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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 305
Info-Atari16 Digest Fri, 31 May 91 Volume 91 : Issue 305
Today's Topics:
'only_ste.lzh'
ASV - first impressions...
Atari 540ST Questions (2 msgs)
Atari Mortis (3 msgs)
Fan on the MEGAFILE 30 (3 msgs)
gcr
Legal action against STrabble game.
looking for stacey
Modula-3
Problems with GDOS and HD driver (again)
ST User Virus!
Unix for the TT?
WANTED: PD Neochrome Editor
What's a fair comparison?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 06:09:59 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ukma!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!unix.cis.pitt.edu!rjast1@a
rizona.edu (Robert J Anisko)
Subject: 'only_ste.lzh'
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <CMM.0.90.2.675623718.larserio@kvart.ifi.uio.no> larserio@ifi.uio.no
writes:
>The ONLY_STE disk is AUTO-BOOTING and contains PURE DATA for the AUTO-BOOTING
>DEMO. In addition ONE SMALL PART of the disk is a NORMAL DISK with a few
>program files - THIS IS NOT the demo. DO NOT use a virus killer on the disk
>as this will remove the autoboot and make it unusable....
>
> Lars-Erik / ABK-BBS +47 2132659 / ____ ______ ________________________
> Osterud / larserio@ifi.uio.no / /___ / The norwegian ST
For any users that might have been Atari 8-bit users at one time, the
MSA (Magic Shadow Archiving) works in the same way as DISCOMM or Scrunch -
it simply takes data from the whole disk (including boot sectors) and
puts it into a file, so it can be transmitted via modem. Then when the
file is received, you just reverse the process and unpack it to a full
disk, boot and all. For some programs and demos, this is the only
way to go about it (say an author doesn't want you messing with his/her
data (by loading a file into an editor such as Edhack) - so he/she
wipes out the directory and makes the program autobooting - kinda
a method of file protection...
Robert Anisko
rjast1@cis.unix.pitt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 11:28:07 GMT
From: mcsun!cernvax!chx400!bernina!hb9zz@uunet.uu.net (Marco Zollinger)
Subject: ASV - first impressions...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Here in Zurich there has been the anual logic computer show. There have
been several new very interesting products to see, in particular a series
of new Unix machines in the "popular" class. The first I've seen is the
Mac with A/UX 2.1. It isn't yet a SYSV, and there are some compatibility
problems, but the BSD and SYSV libraries are included, and the integration
of MultiFinder and Unix with X Window 11R4 is really impressive. I find
they are really on the good way. I've been there during about 15-20 min,
and Dr. Antonov, the Unix Guru there, I think, explained me every detail
with enourmous enthusiasm. Althougth I don't have a Mac, and the price of
A/UX 2.1 is to high for me (not to speek about the X Win., wich is not
bundled with), his presentation was fantastic.
The second system I've seen is the Amiga 3000UX. It was also really
impressive! The OpenLook interface operated exactly the same way as the
Sun's OpenWindows 2.0 we have at school, and the price was really interesting
too. The Commodore port of SYSV is the most complete I've seen for this class
of machines. It comes with everything, from the networking capabilities
to the BSD lib. and util. and OpenLook. The guy there is a student of
economical computing at the Univ. ZH (his name is Blatter), and he let me
"play" with the machine, showed me an xterm connection with another non
Unix Amiga, and so on.
At last I came to the Arari boots and I couldn't belive my (x)eyes.
The Unix machine was there and there was nobody around it!!!
The windowing interface looked great. I went there and tried some commands
out in a csh, as the cd, ls, and so on. Then came a man, and with an impolite
voice asked me :"kann ich Ihnen helfen?" (can I help you?) and stand in front
of me so that I could not see the screen! The message was clear: Take your
hands off my machine and get out of here! I asked him some details about the
new machine (btw: how can an atari laser work with Unix w/o stopping the
processor? I think it is impossible by soft) and his answer were allways very
expeditive and short. Absolutely no enthusiasm from his side! The only thing
he wanted was that nobody put his finger on thekeyboard! (he maybe was afraid
that somebody typed "rm -r /" or something like that). Anyway he stood all the
time with his shoulder between me and the screen!
His name is Mr. Mester, from Atari Germany. I personnaly find that if they
sent some young guy involved in the devloppent of ASV, instead of this dick
pig, it would be much better. ( Sorry for title on this bandwidth, but he
was really dick and had a face of a pig!)
If this is the Atari policy I think I'll buy an Amiga 3000 UX, wich is btw
ready and can be bought w/o problems (atari devlopper machine will be out
in August!!!).
Ok, that's all! I'm sorry to write something like that, 'cause I was really
excited at the idea I could see the ASV jewell, but it wasn't what I
expected.
I hoped that I could write a good description of what I would see, but I
didn't see very much...
Ciao --- Rick
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Opinion expressed here are mine, and I'm proud of them !!!
And don't forget that: "No problem is so big or so complicated that it can't
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 01:44:20 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!news-server.csri.toronto.edu
!torsqnt!lsuc!jimomura@arizona.edu (Jim Omura)
Subject: Atari 540ST Questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <8cFHkWi00VIB1iHeZd@andrew.cmu.edu> mc4c+@andrew.cmu.edu (Mark Choi)
writes:
>> Excerpts from netnews.comp.sys.atari.st: 28-May-91 Re: Atari 540ST
>> Questions Michel Forget@ersys.edmo (2672)
>
>> > 3) How good is the mouse system on the unit?
>
>> The mouse isn't bad at all. It has two buttons, and looks fairly good.
>> It is a nice mouse, but there are third party mice available if you don't
>> like it. The Atari mouse is FAR BETTER than the Mac mouse, which I have
>
>Are you kidding? You must be kidding!
Time for a few "mouse basics". I can believe that Michel is
very happy with his mouse. I'm very happy with my own mouse too.
I think you seem to be saying that you were not happy with yours.
Well, first, not all Atari mice are the same. For the record,
mine is a "Made in Japan", serial number P1595168339. I've been
told that this was the best series of mice that Atari ever used.
I clean it periodically and it keeps on working fine. It is
perfectly even in response and the click response is fine in most
situations, subject to proper adjustment via the Control Panel.
I don't need a mouse accelerator for my work.
Now, some of the later mice had various problems. At least
1 series of mice would not respond evenly in all directions. The
classic is when you find the cursor doesn't move left as fast as
it moves right. Others are apparently flimsy and don't last.
Furthermore, if you work on a monochrome screen (and particularly
the larger Moniterms) you will find that my mouse would suddenly
feel too slow. That's because the system software doesn't adjust
the response to act proportionally in that manner, so even though
my mouse is fine for me, I could give you my mouse and you'd still
not be happy for that reason. A variable speed mouse accelerator
tends to be a better solution for this than a new mouse though.
At least for some people this is true.
And then there's the surface you work on. I don't use a
"mouse pad". I've tried some and they didn't feel very good. What
I do use is a sheet of old paper to run the mouse on. It allows
the ball to grip well enough without affecting the overall feel.
And then again, even aside from all that, you might not like
my mouse and I might not like one that you like. That's just
taste.
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 03:54:51 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!cis.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-
state.edu!linac!att!pacbell.com!ucsd!sdcc6!sdcc5!cs180sbg@arizona.edu
Subject: Atari 540ST Questions
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <426@equinox.unr.edu> takem_b@mammoth.unr.edu (Brian Takemoto)
writes:
>>I wonder which Atari mouse you're talking about. All Atari mice I've
>>used are the most dreadful rodents I've ever come across, second to
>>none, not even the "original" VAXstation-100 mouse (ever seen one of
>>these?) feels as bad.
>I've seen good mice from Atari and still own (and swear by) my original
>Atari mouse which is at least a couple years old and has been HEAVILY used
>and abused by my brother playing Dungeon Master I and II. Keep in mind that
>this mouse was made in Japan and not country XYZZY. I do swear by MY mouse,
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What country is this?
>but I have also seen others that were "most dreadful rodents"... I've found
>that the Japan mice keep good tracking, button touch, and feel with standard
>care and cleaning... I cannot say the same for most others.
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>takem_b@mammoth.unr.edu (or ?) ucbvax.berkley.edu!mammoth.unr.edu!takem_b
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 05:22:35 GMT
From: van-bc!resbbs!Patrick_Devine@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Patrick Devine)
Subject: Atari Mortis
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Here, in Vancouver, $3000 is in the 486/386-33 range. Of course, that's
with an 80Mb Hard Drive, VGA 1024X768 1Mb Ram video card, and 1-4Mb's or RAM.
The TT on the other hand costs just as much for a lot less. A 386-22 w/VGA,
100+Mb hard disk, etc. is now $1900. All prices are in Canadian dollars
aswell, so that would be around $1650US. It looks as if Atari is cutting
itself short .. again.
patrick_devine
-- Via DLG Pro v0.97b
<eof>
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 05:29:51 GMT
From: noao!ncar!csn!boulder!horton.Colorado.EDU!chuj@arizona.edu (CHU JEFFREY)
Subject: Atari Mortis
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <Patrick_Devine.3646@resbbs.UUCP> Patrick_Devine@resbbs.UUCP (Patrick
Devine) writes:
>
> Here, in Vancouver, $3000 is in the 486/386-33 range. Of course, that's
>with an 80Mb Hard Drive, VGA 1024X768 1Mb Ram video card, and 1-4Mb's or RAM.
>The TT on the other hand costs just as much for a lot less. A 386-22 w/VGA,
>100+Mb hard disk, etc. is now $1900. All prices are in Canadian dollars
>aswell, so that would be around $1650US. It looks as if Atari is cutting
>itself short .. again.
>
>patrick_devine
>
>-- Via DLG Pro v0.97b
>
ATARI is not cheap anymore "POWER WITHOUT THE PRICE" now it should be said
"PRICE WITHOUT THE POWER". In my store I sell the 486-33 for alot cheaper
than that. My 486 systems start at $2275 with HD and monitor, and I seen them
alot cheaper in mags., you just have to look for them. By the way what is
386-22? or do you mean 386-33.
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 05:57:51 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!hellgate.ut
ah.edu!csn!boulder!horton.Colorado.EDU!chuj@arizona.edu (CHU JEFFREY)
Subject: Atari Mortis
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991May31.052951.13342@colorado.edu> chuj@horton.Colorado.EDU (CHU
JEFFREY) writes:
>In article <Patrick_Devine.3646@resbbs.UUCP> Patrick_Devine@resbbs.UUCP
(Patrick Devine) writes:
>ATARI is not cheap anymore "POWER WITHOUT THE PRICE" now it should be said
>"PRICE WITHOUT THE POWER". In my store I sell the 486-33 for alot cheaper
>than that. My 486 systems start at $2275 with HD and monitor, and I seen them
>alot cheaper in mags., you just have to look for them. By the way what is
>386-22? or do you mean 386-33.
I wanted to state that the following was mine opinion, this is not to cause
any flames. After posting this I realize perhaps people may get the wrong
idea. Someone has already sent mail stating how I am against ATARI, WRONG,
I am interested in purchasing a TT and this is how I can learn from people
posting the reasons and why the TT is worth purchasing. I don't plan on
spending close to 3000 on a system in which I am unaware of things. I must
know all point of views and try to get ATARIANS to respond. AS for against
ATARI I have been in flame wars before in defense of ATARI against many
other system users, but only to get involved when I see someone stating
incorrect claims. (TT = i486-25 for example).
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 03:17:36 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!wuarchive!kuhub.cc.ukans.edu!whi
tten@arizona.edu
Subject: Fan on the MEGAFILE 30
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've had a megafile 30 for about a year, and the only complaint
I've had is the loud fan. Is it really needed, or will the
drive run cool enough without it? Are there any ways to quiet the
fan, maybe replacing it with a quieter one?
THanks,
Chris
==============================================================================
WHITTEN@KUHUB.CC.UKANS.EDU Chris Whittenburg, Univ. of Kansas
WHITTEN@UKANVAX.bitnet Electrical Engineering
==============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 08:24:57 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ccut!wnoc-tyo-news!
toumon!wucc!ytsuji@arizona.edu (Y.Tsuji)
Subject: Fan on the MEGAFILE 30
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991May30.221736.31169@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu>,
whitten@kuhub.cc.ukans.edu writes:
>
> I've had a megafile 30 for about a year, and the only complaint
> I've had is the loud fan. Is it really needed, or will the
> drive run cool enough without it? Are there any ways to quiet the
> fan, maybe replacing it with a quieter one?
At first I thought the same and replaced a better fan, which made no
difference (human feel the noise is reduced to half when it is reduced to
one tenth). I then added a couple of diodes along the 12 V line to the fan
to reduce the voltage and turn the fan slower. This didn't make a difference
either. I then bought another 5.25" disk second hand (66 MB at US$150) which
is reputed to be the least noisy. The noise has been reduced to half, but
it was still roaring!
I then bought a 3.5" disk of the same specification at the same price. The
noise has been reduced quite substantially now. But I must say it is still
noisier than ordinary 104 MB SCSI drives.
The megafile30's original drive was a seagate thing and got heated very
easily. People sometimes sticks a very think fan on the drive mechanism
directly,but the casing of megafile30 does not allow this.
A warining: a 3.5" drive cannot be replaced on the 5.25" mounting.
Tsuji
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 08:28:20 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ccut!wnoc-tyo-news!
toumon!wucc!ytsuji@arizona.edu (Y.Tsuji)
Subject: Fan on the MEGAFILE 30
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
P.S.
The drive to be replaced must be RLL or 'as good as RLL certified'.
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 10:56:52 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!pacbell.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pnet01!pr
o-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: gcr
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
can specture gcr use apple system 7?how much memory does the atari need to
run it since on a mac it needs mnionimum of 2 megs.?
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 05:12:30 GMT
From:
munnari.oz.au!bunyip.cc.uq.oz.au!brolga!uqcspe!cs.uq.oz.au!warwick@uunet.uu.net
(Warwick Allison)
Subject: Legal action against STrabble game.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In <uiLR324w164w@mantis.co.uk> mathew@mantis.co.uk (CNEWS MUST DIE!) writes:
>As an aside:
>I play the PD Tetris and Arkanoid games rather than the commercial ones.
>Why?
>Because I have a monochrome monitor.
>If the software companies are so lazy that they won't make their games run on
>my computer, well, I'll just have to use the superior PD programs.
>I think (no guarantees) that the commercial Scrabble game is colour-only. It
>certainly looks that way from the box.
I wouldn't be suprised - the IBM version only uses CGA (the lowest of the lows).
This does show how poor the implementation is. I wrote STrabble in mono first,
then spent 2 days converting it to colour. It can only be described as poor
programming not to be so flexible.
Hey, and get this: The IBM version had music and beeps!
I was soooooo impressed :-).
Ciao,
Warwick.
--
_-_|\ warwick@cs.uq.oz.au
/ * <-- Computer Science Department,
\_.-._/ University of Queensland,
v Brisbane, AUSTRALIA.
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 10:56:49 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!pacbell.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pnet01!pr
o-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: looking for stacey
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
anyone have a stacey for sale?give me your phone numbers and your desired
or price!
thanks
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 00:15:00 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!c
sd4.csd.uwm.edu!sinner@arizona.edu (Kenton E. Sinner)
Subject: Modula-3
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Has anyone ported Modula-3 to the ST? Is anyone working on it?
kenton.
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 12:22:54 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia
.edu!ira.uka.de!iravcl.ira.uka.de!s_kraemer@arizona.edu
Subject: Problems with GDOS and HD driver (again)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've got problems using GDOS (AMCGDOS) with the harddisk driver of my vortex
HDplus 20 (hardware: Mega ST 2 with TOS 1.4).
GDOS works if I don't use the harddisk, so I guess the problem is the disk
driver. (The path in ASSIGN.SYS seems to be correct).
Does anybody know how to solve this? Or can I use another HD driver without
getting into trouble?
Thanks for information!
Oliver Kraemer
Litzelaustr. 4A
W-7500 Karlsruhe 21
Germany
E-Mail: s_kraemer@iravcl.ira.uka.de
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 02:46:10 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!demon!news@uunet.uu.net (Gavin Syme)
Subject: ST User Virus!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <10099@suns2.crosfield.co.uk>, imt@crosfield.co.uk (ian taylor) wri-
tes:
>(This is probably only of interest to UK netters, although I believe ST User
>magazine is available internationally by mail order)
>
>Has anyone had problems with this months (June) ST User cover disk?
>I think that there is a free virus included on the coverdisk, which mangled
>the directory of two of my disks before I eradicated it. This is the second
>time that ST User has done this, and frankly I am bloody unimpressed. Anyone
>who's got this disk, beware.
>
>
According to vkiller, there's nothing wrong with the disk. Looks like
your problems lie elsewhere.
Gavin Syme.
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 03:56:51 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!hobbes.physics.u
iowa.edu!news.iastate.edu!vaxf.iastate.edu!TNFW0@arizona.edu
Subject: Unix for the TT?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Since I haven't seen any talk about this subject, I'll start some. Is UNIX yet
available for the TT, or is that somewhere in the indefinite (infinte?) future?
Steven Ourada
------------------------------
Date: 31 May 91 05:25:38 GMT
From: van-bc!resbbs!Patrick_Devine@uunet.uu.net (Patrick Devine)
Subject: WANTED: PD Neochrome Editor
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does someone have a public domain Neochrome editor other then Art ST 2? Art
ST is so limiting, its not funny. The pixel drawing command only works on
half of the page, and the clearscreen command leaves part of the page on the
screen aswell. Ack!
patrick_devine
-- Via DLG Pro v0.97b
<eof>
------------------------------
Date: 30 May 91 23:30:04 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!linac!convex!rosen
kra@arizona.edu (William Rosencranz)
Subject: What's a fair comparison?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991May30.145023.1684@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us
(Stephen Jacobs) writes:
>has had several articles on the subject), but I'll modestly propose as a
>benchmark the time for GNU C to compile itself, with all temporary files on
>hard disk. Any other suggestions?
benchmarking is often serious stuff, at least at the level i deal with.
so, you must also post guidelines like 1) all tmp files to single n sized
(empty) partition, 2) hd seed rate should be included in results, 3) non-
standard clock speed, 4) version of GNU C (which can't be enhanced),
5) compiler switches, etc, etc, etc...
as u can see, to truly make objective comparisons you have to be thorough.
in general, benchmarks including compiles are less desirable (yes, even
SPECmark) since you more often than not compare compilers not systems.
dhrystone is notorious for this (i have seen *widely* varying DS for
exactly the same hardware, just different compilers). i think you are
better off with real or near-real applications and just use the fastest
compiler for that system. report the compiler as well. at least with
real applications, users have a better feel more often than not.
i would also try to exercise different aspects of an architecture: raw
cpu, data/instruction cache, i/o, screen writes, etc. fortunately (???)
the TOS ST is not multitasking (really) so that at least there are no
issues like throughput vs single job times :-)
in general, the more information the better. try to avoid single number
performance indeces. let the user make up his own mind. his/her application
may be totally different than yours...
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP: {uunet,texsun}!convex!c1yankee!rosenkra
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra%c1yankee@convex.com
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
