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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 173
Info-Atari16 Digest Wed, 27 Mar 91 Volume 91 : Issue 173
Today's Topics:
1 year warranty and stuff
2.5 million ST's sold worldwide!
amiga emulators
Art Program Request Summary
Mercury
Metafile --> DVI
Printer Drivers
Problem using HP II P laserprinter with 1040 ST
STE DMA bug
The TT and GCR
Thoughts on DC Utilities (2 msgs)
tn3270 emulator request
TT REVIEW
union demo 2
Unix on the TT
Xlisp and windows
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 11:16:22 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbel
l.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: 1 year warranty and stuff
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In-Reply-To: message from Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
never fom the us mogals
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 91 09:22:47 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: 2.5 million ST's sold worldwide!
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <669369942.7@egsgate.Fidonet.Org> writes:
>I just heard that ST Format magazine (great U.K. magazine) ...
Yeah, great if you normally read Kleenex, Dixel or even Izal.
>... stated that Atari U.K. announced 2.5 million ST's sold worldwide!
The very same Atari UK that said the TT would be 1200 quid.
> This is great. Last time I heard it was at 1.9 to 2 million.
Well the number can only go up can't it. You can't unsell an ST. My guess
would be that sales are generally on a decline.
>S.S.
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 million!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 11:16:23 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbel
l.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: amiga emulators
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
anybody seen the amiga emulators or know where i can get it?
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 26 Mar 91 20:02:48 GMT
From: aurs01!whitcomb@uunet.uu.net (Jonathan Whitcomb)
Subject: Art Program Request Summary
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
My thanks to the folks who responded to my request for advice on
art programs. Here is a summary:
From: Conan the Barbarian <uunet!cs.toronto.edu!johns> (John Schmitt)
-My recommendation goes to Deluxe Paint ST. Supports STe colours
-and has "Two and a half D" (2.5D) animations capabilities via tweening. As
-a paint programs it is very good. As an animation tool, it is somewhat
-limited. I am not an artist, but I find myself firing this up and playing
-and occasionally keeping something. I like it a lot.
From: schultzd@sierra.egr.msu.edu (David Schultz)
-ART ST, the Shareware art program that gets bundled with QuickST is
-reasonable. It will save in a couple different formats. Not sure
-where it can be gotten. I got mine with QuickST.
From: uunet!ihlpf.att.com!hofmann (James R Hofmann)
-You should consider Easydraw from Migraph. It has a number of companion
-programs such as Touchup and Easy Tools.
From: boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu (Mickey Boyd)
-I would highly recommend Degas Elite. I use it constantly in combination with
-PicSwitch to edit clipart for Pagestream. It has a nice user interface, and
-does not crash. I do not know if it works on the STE or the TT. Now, I don't
-really do much in color with it. If you are interested in actually drawing,
-you may wish to give Spectrum 512 a try. Also, I think some really famous
-Amiga paint program is now produced for the ST (Deluxe Paint?).
Wow! Four replies, and six different recommendations! Is Degas Elite
still available? Does anyone else care to add to this list? I don't
care if the program is PD or commercial, but I probably don't want to
pay more than 50-60 bucks.
Another note: I just got the ST Format book on the ST, and it had two
disks of PD software. Included was a version of Neochrome that was
newer than mine (V0.5?), but had no version number listed. It added
features such as circles and polygons, and allowed you to cut and
paste blocks, but I had the program crash a couple of times in the
5 hours that I used it. I thought that Neochrome was a commercial
product (after V1.0)...what's the deal here?
**********************************************************************
Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: <whitcomb%aurgate@mcnc.org>
Alcatel Network Systems, Raleigh, NC Delphi: JBWHIT
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 00:10:57 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-st
ate.edu!ohstpy!miavx1!miamiu!jc5lsanu@arizona.edu
Subject: Mercury
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Could someone please E-mail me the path to find Mercury on atari.archive
or some other site along with it's path. I have looked through atari.archive
and come up empty. PLEASE help.
-=
*** jc5lsanu@miamiu.bitnet | |
*** jmcrider@miavx1.bitnet | You are the epicenter of my |
| nothingness. |
JC Bear | - Anon |
-=
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 15:13:12 GMT
From: timbuk!marc@uunet.uu.net (Marc Bouron)
Subject: Metafile --> DVI
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Mar26.051302.6007@nmt.edu>, eahsnsr@nmt.edu (Eric A. Hobbs)
writes:
|>
|> While I'm on the subject of conversion programs, is there an ST
|> program that will convert from Metafiles to DVI?
|>
|>
|> -------------
|> Eric A. HOBBS!
|> eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
This solution may be a little `round the houses', but you could use the GEM2PS
utility to convert the metafile to PostScript, and use dvips to convert your
DVI file. Of course, this only works if you have access to a PostScript
printer... :-)
GEM2PS can be found on atari.archive (I think) and dvips can be found virtually
ANYWHERE! I've not tested GEM2PS, but I use dvips every day.
[M][a][r][c]
################################################################################
# # marc@sequoia.cray.com # . . #
# Marc CR Bouron # M.Bouron@cray.co.uk (ARPA) # _|\ /|_ #
# Cray Research (UK) Ltd. # M.Bouron@crayuk.uucp (DOMAIN) # (_|_V_|_) #
# +44 344 485971 x2208 # M.Bouron@uk.co.cray (JANET) # | | #
# # ...!ukc!crayuk!M.Bouron (UUCP) # #
################################################################################
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 91 10:48:21 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!stl!iclbra!icl!srs@uunet.uu.net (Steve Strong)
Subject: Printer Drivers
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi There,
I've obtained an old Olympus printer that I want to get working on my
parents' ST. They mainly use FW+. Could some kind soul out there mail me
the format of the printer drivers in FW+, and maybe some tips on how to
write them. BTW, the printer is a daisy whll if that makes any difference.
Replies by email please, since I don't suppose many other people are
interested. I'll forward replies to anyone who would like the info.
Thanks,
Steve- srs@uk.co.stc.icl.oasis
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 15:19:31 GMT
From: pa.dec.com!shlump.nac.dec.com!kboeng.enet.dec.com!heiden@decwrl.dec.com
(Matthias Heiden)
Subject: Problem using HP II P laserprinter with 1040 ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
While trying to print to an HP II P laserprinter using the parallel
port I'm running into two annoying errors:
1. The printer is only recognised by the system if:
first the printer is powered on and then the
system is booted. This wouldn't be a problem,
but
2. after some time without printing anything (around
20 - 30 minutes), the system just stops running.
System needs a reboot to come into live again.
Does anybody made similar experience and found solutions to
these problems ? My setup is:
1040 ST with 2.5 Mbyte , TOS 1.4, Neodesk 3.0,
SH204 and SM124
Any help is appreciated. Matthias Heiden
--
digital equipment GmbH heiden@kbomfg.enet.dec.com
advanced system process development
Sudetenstrasse 5
W - 8950 Kaufbeuren (Germany) work: +49 8341 913392
--
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 15:11:59 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!trwind!venice!sleepy!jharres@arizona.edu
Subject: STE DMA bug
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well I finally got bit last night. The wonderful STE DMA (read harddrive)
bug got me. After doing a couple hours of work on the computer with probably
25 or so disk accesses it gave me the "somethings wrong with the disk drive"
alert. I then could no longer see the partitions even though the hard disk
driver would run. I have an ICD plus host adapter and a syquest drive.
Does this error (the STE DMA problem) always hammer the disk in the same
manner? If so, what is necessary to go and recover the drive. No I didn't
have a backup as I've had it only 2 weeks and wasn't sure if I liked my
layout yet. (Lesson learned though :-( ).
I'll be contacting Atari about a warranty problem in the mean time.
Thanks for any help.
Jim Harres jharres@doc.bmd.trw.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 1991 08:52:00 -0500
From: CSULLOGG@CRL.AECL.CA
Subject: The TT and GCR
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
One netter asked about the TT and GCR ver 3. I have it and it works OK.
However, it seems that some MegaSTEs and some TTs have a different
cartridge port configuration and many cartridges, like GCR, will not work
on them. Case in point, I had to send a Mega4STE back to Atari to get it
fixed to work with GCR. My TT, on the other hand, worked with GCR out of
the box. But, but, but... GCR does not support the internal TT hard disk
yet and the only way I could run GCR was with an old SH204 drive attached.
Dave Small is supposed to correct this with version 3.1 (Hey Dave, PLEASE
release 3.1 a.s.a.p.).
I kept crashing my TT when I changed resolutions and finally I have found
out why. I run Neoload from the AUTO folder just in case I want to run
NeoDesk; now that I do not run Neoload, no more crashes.
Does anyone have a list of VME cards that I can use on the TT. Atari Canada
said there was a frame grabber, GENLOCK and a 24bit graphics board but did
not give any more detail.
Finally, some 486 enthusiast flamed the TT; for example, he quoted the
number of colours and the resolution that the 486 supports. Hey bud, a PC
does not come with any graphics card, you have to specify what graphics
card you want in the system. On the other hand, the TT supports 6 video
modes out of the box (including 1280x960) and anyone who wants a zillion
colours at megapixel screen size can add a graphics card later. Lesson to
be learned - compare apples with apples (pun intended). My TT can run Mac
software more than 10 times the speed of a Mac, can your 486 box do that
by simply plugging in a Spectre GCR cartridge? Me thinks not! A 486 is
required to make Windows as fast to use as the GUI on an 8 MHz Mac or
Atari; wow have PCs ever vaulted into the GUI forefront!
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 11:59:48 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ukma!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!rpi!uupsi!rodan.acs.syr.ed
u!ggreenbe@arizona.edu (Gerald Greenberg)
Subject: Thoughts on DC Utilities
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Mar26.193248.6395@netcom.COM> kron@netcom.COM (Kenneth Kron)
writes:
>From article <59676@aurs01.UUCP>, by whitcomb@aurs01.uucp (Jonathan Whitcomb):
>> [[ Details deleted ]]
>> I like the package in general. My main complaint is that DC makes
>> assumptions about how you will be using their software, and don't
>> give you alternative options. They also seem oblivious of how
>> their products work with other common programs (Pinhead, LGSelector,
>> Hotwire!, NeoDesk, etc.). Maybe I've just been spoiled by Codehead
>> products, which are fantastic in this regard. I also wouldn't expect
>> bugs and unpredictable behavior from a second generation product.
>> I recommend it for DC Squish, though.
>> Anyone else have any reflections on DC products?
>I agree with you 100% Jonathan. I have been thinking about writing
>something simular thanks for saving me the time. I bought DC Destop and
>while the individual programs are all very nice they just aren't
>configurable enough and I find my self having to reference the manual too
>often. The situation is just bad enough that while I haven't written
>them off I will be hesitant to buy anything else from them.
>> -Jonathan the verbose
>> **********************************************************************
>> Jonathan Whitcomb UUCP: <whitcomb%aurgate@mcnc.org>
>Kenneth Kron kron@netcom.COM
Well, I thought I'd give a posititive side to this line of
comments. I've been using DC packages back from the days when
they were shareware and not commercial...maybe even before
that, that is, when Vedermann was writing his own programs,
and I must say I really like them. I guess I should like
them, otherwise why would I be using them? In any event,
using them has so much improved my ST that on those rare times
I boot up from a floppy (as opposed to my hard disk), it is
like a totally different machine...so much less fun to use. I
can't imagin ever doing without the things afforded by the
packages.
As for the configurability. Sure, when I first got DCDesktop
I had to go through the manual to find out how certain things
worked...but I don't see anything wrong with that considering
the number of options available. Also, the people at DC have
always been willing to answer any problems concerning any
aspect of the program...in fact, they have an internet
address!
Finally, the first post made some comments about DCExtract...I
find this one of the most used programs I have. As for it
being unintuitive, I have no problem at all with it now...If I
had problems with it in the beginning, I've totally forgotten
about them now.
--Gerry
ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu
Disclaimer: I have no connection with DC other than being a
long time user, who hopes they continue to improve their
current products and develop new ones.
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 13:25:32 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!wuarchive!gumby!wmu-coyote!dodgson@arizona.edu
(Harry Dodgson)
Subject: Thoughts on DC Utilities
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <59677@aurs01.UUCP>, whitcomb@aurs01.UUCP (Jonathan Whitcomb) writes:
[lots of stuff deleted]
- -My main problem with DC Squish is that sometimes when
- -I unsquish a program, it leaves a squished copy in the folder
- -that I can't delete. I guess it sets a read only bit, but I
- -can't seem to clear it.
> DC claims this is a TOS problem (I use V1.2). What happens is
> that TOS leaves two files in the folder with the same name (a
> Squished and unSquished version), and then gets confused when
> trying to erase one. The solution is to rename one, and then
> reboot. Then you can get rid of the offending file. A bit of a
> hassle. DC says that they will consider circumventing the problem
> in the next version by using their own delete routine instead of
> relying on TOS.
The usual way of accomplishing this is to create your output
file under another name, like compress.$$$ (standard CPM tmp file).
Then when you close it, you delete the original and rename the temp file
to the original name. Not a difficult task, and does not force major
program revisions / programming kludges.
[more stuff deleted]
- P.S. Last week the on the Delphi Atari weekly conference we decided
- a great hack would be to have the pink Energizer bunny come booming
- across the monitor from time to time with a digitized voice saying
- "...still going...". Sometimes across the bottom, sometimes across
- the top or up and down the sides. A DC program of the week, perhaps?
Have they seen NetBunny for the Mac? Does a nice job of this on networked
Mac-IIs (with sys 6.05 and 32-bit Qdraw only). Goes around to each of the
machines in turn, banging on the drum. Makes it nearly impossible to get
anything done. And you gotta reboot to stop it.
--
Harry Dodgson Jr. | Internet dodgson@sol.cs.wmich.edu -(35.132.4.2)-
Western Michigan University | UUCP ...uunet!sharkey!wmichgw!wmu-cs!dodgson
Computer Science Department | Voice (616) 387-5803
Kalamazoo, MI 49008 | Office 4420 Dunbar Hall
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Mar 91 11:06:51 MEZ
From: "Dr. Jens Schleusener" <RZ7Y%DLRVMGO.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: tn3270 emulator request
To: info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hello,
I am not a ATARIst, but I have an ATARIstical problem:
We have IBM TCP/IP and KNET running on our production systems (VM, MVS)
and want to take KNET off the system. That means the lost of the
3270 emulator that KNET offers on the host for all workstations
with "simple" TELNET support e.g. the ATARI ST and IRIS workstations.
I'm searching for a public domain or commercial product providing
a full screen 3270 terminal emulation (via TCP/IP and Ethernet or coax)
for the ATARI ST.
Thanks in advance
Jens Schleusener
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 01:38:39 GMT
From: fernwood!portal!atari!apratt@decwrl.dec.com (Allan Pratt)
Subject: TT REVIEW
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
>D.B.Barratt@newcastle.ac.uk (Dave Barratt) writes:
>>The following is more or less the complete review of the TT by
>>Richard Monteiro, which appeared in the April edition of Computer
>>Shopper (UK edition). (Article 359 lines in total)
rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander) writes:
>I think that's a 256-byte rather than a 256 Kbyte D-cache [...]
Right.
>About the serial ports: how many _uarts_ does this machine have, as
>opposed to how many connectors appear on the back?
Here's the deal. There is a 68901, just like the ST, and that goes to the
"Modem 1" connector on the back. It has all the signals that the ST has,
in all the same places. It's your primary compatibility-mode port.
There's a 8530, which contains two channels. One of those channels,
Channel A, goes to EITHER the LAN connector on the side OR the port labeled
"Serial 2" on the back. It's got all of the modem control signals, except
Ring Indicator. ("All" is TX, RX, CD, DTR, DSR, RTS, CTS, RI, and ground
("earth" to you Brits :-).) You select which connector Channel A actually
goes to in software. You can't use both the LAN port and "Serial 2" at the
same time.
Channel B of the 8530 goes to the port on the back called "Modem 2." It has
all the modem control signals, including RI.
Finally, there is a second 68901 MFP, and its serial port appears on the
back of the TT as "Serial 1." It is a three-wire connection: transmit,
receive, and ground only.
In case you couldn't tell, the two "modem" connections have all the
signals, and the two "serial" connections don't: "Serial 1" has only three
wires, but "Serial 2" only lacks RI.
If you have a VME card, you lose the Serial 1 and Serial 2 connectors,
unless you mess with your case (and probably void your warranty): the
connectors appear in the (otherwise empty) VME slot.
As for "checklist engineering," we did it this way because the serial port
is free if you're not using the LAN connector: if you don't use the LAN
port, would you rather have that serial port, or nothing?
============================================
Opinions expressed above do not necessarily -- Allan Pratt, Atari Corp.
reflect those of Atari Corp. or anyone else. ...ames!atari!apratt
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 11:16:16 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!pacific.mps.ohio-state.edu!linac!att!pacbel
l.com!ucsd!nosc!crash!pro-odyssey.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: union demo 2
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
any body have number 2.i saw number 2 once it is nice and i am looking for
a copy of it.i have number 1 it is nice.but 2 will blow you mind with the
graphics and sound.wow!!!if you have it fess up dudes.if you want a copy of
one let me know.i will mail it out if you send 2 or 3 buck for a disk and
mailer.
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 25 Mar 91 10:17:44 GMT
From: mcsun!ukc!edcastle!hwcs!neil@uunet.uu.net (Neil Forsyth)
Subject: Unix on the TT
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Is it possible to buy a TT and run Unix (and possibly) X Windows right now
as I type? And again, is the LAN port being used yet?
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
! DISCLAIMER:Unless otherwise stated, the above comments are entirely my own !
! !
! Neil Forsyth JANET: neil@uk.ac.hw.cs !
! Dept. of Computer Science ARPA: neil@cs.hw.ac.uk !
! Heriot-Watt University UUCP: ..!ukc!cs.hw.ac.uk!neil !
! Edinburgh, Scotland, UK "That was never 5 minutes!" !
+----------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 27 Mar 91 07:29:49 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!apple!agate!sunspot.berkeley.edu!ericco@arizon
a.edu (Eric C. Olson)
Subject: Xlisp and windows
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've started developing an object oriented window system for the
Atari. Has somebody already done this? If so, what was your
approach (and how can I get it)? If not, perhaps you'll be amused
at my attempt.
First, I haven't used by Atari in a long time (for programming).
I started to think about selling it, but I decided to give it a
review.
I've been (somewhat) following c.s.a.s.t, where someone mentioned
Xlisp. Well, as I poked through my disks, I discovered that I
already had a copy. Browsing through the documentation, I noticed
that it was kinda object-oriented. But it did have any atari
interfaces really.
I'd also recently interviewed a guy from autocad who mentioned that
it used Xlisp as an extension language.
It looked pretty easy to add C code to Xlisp, so I added a couple of
bios functions to it. And guess what ... it was easy -- so soon as
I remembered that bios function work and gemdos function almost work.
Grinning with success, I took on the AES -- which I vaguely remember
hating. All I can say is that some of that old code must still be
cluttering my mind, since I quickly got a window going.
So, the long and the short of it is, I'm thinking about following this
up a little more seriously. Before I commit, I'd like to know about
other atari work, and general interest in this.
The general direction would be toward a single large application that
integrated other C source code applications into Xlisp objects. The
idea being that it shouldn't be too hard to convert a C library into
an Xlisp object. The AES interface will be my first attempt. I'll
blow off any attempt at working with multiple screens, but I think
it will work with any VDI complaint device.
Hmmm,
Eric
--
Eric
ericco@ssl.berkeley.edu
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
