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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 353
Info-Atari16 Digest Tue, 25 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 353
Today's Topics:
.MOD files, DC Software, and the Amiga war.
Another Atari write-in campaign...
Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source! (4 msgs)
Beginner's Guide to setting up GCC.
Hard Disks
lharc woes
lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is musedt.lzh corrupted?)
monitor woes
Please, no Amiga "discussions" here
Problems with Ghostscript
ST and Multisync
Thomas Quester, where are you?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 19:40:37 CDT
From: Mike Dorman <MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject: .MOD files, DC Software, and the Amiga war.
To: Atari List <Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
>loaded from a floppy drive, and doesn't allow the hard drive boot
>program to load. (It is a boot disk) The Digi-Composer gave a little
Have you tried Double-CLick's DCBOOTIT? It says that it'll (usually)
fool a boot disk into thinking that it's been auto booted--which sounds
like that's just what you need.
BTW, I'll throw my vote with ++jrb--I'd like to see some source, too.
Some of the programs have had potential to make my life easier, but
just won't *quite* integrate smoothly with my setup.
If you can't/won't do this (which I would sort of understand, I'd just
be mildly disappointed) I hereby request a revision of the program
that allows you to turn floppies on/off and set their step rates--I'd
love an auto program which would read a configuration and set it (like
to automatically set my 5.25" B drive for 6ms) seamlessly, with no
intervention--or at least a version that I could set as my GEM auto
boot prg, and not notice when it executes, sets the stuff, and then
exits. I don't want to have to do this stuff manually. (I know, I know,
it's a simple prog to write, but I'm too lazy :~)
Oh, yeah, stop the amiga flame war: specifically to Tom Hill--you have
released your information, please let people come to you, because as
long as you continue to post, people willcontinue to flame, and that's
too much to wade through at 1200 baud. I, too like the amiga, mostly,
though there'r some things about the OS that bother me--but I'll seek
you out if I decide to switch. In the meantime, please wait somewhere
else--your unfortuate remarks are making it hard for me to get any
info for the ST I have *now*.
THanks, all. :~)
Mike
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Michael Alan Dorman : :
: MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU : Hobbies are things people do when they should be :
: BIX: syssupport : sleeping. --M.A.D. :
: GEnie: M.DORMAN2 : :
: PostalNet: : :
: Box 8068 : Stonehenge was built by two drunks with no :
: Tuscaloosa, AL : witnesses. --P.S.McGhee :
: 35486 : :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 12:57:56 GMT
From:
pa.dec.com!nntpd.lkg.dec.com!ryn.mro4.dec.com!aqua.enet.dec.com!rost@decwrl.dec
.com (My name is Brian Rost)
Subject: Another Atari write-in campaign...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <91175.115025ONM07@DMSWWU1A.BITNET>, ONM07@DMSWWU1A.BITNET writes...
>Please don't blame the `germans'. WP is mainly an american company, and
>if they can't succeed in the U.S., they won't in Germany either.
>
>BTW: I would *love* to see a new WP on GEM!
>___________________________ cut here _____________________________________
>Julian F. Reschke, Hensenstr. 142, D-4400 Muenster, Phone: ++49 251 861241
>fast eMail: ONM07@DMSWWU1A.BITNET, slow: jr@ms.maus.de (++49 251 77216)
>____________________ correct me if I'm wrong _____________________________
Julian,
WordPerfect is doing fine in the US, just not on ST platforms! It's a real hot
seller in V5.0 for the IBM. I guess the developers don't see enough $$$ in
doing an ST version, and that's that.
If this keeps up, pretty soon, I'm going to have to write all my own
application software 8;(
Brian Rost @rgb.dec.com
508-568-6115
****************************************************
* *
* The above does not reflect the opinions of *
* my employer. *
* *
* If music is outlawed, only outlaws will be *
* musicians. *
* *
****************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:54:18 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!mantis!mwowm!mathew@uunet.uu.net (Million Headed
Monster)
Subject: Atari-to-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
What's an Amiga?
mathew
--
<< baby mother hospital scissors creature judgement butcher engineer >>
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 21:06:55 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!sol.ctr.columbia.edu!cunixf.cc.col
umbia.edu!cunixb.cc.columbia.edu!es1@arizona.edu (Ethan Solomita)
Subject: Atari-To-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun25.173313.27320@colorado.edu> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU
JEFFREY) writes:
>In article <1991Jun24.222634.30979@cunixf.cc.columbia.edu>
es1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu (Ethan Solomita) writes:
>> The first point you make isn't a computer war, but a chip
>>war. The 040 is faster than the 486 at the same clock speed,
>
>I am trying to avoid any kind of war, this comp.sys.atari.st news is
>not for these types of postings. SOOOO after this posting please
>send all responses to the posting to me and not post it here.
>
I think that a discussion of chip technology is wholly
relevant to this newsgroup, as long as Motorola 680x0 chips are a
main part of the discussion. I shouldn't use the term war, I
consider this to be a "discussion".
>>(except under MS-DOS), but it is still close. The 040 25MHz does
>>appr. 18-22 MIPS depending on who you believe (I know how
>>meaningless that is, but we are talking all CISC chips, not RISC,
>>so isn't a terrible statistic). I believe the 486 is about 12.
>
>MFLOPS is a better measure than MIPS, the 68040 25 does about 3.5 MFLOPS,
>the i486-25 with Weitek 4167 does 10+ MFLOPS and the ranges of MIPS for
>the 486-25 is from 11 to 15 MIPS.
>
I don't have MFLOPS statistics myself, so I'll take your
for truth. You mention a Weitek math coprocessor, which is not
made by Intel. That is something separate which is an additional
cost beyond the 486. Also, MFLOPS stands for "millions of
floating point operations per second". That is very important for
some programs (such as ray-tracers), but less relevant for other
programs, such as DTP. That's why benchmarks stink. For a DTP
application, MIPS is more important, although I'd prefer to hear
some Dhrystones and SpecMarks numbers as well.
-- Ethan
FF buckets of bits on the bus, FF buckets of bits.
Take one down, Pass it to ground,
FE buckets of bits on the bus.
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 22:52:19 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!menudo.uh.edu!rc
te2p@arizona.edu (Paul Stephen Sears)
Subject: Atari-To-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
peter@Sugar.NeoSoft.com (Peter da Silva) presents in article
<1991Jun24.110408.29984@Sugar.NeoSoft.com>
>In article <SCOTT.91Jun23172143@breeze.cs.odu.edu> scott@cs.odu.edu (Scott D.
Yelich) writes:
[misc stuff deleted]
>
>Amiga. I pushed the machine before I ever got one. I put off buying a
>personal computer for 6 years waiting for something like the Amiga to
>come out. There is still, 6 years later, *NO* other personal computer
>with an operating system that satisfies my *minimum* functionality
>requirements, unless you go out and buy a UNIX box.
Isn't that great? A unix box that costs less that an Amiga 3000 and it
even has ethernet built in.... Maybe you should have waited longer than
6 years to make your decision...
>
>And at that it's one of the cheapest machines out there.
>
>> MY atari does what I need it to do.
>
>You're satisfied, but have you used a real computer?
Yep... Every day... I use computers that have more raw processing power
than 100 Amigas running in parallel processing...
>
>I've been there. I borrowed an IBM clone for a while, then an Atari ST. It's
>called shopping around. The productivity improvement from reliable, efficient,
>and responsive multitasking is amazing.
Sounds like you didn't look around too much. You can get a used Sun 3
with 4 Meg ram for under $1000...
>
>There really is a basic, fundamental difference between the Amiga and the rest.
>Your arguments make good sense when comparing Ataris and Mac and IBMs, but
>there *is* something better.
Of course there is. Buy a NeXT. I can get a NeXT with a 100M HD, 2.88M
floopy, a MUCH better user interface, built in sound digitizer, *nix OS (MACH)
plus many other ammenities for less than a Amiga 3000.... So
please, don't cop the attitude that Amiga is the best buy for the money.
Wake up... Steve Jobbs strikes again... (and I could add 32bit color
for $1500 more) And, the NeXT has a 68040, display postscipt and a
400dpi laser printer... (I have an Atari 520 and I would still buy one
today... of course, I would get my NeXT too...)
>
>And *you* don't have to wait 6 years to find it, like I did.
>--
>Peter da Silva. `-_-' <peter@sugar.neosoft.com>.
> 'U` "Have you hugged your wolf today?"
P.S: Here at UH, the monochrome NeXT is $3K with student discount...
* Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power
* The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that
* RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him."
* RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
--
* Paul Sears * Technology *** |"The greater an individual's power
* The University of Houston *** | over others, the greater the evil that
* RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu * * * | might possibly originate with him."
* RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jun 91 00:09:56 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!samsung!know!dae
mon@arizona.edu (Thomas Hill)
Subject: Atari-To-Amiga Convert Info Source!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I can't really debate the reasoning behind now moving this discussion to
the comp.sys.amiga.advocacy SIG. The original message has grown into something
that wasn't really it's original intent. I have been able to help close to
twenty Atari users so far, so the message has served it's purpose. I read and
listened to those Email replies whichdiscussed this in a civil manner (Most
of the hostile messages were deleted before I finished reading them). For this
reason I'll ask everybody who expects a reply to leave your message in the
comp.sys.amiga.advocacy SIG. One final note: Please re-read the original
message with an open mind and see what I mean about "growing into something".
Tom
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Jun 91 19:04:20 CDT
From: Mike Dorman <MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU>
Subject: Beginner's Guide to setting up GCC.
To: Atari List <Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
>I want to install the gcc, g++ binaries on my atari but I am a bit
>confused what programs I need. When I look at the gnustuff at a.a
>I will find archives with names in it that cannot be used in a Atari
>with TOS file system (to long, to many points in it)
>
>So could anyone tell me how to setup my system so I can use the gnustuff
>and what files to download from a.a?
>I have a 1040STf with TOS 1.0, 1 Mb and enough diskspace or
>a Mega 4 with TOS 1.4 and enough diskspace
>
>I do not want to have the sources just the binaries
>
>
>Harold van Aalderen (hvaalde@cs.vu.nl)
How to set up GCC--a simple tutorial:
1) You need to get the appropriate packages from a.a.u.e. Right now, I
am not sure just where these are-I've been using a port of GCC 1.39
from John R. Dunning, and it works well. You probably need to (if I
remember right (I've looked at all the files, and Think I remeber what's
in them)) get gasbin01.zoo (the assembler), gccbin01.zoo, (the driver,
the compiler, the preprocessor), and the utlbin20.zoo (the utilities, of
which, the most important are the linker and the librarian). If you want
the source debugger, you should get gdbbin01.zoo (the dbgger). Then you
need to get libolb68.zoo, and if you want gem, gembin17.zoo. Then you
need to get the include files, includ68.zoo. I think this is all--it's
close. Note: I have not used these files, but I think I trust Graham
Higgins, and they should work.
2) Move them to your Atari. This will probably take several floppys,
or several hours of downloads.
3) Get yourself several MB free--I would recommend the 4MB machine--
you won't be able to compile big programs in 1MB--GCC *loves* memory--
and unarc the files (or unzoo, as the case may be). I recommend you put
all the binaries in a directory bin all the libraries and object files
in a directory lib(that's all the .olb and .o files), and all the
includes in inc
4) You need to set the env vars GCCEXEC ("g:incc-" <-notice the gcc-
prefix, it's important), GCC_EXEC_PREFIX (same as GCCEXEC), GNULIB (the
obvious, w/no backslash) and GNUINC (same as GNULIB). Then you need to
set TEMP. This must have NO BACKSLASH. I assume you're using a shell,
too.
5) Write you a program, and call gcc with:
gcc -v -o wombat.ttp wombat.c
-v means verbose. -O means optimize. -c means don't link. Check the
manual for others.
Enough for now, my fingers hurt. Be sure to post any questions.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
: Michael Alan Dorman : :
: MDORMAN1@UA1VM.UA.EDU : Hobbies are things people do when they should be :
: BIX: syssupport : sleeping. --M.A.D. :
: GEnie: M.DORMAN2 : :
: PostalNet: : :
: Box 8068 : Stonehenge was built by two drunks with no :
: Tuscaloosa, AL : witnesses. --P.S.McGhee :
: 35486 : :
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jun 91 00:03:48 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ccut!wnoc-tyo-news!
toumon!wucc!ytsuji@arizona.edu (Y.Tsuji)
Subject: Hard Disks
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun25.153957.25883@sae.com>, malay@sae.com (Bob Malay) writes:
------
A while ago I posted a plea for information concerning hard disk drives. I am
in the market for one and I'm interested in what is being used out there.
Whats good, bad? Why?
For example, is the Supra any good? Is it slow/fast/noisy?
Forget about that Amiga crap - I need some honest help here!
Bob Malay
------
Frankly, I recommend everyone to buy ICD stuff, be it internal or external.
The problem of hard drives is much of a software nature and I think most
people agree that ICD's are the best. And then you can buy any of the
SCSI drives in the market. Mine is Conner Peripherals' SCSI drive housed
by a Japanese case and power supply, etc. and it is quieter than my MEGA ST.
The speed? It is rather slow but 570 KB per second, which isn't too bad (
I understand 500+ KB per second things are generally regarded as fast).
Cheers,
Tsuji
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 20:34:05 GMT
From: convex!rosenkra@uunet.uu.net (William Rosencranz)
Subject: lharc woes
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <A0b7du58@nathan.ruhr.de> ue@nathan.ruhr.de writes:
>Hi,
>what about giving STZip a try? Ok, it's still called a beta version, but
>it works, its faster than LHarc, and the compression rate is alomost the
>same as LHarc's...
>The actual version is 0.9beta...
ONLY, repeat ONLY iff 1) there is full source for ST, Unix, VMS, and
whatever, 2) ONLY (again) if there is only ONE, repeat, ONE version,
fully controlled by ONE group (not 10+ like lharc), 3) ONLY if it is
so much better than zoo (2.01 or 2.10 or the new, soon to be released
version) that it is much faster (both compression and decompression),
much easier to use (command line interface, arguably zoo's single
weakness, with hooks to add it to arcgsh et al for those prefering
GEM), much better compression, much more feature laden, but not so
much as to get in the way, etc.
please do NOT start posting archives in this format. i would propose
a vote (here?), preceded by extensive testing (on ALL platforms) before
this happens. and i am reluctant to use anything labeled "beta" for
archival. beta s/w should be used by beta testers, NOT the entire
community.
[ note that my initial reaction, of course, was "SHEESH! ANOTHER
ARCHIVER FORMAT TO DEAL WITH" but i calmed down... :-) ]
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!c1yankee!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra%c1yankee@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 20:43:40 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu
(William Rosencranz)
Subject: lharc woes (AGAIN, was Is musedt.lzh corrupted?)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <fido_2:320/100_2863aa8b@linn.fidonet.org>
Vincent.Pomey@linn.fidonet.org (Vincent Pomey) writes:
>You could try using STZip, it process zip files (compatible with PKZip on PC),
>is faster than LHArc 1.13.19, compress roughly the same (better on big text
>files, worse on very small files), and has a built-in GEM interface.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
why? does this mean it won't port to unix et al? if so, i recommend against
it...
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
(defender of portability :-)
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!c1yankee!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra%c1yankee@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jun 91 04:10:40 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.ed
u!rjast1@arizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: monitor woes
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
was bright (florescent) orange instead of the white it should have
been. To put it simply, the screen is royally screwd up (sorry for
typos, using an Atari 8<bit term program I haven't touched for awhile -
nice to have a computer backup). Anyways, can someone tell me why
this has happened, and maybe a simple solution if there is one
(or else it's off to the TV repairman I guess - $$$)...
Robert Anisko
rjast1@unix.cis.pitt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 25 JUN 91 23:00:57 CDT
From: Z4610891 <Z4610891%SFAUSTIN.bitnet@RICEVM1.RICE.EDU>
Subject: Please, no Amiga "discussions" here
To: <INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
I'd also like to go on record to request that no Amiga evangelism
occur here. This service is not free for me and I'm not receiving any
so-called enlightenment from these debates. Fellow STers, just don't
respond to this idiot's "service" to our community.
If he continues flooding my account with Amiga junk mail, I'm going
to forward the messages to not only his account but also the Amiga
address.
It is so amazing to me that we STers need such help. Apparently the
Amiga is so doggedly difficult to learn that the machine is
incapable of being learned by such illiterate novices as STers.
If anything, this Amiga evangelist has totally driven me away from
the Amiga.
Anthony F Gaudiano <Z4610891@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jun 91 03:35:01 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.w
isc.edu!caen!umich!wsu-cs!jake!pbh@arizona.edu (Patrick Haggood)
Subject: Problems with Ghostscript
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I just downloaded ghostscript the other day and have loaded it into
my E: drive under \ghostscr.ipt directory. In my cli (MT-C shell) I've
set GS_LIB to both e:/ghostscr.ipt and e:\ghostscr.ipt in the profile.
I try to print one of the example files as 'gs chess.ps' and get:
reading ghost.ps (Printing in memory, please ..etc)
ghost.ps read
Cant find Fontmap!
(copyleft info)
GS<4> (and a prompt)
What am I doing wrong? What's this fontmap it's looking for?
--
Patrick B. Haggood
Wayne STate University
Detroit, MI
Physics - Class of 1991 (-2?)
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 23:10:03 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!vsnyder@arizona.edu (Van Snyder)
Subject: ST and Multisync
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <CMM.0.90.2.677508705.larserio@kvart.ifi.uio.no> larserio@ifi.uio.no
writes:
>Multisync monitor switchbox and cabel (this is tested and works)
>""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""
>If you want monochrome your monitor must handle 71 Hz frequency
>NOT all monitors do this - To be sure - Test before you buy it!
>
>
> Multisync side (no pin number - they depend on your monitor outlet)
>
> Red Green Blue HorSync VertSync Ground
> | | | | | |
> | | | | | |
> SW1---SW2---SW3-------. | | |---SW4---.
> | | | | | | | |
> | | | | | | | |
> Red Green Blue Monochrome HorSync VertSync Ground MonoDetect
> 7 6 10 11 9 12 13 4
I did this with a NEC-2D and the monochrome image came out about 1/3 of
a screen high.
>Don't worry, the worst bit isn't making this - it's getting the
>13-pin Atari monitor connector for the ST side and solder it !!
I simply cut my Atari cable and soldered in a pair of DB-15's. They're
really easy to find. When I got tired of switching monitors by changing
DB-15 plugs, I built a switch using a 7-pole rotary, and some MORE DB-15's.
The one I found in a surplus store for $US 3.95 had 5 positions, but I only
used two.
> Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________
> Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST
>__________/ ______________________/ ____/ / Klubben, user association
--
vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder
vsnyder@jato.uucp
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 19:41:35 GMT
From:
math.fu-berlin.de!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!csbrod@uunet.uu.net
(Claus Brod)
Subject: Thomas Quester, where are you?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
es2a+@andrew.cmu.edu (Eric Stuyvesant) writes:
> I'm looking for a valid e-mail address for/to Herr Quester to send
>him a bug report. The ones included in the documentation to lzh11321
>don't seem to work. Can anyone provide any suggestions? Sorry for the
>waste of bandwidth.
Try
Thomas_Quester@hh.maus.de
and lemme know if this works 8-)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Claus Brod, Am Felsenkeller 2, Things. Take. Time.
D-8772 Marktheidenfeld, Germany (Piet Hein)
csbrod@medusa.informatik.uni-erlangen.de
Claus_Brod@wue.maus.de
----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jun 91 01:25:40 GMT
From: unisoft!bdt!bbs@uunet.uu.net
Subject: Whoops!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello...
I was reading through some of the messages here and saw a phone number
for the U.K. (44-344-485971) Thinking there was a modem at the other I
called
with my modem and got a person instead of a squeal. I wasn't able to
apologize in voice so I hope you accept my apologies here in print for the
disturbance.
Regards,
Jonnie Santos
San Diego, California
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
