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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 154
Info-Atari16 Digest Tue, 19 Mar 91 Volume 91 : Issue 154
Today's Topics:
1.44mb drives ? (3 msgs)
1040STE's
games
Help installing GNUEmacs V18.55!
IFF converters?
Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #148
Message about the german translator program
Mouse Crazy! (also NoiseTracker 1.5)
new atari.archive uploads
New standards for MiNT programs?
Of Mice and Many Codehead Upgrades
OKIDATA color Printer 4 sale
Prolog for the ST
Prolog summary
Supra 2400 Baud modem 4 sale
WOW!!!!
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 13:29:58 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!uupsi!sunic!news.funet.fi!hydra!kreeta!luo
to@arizona.edu (Markku Luoto)
Subject: 1.44mb drives ?
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
just to compare the markets... how much can you expect to spend on:
a) about 100mb hard disk (just drive) type seagate ST-xxxN (scsi or scsi2) ?
b) for a 1.44mb floppy disk drive (just drive ) ???
thanks !
Ps. also: where to get them cheap! near baltimore / washington ???
again.. thanks !
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>>> " I'm completely operational & all my cicuits are functioning <<<<<<
>>>>>> correctly...correc...corr...co...-! " : HAl9000 <<<<<<
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 18:45:39 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!vsnyder@arizona.edu
(Van Snyder)
Subject: 1.44mb drives ?
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
In article <12368@hydra.Helsinki.FI> luoto@cs.Helsinki.FI (Markku Luoto) writes:
>
>just to compare the markets... how much can you expect to spend on:
>
>a) about 100mb hard disk (just drive) type seagate ST-xxxN (scsi or scsi2) ?
IDS in Irvine, CA (714/530-8677) has ST-2106N for $679. IME (a surplus
liquidator) in Boston (800/999-1911) has Maxtor LXT-100 (95 MB) 3.5" hh SCSI for
$299, Rodime 5180-S (144 MB) 5.25" hh SCSI for $399.
>b) for a 1.44mb floppy disk drive (just drive ) ???
MA Labs in San Jose, CA (408/954-8188) sells 1.44 MB drives for $58.
I don't know that US prices will much help the Finnish poster, but they may be
of interest to US readers.
--
vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder
vsnyder@jato.uucp
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 19:32:18 GMT
From: ucdavis!csusac!csuchico.edu!ekrimen@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Ed Krimen)
Subject: 1.44mb drives ?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
luoto@cs.Helsinki.FI (Markku Luoto) writes:
- just to compare the markets... how much can you expect to spend on:
-
- a) about 100mb hard disk (just drive) type seagate ST-xxxN (scsi or
- scsi2) ?
About $350 for a Quantum 105meg drive, 11ms. Check out back of
MacWeek or Computer Shopper. Hard Drives International (Tempe, AZ I
think) had them for $350 last I heard.
- b) for a 1.44mb floppy disk drive (just drive ) ???
60-70 bucks? No controller or anything, just drive.
--
Ed Krimen ...............................................
||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico
||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661
/ | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 16:01:45 GMT
From: daffy!cat34.cs.wisc.edu!carter@rsch.wisc.edu (Gregory Carter)
Subject: 1040STE's
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
*****************************************************************************
* SPECIAL OFFER SPECIAL OFFER SPECIAL OFFER SPECIAL OFFER SPECIAL OFFER *
*****************************************************************************
I have 3 1040STE's made by ATARI corporation. These machines are brand new
and were obtained through liquidation at a going out of business sale in
Minnesota.
Machines Features:
- 8MHz 68000
- 3 8bit digital-analog sound converters for PCM Stereo Sound output
(Standard RCA Jack hookup for stereo amplifier)
- 720K Floppy Drive (3 1/2)
- Memory; 1Mb standard. Expandable via Industry Standard SIMMS to 4mb
- Video; 4096 Color palette; with 3 different video modes:
1) 640x400 Monchrome mode
2) 640x200 4 Color mode
3) 320x200 16 color mode
- Can use either a TV or a RGB monitor for display. Compatible with
Multisync monitors with special cable.
- MIDI(Muscial Instrument Digital Interface) ready ports.
- 95-key keyboard
- RS232C, Centronics, DMA Hard Disk, cartridge ports
Price $399 includes: 1 Box of 3 1/2 inch disks
Shipping anywhere in USA.
1 Disk of PD software
Really nice machine. If you want more info, please call me at 608-264-3622
or during the week of 23-April 2nd: 414-494-4114
INTERNET a great place to save money.
--Gregory
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 15:28:20 GMT
From: noao!ncar!gatech!psuvax1!psuvm!krr102@arizona.edu
Subject: games
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
Hey out there, can anyone tell me if there is a ST version of the followin
g 8bit games: Castle Wolfenstein I and/or II, and M.U.L.E.????
Aloha,
MW
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 14:48:07 GMT
From: aurs01!whitcomb@uunet.uu.net (Jonathan Whitcomb)
Subject: Help installing GNUEmacs V18.55!
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
I recently downloaded GNUEmacs V18.55 from a local bulletin board, but
have had problems installing it. I have a Mega 2, so that should be
enough memory, but when I try to run it, I get an error message
saying that the program was unable to load the Lisp code. I am
trying to run the program using the environment variables in the
Hotwire! shell.
The installation documents are really sketchy. It is possible that I
am missing some files, or that my directory setup is wrong. Could
someone who has this working mail me the directory map of all the
files and where they are supposed to go, and the necessary
environment variables?
Thanks.
**********************************************************************
Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: <...!mcnc!aurgate!whitcomb>
(919) 850-6231 I'm not a software engineer,
Raleigh, NC but I play one on TV.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 22:25:36 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!news.nd.edu!mentor.cc.purd
ue.edu!youngmw@arizona.edu (Michael)
Subject: IFF converters?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Is there a good iff converter that someone could recommend?
I would like one that converts to Spectrum 512 format.
If anyone has a PD or shareware one could they upload it to
atari.archive?
Aaron
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 91 13:18:44 EST
From: ACDGREG@vm.uoguelph.ca
Subject: Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #148
To: Atarians <Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
FOR SALE:
Atari 1040 ST
1 meg internal memory
Internal DSDD disk drive
Tweety Board stereo sound adapter
SC1224 Colour Monitor
LOTS of ORIGINAL software
Dust covers, joysticks, mouse, power supplies, cables, etc.
**Asking: $450.00 Canadian.
E-Mail to ACDGREG@VM.UOGUELPH.CA
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 16:57:20 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!ai-lab!life.ai.mit
.edu!johnb@arizona.edu (John Bunch)
Subject: Message about the german translator program
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
Hello,
A while back I posted a question about the german to english program,
but I managed to destroy my mailbox and would like to know if the 2
people that replied to it would please mail me again... Thanx.
--
************************************************************************
* John Bunch * 610 Morris St. * To be filled with a nifty *
* johnb@albert.ai.mit.edu * Albany,NY * quote at a later date... *
* * 12208 * *
************************************************************************
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 14:02:37 GMT
From: tardis.computer-science.edinburgh.ac.uk!robotron@ucbvax.berkeley.edu
(Stephen K Mulrine)
Subject: Mouse Crazy! (also NoiseTracker 1.5)
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
In comp.sys.atari.st, smisra@eos.ncsu.edu (SAURABH MISRA) writes:
>I have had this little bug for a while and was wondering what caused it:
>Sometimes when you put a different disk in the drive, and press the
>escape key to see its contents, then after that the mouse movements become
>opposite. That is when moving it up, the mouse pointer goes down and so
>forth.
I found this would happen every fifth time I swapped disks and pressed ESC.
Originally I thought it was a bug in TOS, but then I found my favourite disk
had an executable bootsector. This virus seems to be otherwise harmless and
can be killed with any disk utility which allows you to toggle bootsector
executability.
I got NoiseTracker v1.5 recently. I'm sure it's public domain, so should I
try to upload it to atari.archive? There's nothing in any of the
documentation which suggests I shouldn't distribute it, but there's nothing
which says I should either. It's a wonderful piece of software - I use it
on my STe to play Sound/NoiseTracker modules I've downloaded from a couple
of Amiga Games Machine anonymous FTP sites (ab20.larc.nasa.gov and
mars.ee.msstate.edu). NB if you reply via email, use one of the addresses
in my .signature.
--
UUCP: ..!uunet!nsf.ac.uk!tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk!robotron
BITNET: robotron%tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk@UKACRL
INTERNET: robotron%tardis.cs.ed.ac.uk@cunyvm.cuny.edu
JANET: robotron@uk.ac.ed.cs.tardis
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 17:01:47 GMT
From: noao!ncar!csn!boulder!tramp.Colorado.EDU!millert@arizona.edu (MILLER TODD
C)
Subject: new atari.archive uploads
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
I uploaded the following files. Some are available now, some will be soon :-)
vsquared.lzh - Valgus Squared : similar to welltris (color game)
dterm_1c.lzh - new versio of Dterm
chicgfnt.lzh - replace the system font with a nicer chicago-style font
(includes font loader)
emula.lzh - emulate colro on a mono monitor and mono on a color one
(docs are in German)
st_tools.lzh - disk util similar to PC tools
- todd
--
Todd C. Miller | "But all the politiCIAns now
millert@tramp.Colorado.EDU | They have no excuse
al804@cleveland.Freenet.Edu | They just hide behind their power
University of Colorado @ Boulder | And keep us from the truth" - Roger McGuinn
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 21:55:34 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!convex!rosenkra@arizona.edu
(William Rosencranz)
Subject: New standards for MiNT programs?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Mar19.105139.28070@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov
(Howard Chu) writes:
>In article <1991Mar19.150319.25547@qut.edu.au> lunnon@qut.edu.au writes:
>>Huh, why not use dirent ??? This seems reasonably capable and is portable
>>to boot ???
>
>I'd agree, we should try to hide the Fsfirst/Fsnext layer completely and
>use the Unix *dir routines instead. (This seems reasonable, given MiNT's
>apparent intent to provide as much BSD functionality as possible...)
i agree with howard. only i think we should pick BSD or USG, but *not*
both. POSIX would be ideal (does it say anything about opendir/readdir/etc?
wait, i just checked... yes it does). i have to carry around ndir.h direct.h
dirent.h and all the others from BSD and USG for portability. let's stick
to posix, here, and do away with the duplicity.
posix synopsi are:
#include <sys/types.h>
#include <dirent.h>
DIR *opendir(dirname)
char *dirname;
struct dirent *readdir(dirp)
DIR *dirp;
void rewinddir(dirp)
DIR *dirp;
int closedir(dirp)
DIR *dirp;
typical use:
DIR *dirp;
struct dirent *d;
char *name;
if ((dirp = opendir(name)) != (DIR *) NULL)
while ((d = readdir(dirp)) != (struct dirent *) NULL)
do_something_with_d (d);
if (closedir(dirp))
check_errno_right_now ();
else
check_errno_right_now ();
issues: is int 32-bit or 16-bit (note that DTA uses 16-bit ints in its
low-level structure)? will we support errno? zillions of (incompatible)
versions (like lharc :-). note that readdir(3) provides space for the
dirent so it gets wacked on subsequent calls.
i have more or less working (BSD-flavor) versions of these. it made porting
BSD ls(1) easy. only trouble is it is slow as molasses for large directories.
i think gulam's ls reads the FAT directly. it is great for recursive searches
(i think i have a traverse(3), if memory serves). i try to hide Fsfirst/next
as much as i can, though they do exist in MSDOS. not that both turbo C and
MSC on the PC support the *dir functions (i think) so applications port to
dos, too (if that matters). my versions use Fs*.
in general, i think sticking to posix as much as possible is what we really
want. that's why it was developed, after all: portability. speed is another
issue altogether. in fact, with these functions in place, it should be
possible to use either GEMDOS Fs* or direct reads of the FAT and still have
a portable program.
if u want, i can post these...
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP:
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra%c1yankee@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 14:38:46 GMT
From: aurs01!whitcomb@uunet.uu.net (Jonathan Whitcomb)
Subject: Of Mice and Many Codehead Upgrades
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
I am a "power user" of Codehead/LGF software. I use the Codehead
RAM disk with Pinhead and Codecopy to boot up directly from the
RAM disk...really fast.
This is great now that I have it working, but it took quite alot of
tinkering to get it going. At first I'd get several automatic
reboots before the thing settled down, random crashes and so forth.
It turned out that the main culprit was the Atari mouse accellerator
program. I think I tried using all three generations of the
program, and all of them interfered with the boot process. Finally
I just trashed them and got a Golden Image mouse (which tracks
twice as fast) and I've had no problems.
Occasionally I will still find that I've booted up in low resolution
for no apparent reason, but it doesn't bother me much because the
reboot is so fast.
The rest of my setup includes Hotwire!, Maxifile, Multidesk, and
Lookit and Popit. I use Hotwire!/Maxifile all the time, and even
boot up with it as my default desktop. The only time I ever exit
to the atari desktop is to change resolutions. Am I missing a
method that will let me do this in Hotwire? Or is there a
PD program that will do this for me? I don't like to exit to
the desktop after using Mark William's C Emacs, because Hotwire!
crashes when I re-enter it afterwards.
The Little Green File Selector complements the system well, but it
I have found that I don't use most of the feature of the last
umpteen versions.
I recently read that Codehead has just released major upgrades for
Hotwire and Maxifile, and are working on a Utilities upgrade. Has
anyone tried them? My gut feeling is to wait a few months more to
upgrade, because new versions seem to pop up every few weeks.
**********************************************************************
Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: <...!mcnc!aurgate!whitcomb>
(919) 850-6231 I'm not a software engineer,
Raleigh, NC but I play one on TV.
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 22:55:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!samsung!olivea!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!delt
a@arizona.edu (peter tragakis)
Subject: OKIDATA color Printer 4 sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
For sale:
Okidata OKI 20 color printer.
parallel interface and extra color
and black ribbons.
Asking for $150 or best offer.
e-mail this accnt or call 617-731-5088
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 09:50:53 GMT
From: mcsun!hp4nl!utrcu1!mi.eltn.utwente.nl!klamer@uunet.uu.net (Klamer Schutte)
Subject: Prolog for the ST
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
I am forwarding this message for Jens Kilian, kilian@cc.GaTech.edu.
In article <klamer.669316722@mi.eltn.utwente.nl> Klamer Schutte writes:
>When you care about execution speed, you don't want toy prolog.
>It is ssssssoooooo sssssslllllloooowwwww (get it ;-)
That's why it was called `TOY' Prolog by the original authors
(Kluzniak & Szpakowicz); it's also one of the things that made me
NOT change the name after I had completely rewritten most of the program.
If you want a really fast Prolog, try Prolog-68 (comp.binaries.atari.st,
volume 13, available on the Panarthea server). It is about 26 times faster
than TOU Prolog ST; on the nrev benchmark, it almost reaches 12 KLIPS.
If there is any faster Prolog for the ST, I would like to hear about it ...
The trouble with Prolog-68 is that it is a pre-release version; some major
features like assert/retract are still missing, and so is most of the
doumentation.
>Now i use SALIX prolog. It is a commercial (approx. DM 200)
>package from germany. Its fast and reasonably bug resitant.
>The gem interface is nice (It is in prolog and no to slow).
I never got to write a GEM interface for TOY Prolog, it would have been
impossible to uuusssseee iiitttt, anyway :-(.
Jens Kilian
--
** kilian@cc.GaTech.edu ** SnailMail: 200 Cityline Ave., Atlanta, GA 30308 ****
* "As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, so is contempt *
* to the contemptible." --William Blake *
** Fax: (404) 853-9378 *********** All addresses valid until June only ********
<<< End of forwarded message -- Klamer
--
Klamer Schutte
Faculty of electrical engineering -- University of Twente, The Netherlands
klamer@mi.eltn.utwente.nl
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 21:19:27 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio
-state.edu!linac!att!bu.edu!m2c!umvlsi!dime!process.com@arizona.edu (John
Snyders)
Subject: Prolog summary
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
A while ago I asked about Prolog for the ST.
The following summarizes the replies I received:
Toy Prolog:
I received an English Doc for Toy Prolog. I can send this to anyone who is
interested. Or perhaps someone can upload (or tell me how to) the doc to an
archive as I can not store it here for long. - Thanks to Robin Gape.
Some people have mentioned that Toy Prolog is not too good. But so far I have
found it useable and it has GEM support. It is more useable than xprolog but a
bit slow.
Some people have clued me in to Prolog-68 by Jens Kilian the author of Toy
Prolog. Jens writes:
I recently posted a new Prolog system for the ST to comp.binaries.atari.st.
It is called 'Prolog-68' and is somewhere in Volume 13 on the panarthea
server. It is about 26 times faster than TOY Prolog (12 KLIPS, honestly !)
and will be made as compatible as possible to the standard Prolog systems.
There are two disadvantages of the new system:
- It's not complete yet, and doesn't have TOY Prolog's GEM interface.
- The documentation isn't complete either, and it's in German again :-(
There is an English README file, but I simply don't feel like writing
a book (that's what the documentation will become) in a foreign
language.
You don't need to ask about new versions or more complete docs [...] I'm far
away from my ST at the moment ...
I have not looked at Prolog-68 yet but I probably will.
StonyBrook Prolog: Graham Higgins writes:
I have a port of StonyBrook Prolog. It's serious (needs a few Mb of space to
play in) but you're going to have to be careful about assert/retract 'cos it
ain't got a garbage collector yet. Documentation is extensive. Has a byte
compiler, too.
SALIX prolog: Klamer Schutte writes:
I prefered xprolog over toy prolog (10+ times faster).
But don't call not-existing predicates!
Now i use SALIX prolog. It is a commercial (approx. DM 200)
package from germany. Its fast and reasonably bug resitant.
The gem interface is nice (It is in prolog and no to slow).
He did not send any company contact information.
Lots of info from Singapore:
If you are serious about using prolog you should get
MPROLOG. M stands for modular as they have for Mac, IBM,
VAX/DEC mainframe and the file is trans- portable across all
plateform. I bought the Atari version for the School for
postgraduate research 2 years ago. The price at the time
thet I bought are: US$3000 or $5000 for VAX/DEC, US$1000 for
IBM & MAC and US$800 for Atari. I can not remember the exact
price but you may write to Logicware Inc, 5915 Airport Rd.
Suit 200 Toronto, Canada L4V 1T1 for their current prices.
The prog ram come with 2 Disks and 1000 pages (1-3/4" Thick
A4 size) Manual. We have not use the program yet as I still
could not find any Postgraduate candidate to take up my AI
research project yet. Reading about this program in AI
magazine make me decided on MPROLOG. For cheaper and less
serious work you can also run Turbo Prolog (US$99) on Atari
with IBM emulator. I have tried it with PC-Ditto (slow
sofware version) it is toralabled. Now I have both PC-DITTO
II and Super charger with 8087 co-pro but did not have
chance to retry the Turbo Prolog again. I also have
ExperProlog for Mac which may work with Atari/Spectre but
again have not try out yet. University of Sydney using Arity
Prolog with their IBM computers and Quintus Prolog with SUN
Super Micro. Arity Prolog may also work with
Atari/Supercharger/PC-Speed but I do not have access to
Arity Prolog myself. Hope this helps,
I have not yet contacted Logicware regarding MPROLOG.
I will post a follow up with any new information I discover.
Thanks to everyone who responded.
- John Snyders
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 14:27:16 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!snorkelwacker.mit.edu!bu.edu!bucsf.bu.edu!delt
a@arizona.edu (peter tragakis)
Subject: Supra 2400 Baud modem 4 sale
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
For sale : Supra 2400 baud modem with power supply and cable to
connect to an Atari (25 to 25 pin cable) or to an IBM
(25 to 9 pin cable).
Asking for $90 or best offer.
e-mail this account or call (617) 731-5088
------------------------------
Date: 19 Mar 91 19:48:09 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!bionet!agate!bigba
ng.Berkeley.EDU!kawakami@arizona.edu (John Kawakami)
Subject: WOW!!!!
To: Info-Atari16@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU
In response to Mark Choi:
I think the only thing an ST notebook would need is a backlit screen and
a suite of software to transfer/convert files from PC and Mac programs to
ST programs and vice versa.
The essence of a portable computer is portability. Adding features like
color monitor support seems extraneous. After all, how likely is it that
one would carry the computer to an unoccupied (or occupied) SC1224 or SM124?
A floppy is a thorny question. It's probably necessary because of market
demands, but I'm sure many would do without.
Perhaps one thing to consider is a space for two Mac ROMs. And a contract
with Dave Small.
Current PC notebooks are sold primarily to current computer owners. They
run at $1500 up past $3000. If Atari wants to succeed, they will have to
tap both the current Atari market and the PC market.
John Kawakami kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu
Amateur Crank! ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
