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power
* The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that
* RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him."
* RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 15:59:49 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!atha!aunro!alberta!arcsun.arc.ab.ca!e
rkamp@arizona.edu (Bob Erkamp)
Subject: Latest ver. of Prospero-C & Fortran
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
This is a reply I got a few months back re: Prospero Software and versions.
Bob
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originator: prosof@compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: Updates
The latest versions are 2.153 for Fortran, and 1.144 for C. Both fix
all known 'incompatibilities' that occurred with TOS 1.4
The cost of updating to the current versions is 30 UK pounds, and the
master disks will need to be returned with payment (either by a
cheque drawn on a UK bank or by credit card) to the address below.
Regards
Paul Hargreaves.
Prospero Software Ltd.
190 Castelnau
London
SW13 9DH
England.
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 12:51:27 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!cs.utexas.edu!oakhill!Jim_Holt%aprdlgtr.sps.mo
t.com@arizona.edu (Jim Holt)
Subject: Mint ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Please forgive me if this has been answered countless times ...
I have seen quite a few references to MINT in this group. I
am curious about what it is ? Is this something like Unix
for an ST ? If so, how/where does one obtain it ?
Thanks,
JH
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 08:24:37 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: More than 4 Meg ??
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <2642@m1.cs.man.ac.uk> camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk (Ian Camm) writes:
> Well 2.5Mb does work on my 520STE with TOS 1.6, but it does think there
>are 4Mb there. I have not had any problems yet but I have not (knowingly)
>tried to use all of the memory thus far. I have the feeling that when I
>do I will commit mass bit murder :-) by trying to throw them into spaces that
>aren't there. I will try changing the boards round and let you know what
>happens.
What you have is 2.5Mb of RAM with the last 512K duplicated 4 times. Your
machine thinks it has 4Mb. If you create a 2Mb RAM disk that sits in low
RAM then use your machine you'll see weird behaviour as the multiple images
get used. You need a little patch program that checks phystop and the memory
controller at bootup andif it's 4Mb set it to 2.5Mb then reboot.
Actually what we all need is for Atari to fix the &~%*$ ROMs!
Does TOS 1.62 have the same problem?
>Ian Camm | JANET: camm@uk.ac.man.ee.els
>Dept. of Electrical Engineering | ARPA: camm@els.ee.man.ac.uk
>University of Manchester, England | UUCP: ...!!ukc!man.ee.els!camm
>Disclaimer: If you think I need one make it up yourself.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 SIMMs!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 11:05:24 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!keele!nott-cs!dpg@uunet.uu.net (Dave Gymer)
Subject: New version of BASH 1.05 for MiNT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <ERLINGH.91Jun8132005@sigyn.idt.unit.no> erlingh@sigyn.idt.unit.no
(Erling Henanger) writes:
>Please send binaries and patches, maybe as two separate files if the
>patches are big.
Everyone who has replied so far has asked for binaries, so I've now sent them
off. The diffs are very small, and are included in the .zoo. Enjoy!
You'll have to report any bugs to me soon, as I won't have any access to the
net from the start of July until the start of October.
--
/* 'Grave' Dave Gymer --------- Internet: dpg@Cs.Nott.AC.UK *\
+* 42 St Marys Park, Louth, Lincolnshire, LN11 0EF, England *+
+* Olivier's Law: "Experience is something you don't get *+
\*-------------------------- until just after you need it." */
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 91 06:54:13 GMT
From: noao!ncar!csn!boulder!tcr!gbs!root@arizona.edu (Root)
Subject: path to Gadgets
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The path taken by this message is the path "back" to us here at
Gadgets. Our machine name is "gbs" as a 7-character name ("gadgets")
was causing some problems along the line. I'm "dsmall" here, or
"root". The machine is an AT&T 3B1 (7300).
The newsfeeds seem to be operating fairly stabley (is that a word?)
now.
Anyway, since I can't get to the Well machine as often as I'd like,
and this machine is much closer (10 feet vs. 2000 miles), I thought
I would mention it. I'm open for GCR, SST, MegaTalk, and automatic
weapon discussions (*grin*).
-- thanks, Dave Small
Gadgets by Small / bottlewasher
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 17:59:18 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!cs.umn.edu!thelake!steve@a
rizona.edu (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: path to Gadgets
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
[In article <165@gbs.UUCP>,
root@gbs.UUCP (Root) (really Dave Small) writes ... ]
> The path taken by this message is the path "back" to us here at
> Gadgets.
Just one quick word of advice before you use the Path: line, though.
Put your noggin into action and determine the *closest* site to gbs
that your system knows how to reach. Send mail there. Reasons:
-- Usenet news paths are rarely the quickest routes.
-- Not all systems named in Usenet paths handle mail. (Really!) Using
the Path: line without careful thought is a good way to lose mail.
-- Sending email through systems you don't own is a privilege, and it's
your responsibility to ensure that you don't impose on any more sites
than is necessary. Be a good guest.
>From the 12-hop Path: line on the article I received, I would guess that
ncar.ucar.edu!boulder!tcr!gbs!root might be a working UUCP path, but
there probably is a faster one (anybody know the Internet equivalent of
boulder?)
----
Steve Yelvington, Marine on St. Croix, Minnesota, USA / steve@thelake.mn.org
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 08:31:58 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Re: Man w/ pipe
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well this Bob Dobbs character (actually 4) is just another example of Atari
wastage, along with Bea Hablig et al. I think I would have preferred to see
four box corner characters, ala IBM, so that we could make up boxes in text.
Now some bright spark is going to say "Why not change the font youself".
Why should I have to support 3 resolution (6 if you include the TT) to get
such a simple addition. Atari should have put something *useful* in there in
the first place.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 characters!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 10:20:15 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!keele!nott-cs!lut.ac.uk!elmar@uunet.uu.net (Mohammad A. Rahin)
Subject: Reading TOS/DOS diskette on the SparcStation
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Following my earlier query on this subject, I had quite a few responses. Thanks
very much to all who responded. For those who might need the summary here it is.
Mtools is a suite of package on the SparcStation that allows reading/writing
TOS/DOS formatted 3.5" diskettes. The complete package along with the patch
files can be obtained from the following anonymous FTP sites :
1. cs.uni-sb.de (134.96.7.254) - directory : pub/sun/mtools
2. cs.uba.ca (137.82.8.5) - directory : src
3. cerl.cecer.army.mil (129.229.1.101) - pub/mtools
Finally, thanks again to those who responded. I really appreciate your help.
- Rahin
------------------------------
Date: 8 Jun 91 07:07:31 GMT
From: noao!ncar!csn!boulder!tcr!gbs!root@arizona.edu (Root)
Subject: System 7 on the GCR (from dsmall)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
We've tested (and tested, and tested) the final release Sys 7
on the GCR, and nope, it doesn't work yet. I wouldn't sweat
this one too hard; I can recall both systems 6.0.3 and 6.0.5
needing a helping crutch to get them going, too. The problem
*seems* straightforward and we're working on it, but you never
know if you've got ALL the problems fixed until it runs.
I certainly found the following code fragment creative:
move.l (a7)+,$fffffffe
Near as I can tell, someone wanted the low word off the
current stack long into locations 0 and 1.
nice.
(And yes, I know how many things that breaks...)
Anywho. Back to the salt mines, and I'll let you know when
we have it functioning.
Incidentally, we're seeing reports of some TT's not running
with GCR. Move the GCR to another TT, it runs. One known problem is
putting a monitor on top of the TT; the monitor generates enough interference
in the internal floppy to damp out the disk signal. Solution: move
monitor backwards. Another problem we are hearing reports of, but have
not gotten into the lab yet, is GCR's having cartridge port troubles.
We have no idea what that is (low +5 at cart? Timing changes? You got me...)
but are trying to find a non-working GCR/TT to look at and find out.
If you're curious, the plan at the moment is to add LAN and
internal SCSI drive support to the TT; hopefully this will superset to
generic SCSI support for the TT, so about any Mac SCSI peripheral will
plug in (if you follow the termination rules -- I wonder what Atari did.
Good question, that -- you know, Allan?) However, SST is getting
priority at the moment. We also hope to support LAN (Appletalk/Localtalk,(tm))
on the MegaSTE.
MegaTalk had a production run of PC boards without plated feedthrus.
100% rejects. That slowed things down. SST h/w is done and we're in the
thousand-and-one details of ramping up production; I'm wrapping up some
interesting compatibility software for it, so lots of things that normally
break on 68030's will work.
Anywho, back to the salt mines. (And I hope this post makes it
out; getting this link working through two quirky machines is... interesting.)
-- thanks, Dave Small
Diaper-Changer, Gadgets by Small
"I haven't thought up a witty saying yet."
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 14:57:19 GMT
From:
bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!ugle.unit.no!lise.unit.no!stigvi@ucbvax.berkeley
.edu (Stig Vidar Hovland)
Subject: TT ram revisited
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
|> From article <meulenbr.676276267@cstw163>, by meulenbr@cst.prl.philips.nl
(Frans Meulenbroeks):
|>
|> > Also I found out that the TT ram is 100ns ram. I do not have any 68030
|> > doc handy, but with a 32 Mhz clock, I think at least one (and very maybe 2)
|> > wait states will be required to access this memory.
|> > Would it be technically feasible to replace this memory with faster
|> > memory, and get rid of this wait state? Will 80 ns be enough to get rid
|> > of the wait state, or should 60 ns be used??
|>
If the cpu need to read data, it is done in burst modus. This means that the cpu
reads the first long word in two cycles and the next three long words in three
cycles. You will only speed up writing to memory if you replace the memory card
with a faster one. There are some third party ram cards which are faster than
Ataris, but I don't know nothing about these cards.
Stig Vidar Hovland - stigvi@lise.unit.no
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jun 91 12:43:27 GMT
From: noao!ncar!gatech!prism!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!nu!boyd@arizona.edu (Mickey Boyd)
Subject: X for the ST? (Unix Windows)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <2392@netmbx.UUCP>, perstoro@netmbx.UUCP (Wilhelm Schaefer) writes:
>limsico@earthquake.Berkeley.EDU (Carl Limsico) writes:
>
>
>> This question has probably already been asked several times, but
>>here it goes: Does anyone know of any type of X-Window
>>emulation/server/host for the ST? Please either e-mail or post
>>replies!
>
>On the other hand there is a programm called UW (unix windows).
>I think it was designed for the mac first, but it has been
>ported to the st by someone.
>
Unix Windows is not related to X in any way (other than coincidental
appearance). It is a great program, which allows one to have muliplexed
terminals over one serial line (the terminals are in the form of windows).
You can set font sizes, cut and paste, file transfer, etc. It consists of
an ST end and a Unix end (which must be compiled for your particular system).
I have found that it works great, but is a bit pokey at 2400 (I am waiting
for my 9600, zooom). Basically, it acts as a regular terminal program
(you dial up, get one terminal window). At that point, you run the unix
end (from the initial terminal window). After a few magical packets get
transfered back and forth, you can now open more windows, each served
by their own login shell. There are at least two versions of the UW package
for the ST (I have two). One is more fancy, but less tolerant of accs and
tsrs (the port appears european in origin). The other (this one is on
atari.archive) has fewer bells and whistles, but is solid (on my system
at least).
As for an X server on the ST line, I don't envision it happening any time
soon. With Ethernet cards so scarce, and 9600 baud modems still in the
$500 range there is not a very high demand for one. Don't get me wrong, I
would love to have one (and if you find out about one, I will be happy to
eat my words). You could probably direct-connect the serial port and run
it at 19.2 using a SLIP connection.
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear
FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down
Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ."
email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu |
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
