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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 190
Info-Atari16 Digest Thu, 4 Apr 91 Volume 91 : Issue 190
Today's Topics:
DigiComposer (was: Re: NoiseTracker v1.5)
Does Lode Runner game exist for the ST?
Expansion cases - Compatibility with hardware?
Flicker Palettes [was Re: Graphics on the STE...]
GCR + 1.44Mb floppies
GIF (Was: Something about STE's)
Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking... (4 msgs)
NET Appreciation !!
Sideline Software
Spectre GCR Mac->DeskJet Printer Driver Needed
sundog
Telecom program help needed (3 msgs)
Two New Computer Announcements - CeBIT
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 17:56:22 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!sunic!
kullmar!pkmab!hexagon!daniel@arizona.edu (Daniel Deimert)
Subject: DigiComposer (was: Re: NoiseTracker v1.5)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I have recently came across a new PD soundtracker from Sweden, called
"Digi Composer". It is supposed to be ProTracker (Amiga) compatible,
and it makes use of the STe PCM soundchip as well as stereo output (even
on a normal ST w/ some kind of DA converter). It supports OverScan
which is very nice when editing.
ALSO NOTE: It is TT compatible and timer driven. No more 50/60 Hz
problems!
If someone would like to upload this to atari.archive, I will be happy
to send you a disk. I don't have ftp access myself.
[ In your article, you wrote: ]
)Unlike Audio Sculpture, it [NT 1.5 -dd] allows you to save modules.
I don't know if you knew this, but the version of A.S. on atari.archive
is only a demo of a commersial product. Of course that version will
allow you to save modules as well. A.S. has far better sound quality
than any other soundtracker on the ST I know of, and it can play a lot
of modules NT and DC will start bombing on.
--
Daniel Deimert, daniel@hexagon.se or ...!sunic!kullmar!pkmab!hexagon!daniel
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 20:57:04 GMT
From: viusys!uxui!unislc!bj@uunet.uu.net (Bruce Jones)
Subject: Does Lode Runner game exist for the ST?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The subject says it all. I would like to get Lode Runner for the
ST if it exists. If yes, does someone want to sell their copy? If
the answer is no are there any similar type games that you can recommend?
Thanks,
Bruce Jones
Unisys
Salt Lake City, Utah unislc!bj@cs.utah.edu
(801) 594-7046
--
Unisys
Salt Lake City, Utah unislc!bj@cs.utah.edu
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 00:26:34 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!opal!unido!horga!nathan!ue@uunet.uu.net (Udo Erdelhoff)
Subject: Expansion cases - Compatibility with hardware?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1243@exua.exeter.ac.uk> SAMcinty@exua.exeter.ac.uk
(Scott McIntyre) writes:
>
> My question is: With the high number of graphics cards and add on
> processors available for the Mega, would it be possible to invest in
> one of these tower cases, then get the add on card and have it work,
> even though the machine is still a 520 or 1040?
I'm afraid it won't be as easy as you've said it. Most graphics cards need
to be connected to the internal connector of the Mega ST (so-called 'Mega-bus')
and 520 and 1040 do not have this connector. You'll need to build this
connector yourself...
/s/
--
Udo Erdelhoff smart: ue@nathan.ruhr.de
Am Westheck 170 Fido: Udo Erdelhoff on 2:245/52.1
W-4600 Dortmund 12 (FRG) Maus: Udo Erdelhoff @ DO
Please keep your replies short - I have to pay for recieving mail
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 05:25:19 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!decuac!haven!wam.umd.edu!dmb@decwrl.dec.com (David M. Baggett)
Subject: Flicker Palettes [was Re: Graphics on the STE...]
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov (Howard Chu) writes (in response to John Logajan):
>>My guess would be that flicker and pseudo-shadow movements would be
>>quite severe. So how does it really look?
>
>Try it and see, eh?
>entire 256 color palette of the PC w/VGA. Try other setups....
I did try out the Fractint you posted ages ago that used flicker
palettes, and it didn't flicker too badly. I bet some of the
combinations you'll get with the two palettes you posted are pretty
terrible though.
I've played with this technique several different times and have never
really been satisfied with the results. I'll load up my animation
editor and try out color combinations at 60Hz -- some combinations seem
to "fuse," i.e,. blend perfectly. In these cases you simply cannot
tell that it's swapping between two colors. In many other cases,
however, the colors don't fuse at all, and you get horrible,
headache-inducing flicker. Mixing 000 and 777, e.g., is totally
unbearable, at least on my monitor. I made a little demo that just
mixed all combinations of colors in the default NEOchome palette. I
got 256 colors on the screen. Yup. But you had to look at it from
across the room, with the contrast all the way down, and squinting, or
your eyes would turn to jelly and ooze out your head. (Neither was a
pretty sight.) :-)
I tried to come up with a formula or set of criteria that would predict
which colors would fuse and which would flicker, but never could see a
pattern. I did notice that some combinations look OK if the "blending
area" is small, but not when you swap, e.g., two solid-color screens.
In general, the larger the area, the more flicker. I also wonder if
it's monitor-dependent.
Anybody know how to algorithmically pick colors that always blend?
Given such an algorithm, one could write a program to find an "optimal
flicker palette" -- one where the most combinations possible were
rock-solid. This would yield more colors on the screen at once with
little flicker and not much CPU overhead. As Howard pointed out, such
a screen mode would be superior to Spectrum 512 because each of the N
different colors could appear anywhere on the screen. You could
probably even do interactive animation (read: GAMES) with this mode,
although all your raster operations would be only half as fast.
Even if you couldn't find two palettes in which all combinations
blended, finding enough to get 32 solid combinations would be better
than what we've got now: 16 colors, Spectrum 512, or brain-melting
flicker.
Maybe if we assigned everyone reading this newsgroup a color combination
to try and compiled the results... (Heck, there are only 262,144 different
combinations. Aren't there supposed to be tens of thousands reading
this group? Well then, that's only, what, 10-20 per person? I'll start
the ball rolling with 000 and 001...)
Dave Baggett
dmb%wam.umd.edu@uunet.uu.net
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 22:14:05 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!mips!wrdis01!nstn.ns.ca!bonnie.concordia.c
a!IRO.UMontreal.CA!matrox!uvm-gen!kira!news@arizona.edu (Robert B. Pegram)
Subject: GCR + 1.44Mb floppies
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
gjh@hplb.hpl.hp.com (Graham Higgins) asks:
> Anyone know whether Spectre GCR handles the 1.44Mb floppy ugrade?
The Dream Park chip swap that replaces the WD1772 with another
controller? No, not yet. Dave Small would have to make the drives
slow back down to 300 RPMS. The hack published here by hase (Hartmut
Semken)? I am not sure about it, but it might work, since the disk
speed remains at 300 RPM. I wouldn't bet the farm on it though 8-).
In any case, Spectre GCR 3.0 doesn't support the high density mode,
even if it could read GCR disks in such a system.
Hope this helps,
Bob Pegram
pegram@griffin.uvm.edu
or
!uvm-gen!pegram
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 03:42:06 GMT
From: noao!ncar!unmvax!nmt.edu!eahsnsr@arizona.edu (Eric A. Hobbs)
Subject: GIF (Was: Something about STE's)
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
in regards to loss of detail when displaying GIFS larger
than 320 x 200 :
Why not use the QuickGIF viewers available at atari.archive? There
are two viewers (B&W and Color). They are both very small .TTP
files, they're faster than other viewers I have seen, and you don't
lose much, if any, picture detail. They both create a virtual screen
that you can scroll around. They are still limited to 16 colors. To
get around the 8 greyscale handicap, the B&W viewer allows you to select
from one of 6 palettes that introduce the 8 shades of another color on
top of the 8 pure grey shades. While this introduces a false color into
the picture, the results are usually very good.
Just my $0.025 cents worth.
----------------
Eric A. HOBBS!
eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 00:43:49 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!uwm.edu!bionet!agate!stew.ssl.berkel
ey.edu!korpela@arizona.edu (Eric J. Korpela)
Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Apr3.223921.16258@jato.jpl.nasa.gov> hyc@hanauma.jpl.nasa.gov
(Howard Chu) writes:
> This is what
>you get on a PC with VGA, 3 bits for one color, 3 bits for another,
>and 2 bits for the last. I don't recall what the 2-bit color on VGA is.
>At any rate, it covers the full spectrum; there are no color gaps or
>missing or overemphasized colors in this scheme.
Are you sure this is how things are done on the VGA? I though that
VGA has a palette of 256 colors out of 32K total. In that case the
number of bits assigned to each color is really up to the programmer.
32K total colors is 15 bits which turns into 5 bits each of R, G, and
B. By appropriate palette choices a programmer could choose to have
5 bits of R and 3 bits of B represented in the byte allocated to each
pixel (if he/she so desires.) Because each palette lookup table entry
is independent I would think that it would be possible to use 2.67 bits
per color rather than the 3,3,2 method you describe. (I, of course, don't
mean that literally, but it should be possible to obtain a more even
distribution across the spectrum than is possible with the 3,3,2 method).
Then again, I don't know all that much about VGA graphics, so I may
be wrong about this.
/\ korpela@ssl.berkeley.edu Internet
/__\ rioch BKYAST::KORPELA 42215::KORPELA DecNet
/ \ of Chaos korpela%bkyast@ucbjade Bitnet
(_____________________ <aka Eric Korpela>
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 23:40:58 GMT
From: fernwood!portal!cup.portal.com!Bob_BobR_Retelle@decwrl.dec.com
Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
-----
Ed Krimen writes:
>logajan@ns.network.com (John Logajan) writes:
>- >4) Is it possible to get Gif images to look remotely nice on a STE?
>-
>- No. Even ST's in color mode have only 8 shades of grey, and the
>- STe's have only 16. In high-res mode you just got on or off.
>I must disagree -- assuming by 'remotely nice' we mean as good as
>VGA. One may convert GIFs to Spectrum 512 format. ...
Unfortunately, number of colors is only part of the story.. Spectrum 512,
while allowing up to 512 colors on the screen, is still limited to low
resolution... converting a VGA picture to 320 x 200 resolution usually
results in severe loss of detail, and distortion of the aspect ratio of
the original. (i.e., pictures come out fuzzy and squashed)
DigiSpec does a fairly good job of conversion, but allows no control over
aspec ratio... picture of people come out short and fat usually.. the
GIF converters that DO allow control over aspect ratio usually end up
reducing the picture so much that an extreme amount of detail is lost..
The only GIFs that convert reasonably well to the ST are ones which were
320 x 200 to begin with... and there aren't very many of those any more..
BobR
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 20:27:30 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!msi.umn.edu!no
c.MR.NET!ns!ns!logajan@arizona.edu (John Logajan)
Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>>one frame-pixel in one of 8 possible levels. Or one at level 6 and
>>the other in 7 possible levels, etc .. 8+7+6+5+4+3+2+1=36 levels per
>>color, or 46,656 possible colors to choose from.
>
>Oops, many of those combinations are redundant upon averaging.
>So you really have less.
Far less! You get 15 non-redundant intensity levels by swapping
two frames. Thus giving you 3375 colors (a subset of which is
the 15 shades of grey) to choose from, but you still can only
pick from 32 pallette cells per scan line (or zone.)
--
- John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
- logajan@ns.network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 06:12:21 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!caen!news.cs.indiana.edu!msi.umn.edu!no
c.MR.NET!ns!ns!logajan@arizona.edu (John Logajan)
Subject: Graphics on the STE - v. generally speaking...
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <40852@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>Spectrum 512, while allowing up to 512 colors on the screen,
The Spectrum 512 color claim is exceedingly misleading, by the way.
Each scan line is broken up into three parts, and each section can
use only 16 colors. Or 48 color changes across the screen. A true
random 256 color machine can have 256 different colors across one line.
A further problem is intensity quantumization. Suppose I have a color
with R=5, G=5 and B=1. If I take it down one level, I have R=4, G=4 and
B=0!!!! I can't get a lighter shade of the same color!!
--
- John Logajan @ Network Systems; 7600 Boone Ave; Brooklyn Park, MN 55428
- logajan@ns.network.com, 612-424-4888, Fax 612-424-2853
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 01:33:10 GMT
From: hpl-opus!hpnmdla!hpsad!smithj@hplabs.hp.com (Jim Smith)
Subject: NET Appreciation !!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
objective observations
\_______ ___________/
\/
net.oxymoron ?
63 :-)
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 10:17:29 GMT
From: ncrcom!usglnk!ncrlnk!ncr-mpd!kentd@uunet.uu.net (Kent.Dalton)
Subject: Sideline Software
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>>>>> On 2 Apr 91 03:27:12 GMT, jcksnsr@nmt.edu (Admiral JC) said:
> Hey, quickie question... has anyone out there had any dealings with
> Sideline Software in Florida... I ran across their add in the Mar. Current
I ordered Anarchy and Shoot 'em up Construction Kit about three to four
weeks ago at their 14.95 price. The only problem I had was they
accidently shipped it COD when I'd asked for credit card purchase... I
called to make sure I wouldn't be charged for both, they said that there
might have been some problem with card #, etc and to call if my card was
charged. I got my credit card bill the other day and they didn't charge
my card. Response time was fairly quick, about 1.5wks from FLA->CO.
The worst thing, though, was that their specials go quick! I had a list
of about 6 arcade games from their 14.95 specials I'd been wanting for a
while and Anarchy was the only one they had left... (If anyone has a
used Black Tiger or Strider for sale let me know!)
> Notes and really liked the prices. Really liked their prices, really, really
> low... perhaps $20 below nearest competitors on some stuff. Maybe too low.
> Does this company actually exist and do they actually sell what they
> advetise at what they advertise (14.95 for a game that everyone else has for
> about $32.95 or more).
I'm not sure how they get prices like that... When I visit my family in
Columbus, Ohio I go to the local(!) atari/amiga/ibm shop. They
buy/sell/trade and have great prices on used STuff (carry UK ST mags
too). The scary thing is (and here comes my point) they have some kind
of shrink-wrap capability because they can shrink-wrap the used stuff.
Although it is marked, they could easily represent used software as new.
I'm not saying Sideline does this, but it is one way to get good prices.
Here're examples from the used 'deals' I got last visit to the shop in
Columbus: $10 Drakkhen, $6 Battletech, $4 Iron Lord.
The volume of business this store does is amazing. The Atari/Amiga markets
in central OH must be thriving.
--
/**************************************************************************/
/* Kent Dalton * EMail: Kent.Dalton@FtCollins.NCR.COM */
/* NCR Microelectronics * CIS: 72320,3306 */
/* 2001 Danfield Ct. MS470A * */
/* Fort Collins, Colorado 80525 * (303) 223-5100 X-319 */
/**************************************************************************/
Fortune:
Hartley's Second Law:
Never sleep with anyone crazier than yourself.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 06:48:20 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!agate!usenet@arizona.edu (John
Kawakami)
Subject: Spectre GCR Mac->DeskJet Printer Driver Needed
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
The subject line says it all. I have a DJ 500 and I need a driver for it.
The MacPrint package seems to be what I need, but it has a serial -> parallel
converter that I don't need. What do I do!?!
In a related vein, are deskjet graphics laserjet compaitble and vice versa?
John Kawakami kawakami@ocf.berkeley.edu
Amateur Crank! ucbvax!ocf.berkeley.edu!kawakami
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 16:04:15 GMT
From: zephyr.ens.tek.com!tekgen!boblu@beaver.cs.washington.edu (Robert Luneski)
Subject: sundog
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <4450001@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM> jg@hpcvca.CV.HP.COM (Joe Gilray) writes:
>
>What are the system requirements for Sundog? RAM? color? Etc.
>
Sundog runs on any color ST. It is one of the true lost classics.
A really great game!
____________________________________________________________________________
Bob Luneski boblu@tekgen.BV.TEK.COM Genie: B.LUNESKI1
The opinions expressed herein are my own and in no way reflect the
opinions of Tektronix, Inc.
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 01:04:44 GMT
From: ccncsu!lamar!sytang@purdue.edu (Shoou-yu tang)
Subject: Telecom program help needed
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In regard the question of some one said the uniterm.tar.Z has date of Apr.3:
Yes, it's Apr. 3 but not 1991, it's Apr.3 1990. So it's the 2.0e version.
Is there any translated doc for rufus?
Tang
sytang@lamar.colostate.edu
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 01:09:45 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umich!termi
nator!terminator.cc.umich.edu!weiner@arizona.edu (Jeff Weiner)
Subject: Telecom program help needed
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Apr3.220529.1164@menudo.uh.edu> rcte2p@menudo.uh.edu (Paul S.
Sears) writes:
>BTW, I saw that uniterm.tar.Z was dated April 3 (today!) - is this a new
>version? or did someone just re-upload it?
>
Look a bit closer, April 3, 1990 is the timestamp.
Perhaps we should have some sort of soiree, to celebrate the year
anniversary of the last uniterm update.... :)
>Later!
>
>--
>Paul Sears The Univ. of Houston |"The greater an individual's power
>Student of the College of Technology | over others, the greater the evil that
>RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu *** | might possibly originate with him."
>RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
weiner
--
Jeff Weiner weiner@terminator.cc.umich.edu Jeff_Weiner@ub.cc.umich.edu
Mail Dennis_Devine@ub.cc.umich.edu and ask if he'd like a White Castle
Atari.archive.umich.edu Caretaker||194M and climbin'|| "So like take off eh?"
------------------------------
Date: 4 Apr 91 05:33:48 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!lavaca.uh.edu!menudo.uh.edu!rcte2p@arizona.
edu (Paul S. Sears)
Subject: Telecom program help needed
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
sytang@lamar.ColoState.EDU (Shoou-yu tang) boldy writes in article
<13976@ccncsu.ColoState.EDU>
>
> In regard the question of some one said the uniterm.tar.Z has date of Apr.3:
> Yes, it's Apr. 3 but not 1991, it's Apr.3 1990. So it's the 2.0e version.
> Is there any translated doc for rufus?
> Tang
> sytang@lamar.colostate.edu
Er, yeah... I see that it is April 1990.... sheesh... I better get out
of the past quick, eh?
Note: This is the second posting in which I was mis-informed... I
think I will fade back into net.nowhere for awhile... :-)
--
Paul Sears The Univ. of Houston |"The greater an individual's power
Student of the College of Technology | over others, the greater the evil that
RCTE2P@Jetson.uh.edu *** | might possibly originate with him."
RCTE2P@menudo.uh.edu * * * | - PROPAGANDA, from A Secret Wish (CD)
------------------------------
Date: 3 Apr 91 21:11:54 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!snorke
lwacker.mit.edu!thunder.mcrcim.mcgill.edu!bonnie.concordia.ca!IRO.UMontreal.CA!
matrox!uvm-gen!kira!news@arizona. (Robert B. Pegram)
Subject: Two New Computer Announcements - CeBIT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
From article <1991Mar29.150606.11735@chinet.chi.il.us>, by saj@chinet.chi.il.us
(Stephen Jacobs):
> How's this: a combination power brick, floppy drive and external video
> adapter, that plugs in to the expansion connector?
I second that idea 8-), and it should quiet those of us who tend to confuse
light and heavy laptops with each other.
> Don't anyone get too excited; these are just some ramblings. And by the way,
> who's the magic person who has to say 'this will happen' and make these
> officially-announced future Atari products? And has that person said that?
> Steve saj@chinet.chi.il.us
Sounds like they 're committed to them or they wouldn't show them.
Hope the weight is really low (what was it again?) and the price isn't
too high. 8-)
Bob Pegram
pegram@griffin.uvm.edu
or
!uvm-gen!pegram
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
