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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 335
Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 15 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 335
Today's Topics:
Atari ST hard drive wanted
Erie PA show cancelled
GCC 1.40
How many MBytes would _you_ recommend?
Lattice C
man w/ pipe
Mega Mega?
Mint ?
Story of the demo folks
TCB soundtracker / ST User??
Vortex Hard Disk Drive question
Weekly Posting of New Stuff
Z-RAM made my drive go nuts! WHY!!?? UPDATE.
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 00:06:07 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Azog-Thot
h@arizona.edu (William Thomas Daugustine)
Subject: Atari ST hard drive wanted
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well, the title says it all. Im looking for a hard drive for my 520ST.
Working with just two 720k diskette drives dont cut it :-)
Im open for trades, I have a lot of neato and unique stuff. Or an out
right cash buy...
Thanx
Billy D'Augustine
Azog-Thoth@cup.portal.com
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 16:33:40 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!mintaka!spdcc!dirtydog
.ima.isc.com!ispd-newsserver!kodak!cygnus!nelson@arizona.edu (Bruce D. Nelson)
Subject: Erie PA show cancelled
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The Spectrum Group of Erie just informed me that their Atari show
scheduled for June 29-30 in Erie, PA has been cancelled due to lack
of interest on the part of vendors, developers, and Atari.
--
Bruce Nelson | Phone: (716) 726-7890
Rochester Distributed Computer Services | Internet: nelson@kodak.com
Eastman Kodak Company |
Rochester, NY 14653-5221 |
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 12:13:51 GMT
From: otter.hpl.hp.com!hpltoad!polly!gjh@hplabs.hp.com (Graham Higgins)
Subject: GCC 1.40
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
++ I noticed the sources and diffs for the ST version of GCC1.40 in the
++ new gnustuff directory at A.A. (Thanks to Graham for the neat re-org!!)
Hold hard there boyah! Not finished yet. The sources currently available on
A.A. are only positioned for testing, not yet testED. Testing will require
compilation. The only thing I've managed to compile so far are the main GNU
libraries gnulib16/32 and iio16/32 and their gdb versions.
++ Before I go to the trouble to try and compile it, has someone else already
++ got the ST version of GCC1.40 compiled up, and could they please post it
++ to A.A??
I will post a set of 1.40 binaries which I got from a UK BBS. No, I haven't
been able to cross-compile 1.40 yet, so I can't vouch for these binaries,
except to say that I used them to compile the library sources on my ST.
Cheers,
Graham
======
------------------------------------------------------------------
Graham Higgins | gjh%ghiggins@hpl.hp.co.uk
Hewlett-Packard Labs | gjh%ghiggins@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Filton Road, Stoke Gifford | gjh%hplb.csnet@csnet-relay.arpa
Bristol, U.K. | ...!mcvax!ukc!hplb!gjh
Tel: +44 272 799910 x24014 Fax: +44 272 790554
------------------------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: My opinions above are exactly that, mine and opinions.
------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 21:42:00 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!tmpmbx!lime.in-berlin.de!techno@uunet.uu.net (Techno)
Subject: How many MBytes would _you_ recommend?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
There's no ersatz for memory except more memory.
Techno
--
| techno@zelator.in-berlin.de ||| Please do not e-mail from outside Germany ! |
| techno@lime.in-berlin.de / | \ Hardcore ST user ! ====================== |
| Nothing that's real is ever for free, you just have to pay for it sometime. |
| (Al Stewart) |
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 91 22:46:55 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!mips!atha!lsuc!jimomura@arizona.edu (Jim
Omura)
Subject: Lattice C
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun13.024614.7493@garfield.cs.mun.ca> david10@garfield.cs.mun.ca
(David Churchill) writes:
>I just purchased a copy of Lattice C (v. 3.03.02 (c) 1986 . . . hey, for $20
>CAN used, I can't complain :-)), and I have a few questions (my apologies if
>all of these questions were answered recently on the net) :
>
>1) What are the major differences (improvements) to the compiler in its latest
>version (v. 5.01?)?
Well, first, you don't even have the "latest" revision of version
3. In my version 5.06.01 manual it refers to conversion of programs
from version 3.04. So it would seem that they had at least 1 more
major revision even within the 3.nn series since yours was last
upgraded.
Now as for version 5.nn, well the biggest reasons to upgrade are:
1. Support for ANSI code. The documentation is a tad unclear
whether it support 100% of ANSI or just "almost", but it looks
complete to me. Unfortunately this has made it somewhat difficult
for me to decide what state I'm going to leave some of my
source code since I use a few "old K&R C" compilers such as
"Small-C" for CP/M work and Microware 6809 C for OS-9 work
and Sozobon C. I think I'll convert the most Atari specific
commercial code I'm doing to Lattice/ANSI C and leave the
rest mainly in "old C". But if you plan on a carreer as a
programmer, I suggest that you have complete ANSI C compatibility
as soon as possible.
2. Support for newer POSIX calls. This is an independent matter
from ANSI C, but it's the same reasoning. It's "the future"
and if you're going that way, you want the upgrade.
3. Better support of TOS/GEM. This I'll have to guess a bit
at. Some of the stuff looks the same to me as the stuff covered
in the Abacus books. Other things look different and possibly
new. I think the VDI has been extended a bit in TOS 1.4.
Certainly the STE specific calls like the support for the
sound output daemon are new.
Beyond that I'll have to speculate that there are probably
fewer bugs than what you have and I expect a bunch of new compiler
options. I don't know if your compiler creates code other than
68000 specific code. This compiler has switches for '020 and '030
as well as support for 68881 and 68882 math co-processors. They
also claim a better set of libraries generally due to re-coding
in assembly language, so most programs should turn out smaller and
faster than before.
>2) Is Metacomo still in business? If not, who is carrying the line?
I've been in contact with Goldleaf in the US (415) 257-3510.
In fact, I'm supposed to call them back Monday to discuss upgrading
my 5.06.01 to 5.06.02. They haven't received the upgrade packages
from HiSoft. It may be relevant that HiSoft in England seems to
be in control of the situation overall now. I don't know if
Metacomo still exists, but it probably isn't relevant. You'd
better call Goldleaf though and see what arrangements you can amke
for upgrades. You may have a problem. I called Goldleaf *before*
I bought my Lattice just to make sure there wouldn't be a problem.
But I'm at least starting with a HiSoft release.
>3) Is an upgrade path available, and is it worth it? (at the moment, I'm just
>writing small, uncomplicated programs for use on a UNIX platform. Since I can't
>always get through to the system via modem, why not use the ST?)
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 07:21:40 GMT
From: hpcc05!hpdmd48!ritchie@hplabs.hp.com (David Ritchie)
Subject: man w/ pipe
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>In article <3188@odin.cs.hw.ac.uk>, neil@cs.hw.ac.uk (Neil Forsyth) writes:
>> Well this Bob Dobbs character (actually 4) is just another example of Atari
>> wastage ... Atari should have put something *useful* in there in
>> the first place.
>
>Darnded right! Atari really screwed up. Why didn't they use the IBM character
>set like a REAL computer would? Come to think of it, why isn't the Atari ST
>an IBM compatible computer? Gosh, it makes me so mad to think of the large
>number of *useful* things that could have been done with the ST if only it'd
>been an IBM compatible.
The real question is why IBM doesn't have Bob in its character set.
Things are getting prettty pink around here, IMHO.
-- Dave Ritchie
ritchie@hpdmd48.boi.hp.com
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 03:48:46 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sdd.hp.com!think.com!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bloom-pica
yune.mit.edu!bloom-beacon!eru!hagbard!sunic!isgate!krafla!adamd@arizona.edu
(Adam David)
Subject: Mega Mega?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <1991Jun13.120105.18786@informatik.uni-erlangen.de>
csbrod@immd4.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Claus Brod) writes:
>There is a commercial solution distributed by Richter Computer in
>Germany. With their expansion cards, you can pump up memory volume to
>12 MB.
Does anyone know how well this handles DMA and video? I'm not prepared to buy
one just to find out.
How many other commercial / DIY homebrew memory expansion systems are there?
Gadgets seem to have a clear value-for-money winner. Keep it up Dave & friends!
--
Adam David.
(adamd@rhi.hi.is)
------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 91 06:41:54 GMT
From: esseye!jdbbs!wybbs!therip!FredMail@uunet.uu.net (Rod Fulk)
Subject: Mint ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have Mint and Manager available on my bbs...
HSt Freq able..
1:228/24.0
I downloaded them from GEnie and havent looked at the stuff yet..
Not sure of their names..
Otherwise call and leave me mail and I will upgrade your access real quick
like.
(You can download ONE program on your first call..
Manager is like a 500k file or so though...)
* Origin: The R.I.P. (616)235-2313 [HST] (1:228/24)
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 16:31:59 GMT
From: europa.asd.contel.com!gatech!prism!mailer.cc.fsu.edu!nu!boyd@uunet.uu.net
(Mickey Boyd)
Subject: Story of the demo folks
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <2865725@MVB.SAIC.COM>, steveg@cseic.saic.com (Stephen Harold
Goldstein) writes:
>
>Now can anyone tell me just who these guys are that wrote things like
>the WHATTHEHECK and Life's a bitch demos? The demos are pretty neat
>but I'm concerned about references to 'ripping' sounds from commercial
>games and 'copy parties' in their 'scroll texts'. Are these demos nothing
>more than cut and paste jobs of stolen code and artwork?
Well, most of these guys are/were pirates, more specifically crackers. A
cracker is one who removes copy protection from a piece of software, so it
can be more easily distributed via BBS's. After the program is "cracked",
these folks sometimes put a little graphic demo at the beginning, stating
which "cracking group" did the work, and perhaps a scrolling message (usually
containing hellos to other cracking groups). All the "scroller" type demos
originated from this. As they got more and more complex (remember that they
had to be able to coexist with another program, so they are generally small),
and as competition increased they got more and more impressive (in terms of
graphics/sound). Some common techniques were to "rip" sounds from games or
other demos, and sometimes graphics backgrounds or sprites. At some point,
a cracking group organized and produced a full disk of these demoes (I believe
the first was the Union demo, still one of the best). Many others followed,
including the ones you have mentioned. They usually consist of offerings from
many "groups", collected together under some sort of common menu program. The
theft of music/graphics from copyrighted stuff is going down, although using
stuff found in other demos is still common (it is usually of better quality).
Now, interestingly enough, many "cracking" groups have become "demo" groups.
They have given up cracking and pirating in favor of writing demos. One
reason for this might be increased legal awareness developing in europe of
software pirating. For whatever reason, some of these folks are now being
employed to write games and sound/graphic tools (for example, the TCB
Soundtracker, named best music program in europe, was written by The Care
Bears, a former cracking group). Also, some "demo" groups have formed that
have no history of pirating. At most european computer shows, there is a
"latest and greatest" demo competition, with software companies looking on.
There are also some other interesting categories, like "best demo written
in 24 hours". I have been seeing less "scroller only" type entries, and
more snazzy stuff, like real time 3D (although just about all the demoes have
some sort of scrolling message).
Please note that most of these folks are REALLY young (like 14, for chrissake!).
Kind of humbling, huh? Anyway, almost all coding is done exclusively in
assembly (I have seen reference to the TURBOASS assembler, which has been
discussed recently here on c.s.a.st). Thus, I would say that these demos
are much more than just "cut-and-paste" jobs, but they do have a definite
ancestory to software cracking. With the advent of "demo only" type groups,
offers to share source code and have "demo parties" are becoming more common.
One groups usually hosts a party, inviting members from other groups. Zillions
of Cokes and Doritos later, a new demo disk emerges. At some point in the
future, I am going to try to attend one (and pretend I broke my two typing
fingers in a bench vise :-). I am very curious as to just how they do all
that stuff, and I hope to come back with some disks of source.
As someone pointed out on the net, most of these demos work at a very low level.
Thus, you should not expect to see standard GEM windows, or expect them to
work on all computers made by Atari. What you should expect is some mind-
blowing graphics and sound which push your particular machine to the limit (I
can't wait until some TT specific ones come out, that should be impressive).
By the way, almost all of the "full disk" type demos contain at least one
hidden demo (the one for the Union demo is incredible, and was the root
for the TCB Soundtracker). Usually one of the scrolltexts will tell you how
to invoke it.
--
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
Mickey R. Boyd | "Kirk to Enterprise. All clear
FSU Computer Science | down here. Beam down
Technical Support Group | yeoman Rand and a six-pack . ."
email: boyd@fsucs.cs.fsu.edu |
---------------------------------+-------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 15:40:58 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!icdoc!usenet@uunet.uu.net (Alan David Messer)
Subject: TCB soundtracker / ST User??
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi all,
I've just been down to the local newsagent,and I see that the latest
ST User has a ,so called,FULL version of the TCB tracker! Can this be so??
What I would like to know is how full a version is the full version??
I have the demo version of the tracker,is this ST user version just a
fuller version???
Does it support MIDI??
Does it come with playback routines???
In short has anyone brought the latest ST User and can tell us what comes on
the cover disk in terms of the TCB tracker??
Enquiring minds want to know...
Bye for now,
Alan.
--
+----------------------------+------------------------------------------------+
| Alan Messer. | Janet: adm2@doc.ic.ac.uk |
| Dept. of Computing, | Internet: adm2%doc.ic.ac.uk@nsfnet-relay.ac.uk |
| Imperial College, | BITNET: adm2%doc.ic.ac.uk@ukacrl |
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 13:21:21 GMT
From:
math.fu-berlin.de!unido!fauern!forwiss.uni-passau.de!eva.fmi.uni-passau.de!iws9
060@uunet.uu.net (Thorsten Guenther)
Subject: Vortex Hard Disk Drive question
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi there!
I have some questions to all of you in Netland:
How good is the Software that comes with Vortex' Datajet drives? It is
specially written for them and I do not know if it is comparable to
ICD Tools or SCSI Tools. In a German mag (PD Journal) I have read that
using SCSI Tools on Vortex drives may cause loss of data. Is this true?
If so, then why does this happen? Would you advise me to buy a new controller
instead of going on with the one built in?
Hope there is someone who knows.
Thorsten Guenther
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- If they tell the truth when they say that Rock Music was created by Satan -
- himself, I'd rather try not to get to heaven. -
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 15 Jun 91 08:39:48 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!think.com!yale.edu!ox.com!umich!termina
tor!usenet@arizona.edu (Atari Archive Robot)
Subject: Weekly Posting of New Stuff
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
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------------------------------
Date: 14 Jun 91 06:32:57 GMT
From: esseye!jdbbs!wybbs!therip!FredMail@uunet.uu.net (Rod Fulk)
Subject: Z-RAM made my drive go nuts! WHY!!?? UPDATE.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Tell the guy to check the voltages comming off the power supply..
I bet you will find it isnt 5volts anymore...
When 4 meg of memory is added to a 1040 you HAVE to remove atleast one bank of
the mother board memory..
Or atleast cut off the power going to it..
Best electronics seems to sell a better powersupply too for the 1040's..
Although I am pretty sure if you have them disable the ram on the mother board
your problems will go away...
(remember the 1040's were made to run ONLY 1 meg of memory and support the
ports. Not much over head above that... 520's are a little better since they
are really 1040's with half as much memory and half as much drain from the
memory..)
The 1meg drams are only half as power hungry as the 256k drams though...
So if you take all one meg worth of chips out somehow then you will actually
have as much power used as a 520...
(stf in all cases of course.)
* Origin: The R.I.P. (616)235-2313 [HST] (1:228/24)
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
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