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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 313
Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 5 Jun 91 Volume 91 : Issue 313
Today's Topics:
'only_ste.lzh'
Atari TT
ATARI TT030 versus AT 386/33 MHz and 64KB Cac
ATonce Plus
CBHD
Degas -> Gif Format converter?
Fan on the MEGAFILE 30
G++ for ST, where again?
LOGO
longer cable for Atari SH204 HD?
More than 4 Meg ??
Overheated harddisk
PLEASE EMAIL ADDRESS TO PANARTHEA FILESERVER.
Publishers (II) (2 msgs)
SM124 mono monitor for sale, great cond. $100/b.o
ST User Virus!
TT newsgroup
Unix for the TT?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 5 Jun 91 02:34:38 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!atha!ls
uc!jimomura@arizona.edu (Jim Omura)
Subject: 'only_ste.lzh'
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well, today I finally got a chance to try out this demo kit.
Having verified the file I uploaded it to a local BBS in its original
form. I thought about adding a documentation file, but changed
my mind. It needs one, but frankly I was just too tired at the time.
The music is indeed *very* good. So is the overall finish of the
package. The only thing I don't like about that is the concept of the
packaging as an autobooting disk in an MSA file.
But I'm a bit worried about the comments I've been hearing
about this demo. I don't want to sound overly negative about this,
but with all the enthusiasm of the postings, I'm wondering if
somebody might end up showing this around expecting to impress
some heavy duty "stereo nut", or a really hip musician who has
a few thousand tied up in Yamaha and Roland, or even some of
the other brands of computers. Don't think you're going to impress
an Amiga owner or even an old Apple II owner who has a good music
card -- say, 1982 vintage. 8 bit resolution is 8 bit resolution and
though this demo is really good, it's not going to "blow [anybody]
away" who is really experienced in the field. It shows aliasing at
times and even clipping, and the dynamic range is generally flat.
That's not the fault of the programmers. It's simply the limits of
the hardware showing themselves.
Guys, it's *really good*! In fact, it may well be the best we'll
ever see on the STE as it now stands and indeed it's about as good
as anything I've heard on the Amigas and Tandy MS-DOS boxes. But
it's not better. . . .
--
Jim Omura, 2A King George's Drive, Toronto, (416) 652-3880
lsuc!jimomura
Byte Information eXchange: jimomura
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jun 91 20:20:26 GMT
From: imagen!atari!apratt@sun.com (Allan Pratt)
Subject: Atari TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
baffoni@aludra.usc.edu (Juxtaposer) writes:
> From the discussion on c.s.a.st a while back with Alan Pratt, I believe he
>said that you can only have 4MB _ST_ ram. You can have 16 MB TTram like you
>said, but that the other 6MB of ram comes from using the VME bus for ram
>expansion. In fact, the VME ram is supposed to be faster than STram (no
>sharing it with video, etc.), even though it is slower than TT ram.
No, no, no... Your picture of memory in a TT and its limits is a little
off.
On the motherboard there are two megabytes of ST RAM. Period. No options,
no extra SIMM or DIP sockets, no nothing.
You can buy a 2MB ST RAM add-on card, for a total of 4MB of ST RAM. There
may one day be an 8MB ST RAM add-on card, resulting in a total of 10MB
of ST RAM.
You can buy a 4MB TT RAM add-on card. It may be that, with some work, you
can make this address 16MB of TT RAM. In future (now?) you can buy 16MB of
TT RAM from Atari -- I'm just not sure.
All of these boards are more than just RAM -- they also have memory
controllers which you can't just get off the shelf.
In the TT030, there is one VME slot, but it is not appropriate to put
system expansion RAM there. The slot is for peripherals, not RAM. If you
DO put RAM there, you have to tell the OS about it yourself, and it will be
slow: it's not cacheable, it's only 16 bits wide, it's on the VME bus, and
it's not SCSI-accessible (meaning transfers have to be use SCSI-accessible
RAM; this is taken care of in the drivers, but it slows you down). I've
put memory there to test things, and it is not fun. Things run
DRAMATICALLY slower from that kind of RAM.
It is not unreasonable to suppose that Atari may, in future, come out with
a machine in the TT family which has full-featured VME, including the
ability to put 32-bit, cacheable, OS-detectable, SCSI-accessible RAM on the
VME bus. The TT is designed with this in mind, but the actual VME bus in
the TT030 isn't capable of it. Such RAM would be slower than TT RAM
(mainly because you can't do burst fills on the VME bus) and about the same
speed as ST RAM: faster because it's not shared with video, but slower
because it's on the VME bus.
============================================
Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 00:03:04 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_R
etelle@arizona.edu
Subject: ATARI TT030 versus AT 386/33 MHz and 64KB Cac
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Just one question regarding the TT/AT comparison testing...
Why didn't you play Eye of the Beholder on your TT..?
BobR
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 00:02:04 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!slxsys!ibmpcug!monck@uunet.uu.net (Paul Monckton)
Subject: ATonce Plus
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi,
Would anyone who is successfully using comms software under ATonce emulation
please contact me via email?
thanks,
Paul
--
Automatic Disclaimer:
The views expressed above are those of the author alone and may not
represent the views of the IBM PC User Group.
--
"I'm minuspeptic, frasmotic,
compunctuous even, to have caused you such pericombobulation" .. Black Adder
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 91 09:55 N
From: <MFAGKCHR%HMARL5.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: CBHD
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Claus Brod writes:
>I won't comment on my own driver, ....
So, someone has to do it for you I guess. Since I am a beta tester for CBHD I
might as well toss in a few words. (Of course my views might be biassed since
Claus tend to actually listen to his testers, so some of the things I think
important may be there, just because I and a few others think they are
important)
Well,
- I run CBHD on three machines 2 mega 2's(TOS 1.04 but one eas used with
TOS 1.02 for some time) and a 1040 with TOS 1.0. It is used with megafiles
(30 and 60) and a Syquest unit (as unit 2). It never gave me any trouble.
- Booting from all partitions is allowed.
- Auto folder and accessories can be booted from different partitions.
- Desktop can be saved on active partition.
- There is a configuration program (translating this in english might help!)
It configures (among others):
- build in pool extension (no more foldrxxx).
- build in Gemdos cache (separate FAT and DIR cache as in atari's original).
- units to scan at boot up (faster boot if you never use units 2-6)
- which drives are removable (it does recognise changes on the syquest)
- which drives are write protected
The configuration program can also be run as an accessory (and I heard
Claus wants to make it a CPX module, or may have done that allready).
Some changes will work only after reset however.
- There is no full SCSI support (TT) yet. I know Claus is working on that
one. Since he owns a TT my guesses are that this won't be long.
If you buy the book you get a few hundred pages of the most interesting
text on atari disk specifics. The most interesting one on the subject
I ever read (OK, I didn't read any other :-) ). And a disk full (actually
overfull, it is formatted big and is full with lzh files) with other
usefull programs and sources. To give an example: Last week I repartitioned
a megafile 60 with the harddisk tool SED. I removed the last two partitions
(there were six) to get a more transparant network set-up, and added it to
the partition just before that one. No problem, and the contents of the first
three partitions was still there. I think it is among the most worthwhile
money I ever spent on atari documentation (just received the dutch set of
atari developers documentation, must have been on the shelves since 1987 )-:)
and software. I think it should be translated.
Hope I didn't get to enthousiastic...
Chris Evelo
==============================================================
Dept. of Occup. & Chris Evelo
Environm. Health MFAGKCHR@HMARL5 (BITNET)
and Toxicology.
University of Limburg Tel: 31-43-888635
P.O. Box 616 Fax: 31-43-436080
6200 MD Maastricht
The Netherlands
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: 5 Jun 91 11:10:40 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!spool.m
u.edu!cs.umn.edu!uc!shamash!timbuk!marc@arizona.edu (Marc Bouron)
Subject: Degas -> Gif Format converter?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun4.183535.568@colorado.edu>, elliottj@tramp.colorado.edu (Jim
Elliott) writes:
>
> Is there a utility for switching Degas-type picture files into
> GIF format? I'd like to find such a utility for a friend of mine who has
> a 1040ST, but I didn't see anything really appropriate on atari.archive.
> umich.edu. I know that PicSwitch will go from Gif to Degas (or other
> formats), but I didn't think it went the other way. If someone could mail
> me with information on where to find such a program, I'd appreciate it.
Take a look in the printing/pbm directory at atari.archive: the pbm-bin.zoo file
contains a zillion programs to convert from graphics format A to format B. PIx
and GIF are mentioned, so there should be a path between them.
> Jim
> elliottj@tramp.colorado.edu
Cheers,
[M][a][r][c]
################################################################################
# # marc@sequoia.cray.com # . . #
# Marc CR Bouron # M.Bouron@cray.co.uk (ARPA) # _|\ /|_ #
# Cray Research (UK) Ltd. # M.Bouron@crayuk.uucp (DOMAIN) # (_|_V_|_) #
# +44 344 485971 x2208 # M.Bouron@uk.co.cray (JANET) # | | #
# # ...!ukc!crayuk!M.Bouron (UUCP) # #
################################################################################
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 05:52:58 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@a
rizona.edu (Juxtaposer)
Subject: Fan on the MEGAFILE 30
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun03.074746.17142@cs.ruu.nl> jeroen@cs.ruu.nl (Jeroen Fokker)
writes:
>I have that kit, too. Or rather: I _had_ it. I disconnected it,
>because since it was installed, I had some troubles with the disk.
>
>When the disk was used for more than four hours the day before,
>it wouldn't start up again. I nedd to shake the entire disk quite
>roughly to get it rotating again. I know some day this will have
>disastrous effects...
I wouldn't be so quick to blame the kit on this problem. I see SO many
disks come in where I work that have this problem, where the spindle sticks.
It happens on low capacity drives (especialy 3 1/2" drives like the ST125(N))
a lot. No one has been able to tell me how to fix this problem (if it is
fixable), but I have found that by manually rotating the spindle frees it up
a lot safer than shaking it.
>--
>Jeroen Fokker | jeroen@cs.ruu.nl
>dept.of Computer Science, Utrecht University | tel.+31-30-534129
>PObox 80089, 3508TB Utrecht, the Netherlands | fax.+31-30-513791
-Mike
------------------------------
Date: 5 Jun 91 11:49:42 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!orion.oac.uci.edu!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!@arizo
na.edu (Ulrich Kuehn)
Subject: G++ for ST, where again?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun4.085639.6298@nlsca.uucp>, frans@nlsca.uucp (Frans Meijer)
says:
>A few weeks ago, somebody announced G++ 1.39 (and gcc 1.39) for
>the ST. It was available from an FTP site in Germany (where else? :-),
>I think. Anybody remember where it was??
>Viele Thanks in advance
I know only the ethernet adress of that node, I cant remember the name:
it was 134.95.64.1, its somewhere in koeln in germany
The stuff is in atari/gnu/g++/cs, but it has no debugger :-(
U.Kuehn
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 05:45:18 GMT
From: comp.vuw.ac.nz!actrix!Roger.Sheppard@uunet.uu.net (Roger Sheppard)
Subject: LOGO
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Does any one know if its posible to get Ataries Logo to work with Tos 1.4/1.6
I do get a out of Memory when I try to load a Logo Program/File,
Note: The software does load up on a 1040 ST with Tos 1.4.
Are there any patches to make this work ?
--
*** Roger W. Sheppard * Roger.Sheppard@bbs.actrix.gen.nz ***
*** 85 Donovan Rd * * At least I don't Flicker, not ***
*** Kapiti New Zealand.. * like a dying light globe. ! ***
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jun 91 20:25:23 GMT
From: imagen!atari!apratt@sun.com (Allan Pratt)
Subject: longer cable for Atari SH204 HD?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
kgg@zinn.MV.COM (Kenn Goutal) writes:
>I have a 1040ST with the Atari SH204 hard disk drive.
>The cable that came with it is about 1.5 feet long,
>and this *severely* limits where I can put the drive
>relative to the system/keyboard.
>Is it possible to get a longer cable???
>Will a longer cable work? (i.e. is the protocol length-sensitive?)
The DMA cable has to be short. Atari once accidentally shipped drives with
a 3' cable, and all hell broke loose. Some third parties ship thier drives
with long cables, too, but you use those at your peril. About 2' is all
you get with any reliability. If those 6" mean a lot to you, ask a dealer.
============================================
Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 10:16:44 GMT
From: munnari.oz.au!uhccux!uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!kiki@uunet.uu.net (Jack W.
Wine)
Subject: More than 4 Meg ??
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <91154.141443SYSPMZT@GECRDVM1.BITNET> SYSPMZT@gecrdvm1.crd.ge.com
writes:
>The implication I've heard is that I can only address 4 Meg with my 1040 STe.
>I've already upgraded to that point with 4 1-Meg SIMMS, and am wondering if,
>should memory prices drop in the future, I'll be able to expand with
>4 2-Meg or 4 4-Meg SIMMS.
>
>Is there an architectural restriction limiting a 1040 STe to addressing
>4 Meg, and if so, what is that restriction? Also, can anyone explain if and
>why I must add symetric amounts of memory in the SIMM slots? (eg 4 1-Meg, not
>1 1-Meg and 3 256K, etc.)
From the looks of my STe, the extra multiplexed address line from the MMU-GLUE
(MLUE) to the SIMMs doesn't exist. However, the MLUE is a 144 pin chip and a
logic probe showed that most of the unconnected pins are definitely alive! It
was mentioned earlier that Fast Technology supposedly had a 14MB DRAM upgrade
for the 1040 STe, but I'm not sure how it obtains signals from the MLUE which
has extremely thin surface-mounted pins.
Another puzzle is the shifter, which was enlarged to 84 pins from a 40 pin
chip. Besides the increased palette, what are all those extra pins used for???
Also someone posted some info about the SCSI-like Microwire serial bus that
the STe has and I hope someone has more docs regarding it.
Jack
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 91 10:08 N
From: <MFAGKCHR%HMARL5.BITNET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Overheated harddisk
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Jeroen Fokker writes:
>I have that kit, too. Or rather: I _had_ it. I disconnected it,
>because since it was installed, I had some troubles with the disk.
>When the disk was used for more than four hours the day before,
>it wouldn't start up again. I nedd to shake the entire disk quite
>roughly to get it rotating again. I know some day this will have
>disastrous effects...
>I blame the fan thermostate for this problem. Unfortunately, although
>I disconnected it, I have still this startup problem.
>I wouldnt recommend a fan thermostate.
I had a problem like this once, when a fan would not run at all.
After the fan itself was cured, I had to reformat the drive.
Since then I had no problems.
Chris Evelo
==============================================================
Dept. of Occup. & Chris Evelo
Environm. Health MFAGKCHR@HMARL5 (BITNET)
and Toxicology.
University of Limburg Tel: 31-43-888635
P.O. Box 616 Fax: 31-43-436080
6200 MD Maastricht
The Netherlands
==============================================================
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 03:09:53 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jone
s_Woodworth@arizona.edu
Subject: PLEASE EMAIL ADDRESS TO PANARTHEA FILESERVER.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Title says it all. Thank you in advance.
Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com
------------------------------
Date: 3 Jun 91 23:47:29 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!apple!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_R
etelle@arizona.edu
Subject: Publishers (II)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Spend some time driving around downtown Windsor, Ontario in a van with
Dave Small and other Atari developers... talk a little with Charles F.
Johnson. Find out how close most developers are to losing everything
they've sweated and bled to build up. Talk with magazine publishers
and editors who can't pay their contributors because their advertisers
are either out of business or can't afford to pay their advertising
bills. Talk with dealers who have either gone out of business, losing
most of their investments in the Atari market, or who have been forced
to go on into other markets. Talk with current Atari dealers who can't
get products to sell, so they can stay in business.
Europe may be a different story, but in the U.S.A, Atari=dead.
Hopeful signs 1-5 = too little, too late.
I'm sorry, I don't like it either
BobR
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 09:38:20 GMT
From: elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!@locus.ucla.edu (Jack W. Wine)
Subject: Publishers (II)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Jun01.162956.1057@chinet.chi.il.us> saj@chinet.chi.il.us
(Stephen Jacobs) writes:
>
>1)Atari Corp. has finally cleared away the wreckage of the Federated disaster.
Last year's online mags indicated how it significantly depleted Atari of
monetary reserves and probably checked ST development for a long time. I
think the best time to evaluate Atari's prospects will be fall '91/spring '92,
when they reveal how the ST line will evolve.
The June '91 AtariUser stated that Atari Israel will hire 600 workers, mostly
comprised of engineers. Oy, with 600 engineers, Atari must be developing some-
thing!
All the computer companies are struggling thru the recession and Atari seems
to be weathering it pretty well. Since becoming downsized, they seem to be
more responsive, even with less capital compared to their competitors. I
don't know of other top executives participating in online conferences with
the public, so it shows Atari is willing to listen. I'm not sure if it would
be possible for them to get on an Internet MUD or IRC, but it would be nice.
Jack
------------------------------
Date: 5 Jun 91 02:50:05 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!rpi!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!mips!app
le!portal!cup.portal.com!Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@arizona.edu
Subject: SM124 mono monitor for sale, great cond. $100/b.o
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Atari monochrome monitor, model SM124. Great condition.
Original packaging included.
$100/best offer.
Bryan_Jones_Woodworth@cup.portal.com
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 04:32:33 GMT
From: ccncsu!lamar!sytang@purdue.edu (Shoou-yu tang)
Subject: ST User Virus!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Just got a copy from local dealer, the Vkiller 3.84 checked it OK.
Also checked the Uniterm that included on disk, here is some result:
1. Althought the date associated with the included Uniterm were some time in
87.
While the Uniter2.0E02 from atari.archive has date 86. The file size is bigger
in 2.0E.
2. The version # on the Uniterm upon boot up, the atari.archive one shown 2.0E
and ST USER one shown 2.0C.
3. Once in the Help menu, pull down the Desk and look for the About ... shows\
2.0E002 for atari.archive one and 2.0C014 for ST USER one.
So it looks like the 2.0E on the Atari.archive is latest not the ST USER one.
Tang
sytang@lamar.colostate.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 91 10:23 MET
From: "Chris Evelo: MFAGKCHR@HMARL5 (BITNET)"
<MFAGKCHR%RULIMBURG.NL@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: TT newsgroup
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Richard Jelinek writes:
>What about comp.sys.atari.tt ????
Please don't.
- ST articles are of interest to TT users, since A TT can run
all well written ST software.
- TT articles might be of interest to ST only users. I hope this will
lead to more well written software.
- It is not that easy to get newsgroups all over the world. I get the ST
newsgroup as a digest on bitnet. I still am not able to get the tech
discussions. (Did someone find out how to get these on bitnet?)
While I am at it:
I really hate all those messages from people selling stuff on the other side
of the world.
Chris Evelo
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 91 05:33:06 GMT
From:
arizona.edu!cerritos.edu!nic.csu.net!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@a
rizona.edu (Juxtaposer)
Subject: Unix for the TT?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991May31.192058.10926@nntp.hut.fi> s37837k@saha.hut.fi (Jari Lehto)
writes:
>Unix System V Release 4 is available for TT. The package consists of
>TT 030/8 or higher (16 Mb would be quite good), harddisk bigger than
>200Mb (I'm not quite sure of this), X-Windows, TTM 194 19" MC-monitor
>and a big bunch of software and manuals.
>I don't know the exact price, but it is much lower than the NeXT Station,
>and A 3000 & Unix SVR4.
By a little? A lot? Is that only available in Europe/Canada or is that/
will that be available in the US too?
>
>Just checked, the harddisk is 200Mb, and there are also VME Ethernet network
>card, OSF/Motif, and GNU package (with C, C++ etc.).
>
Are there extra card slots? If not, will there be some way of expanding past
the 20MB limit (16TT + 4ST ram) since the slot would be taken up by the
ethernet card?
>
>* Jari Lehto * 90-387939 * Jari.Lehto@hut.fi * Music, love & *
>* Tenavatie 19 A* 90-382887 * jartsu@vipunen.hut.fi * friendship! *
>* 00760 HELSINKI* 94040/02887 * jartsu@otax.hut.fi * Garlic, beer &*
>* Finland * fax +358 0 8735916 * s37837k@saha.hut.fi * sausage! *
I had a question for all the hardware gurus who know whats what about
the TT - like Alan Pratt, etc. I know that the TT uses a daughter-board
to use the TT "fast" memory, and that this board has chips that allow access
of up to 16MB of memory. What I was wondering is, is this 16MB limit a limit
due to the daughter-board, a limit of the TT, or just a limit of the TOS?
For instance, would it be possible for a third party company (if Atari does't
do it themselves) to manufacture a daughter-board that accesses more than
the present 16MB?
-Mike
PS: Is the unix/TT the same hardware with the new software, or are there any
hardware changes? New card slots? New ROMs (I had heard they couldn't run
ST software _and_ run the Unix software)?
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
