Copy Link
Add to Bookmark
Report
Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 198
Info-Atari16 Digest Mon, 8 Apr 91 Volume 91 : Issue 198
Today's Topics:
Atari cpu evolution (2 msgs)
demos
Fastload of programs
HD Floppies Stepper Motor
lynx
Procopy New Address
Reply to Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #156
Rufus (2 msgs)
SPC Pics from Umich, corrupt?
sundog
Thanks - Pagestream info
union demo 2 (3 msgs)
VGA monitor on the ATARI ?
WD 1772 IC....
ZEST demo in atari.archive
Zmodem and Xmodem for VAX
Welcome to the Info-Atari16 Digest. The configuration for the automatic
cross-posting to/from Usenet is getting closer, but still getting thrashed
out. Please send notifications about broken digests or bogus messages
to Info-Atari16-Request@NAUCSE.CSE.NAU.EDU.
Please send requests for un/subscription and other administrivia to
Info-Atari16-Request, *NOT* Info-Atari16. Requests that go to the list
instead of the moderators are likely to be lost or ignored.
If you want to unsubscribe, and you're receiving the digest indirectly
from someplace (usually a BITNET host) that redistributes it, please
contact the redistributor, not us.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 7 Apr 91 16:22:58 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!usc!apple!fernwood!
portal!cup.portal.com!buggs@arizona.edu (William Edward JuneJr)
Subject: Atari cpu evolution
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
What about all treal CHEAP & POWEFULLY SPARC clones?
Seems that'd be a better choice, at least to me...
You uld have either software emulation or hardware coprosessors to run
existing software.
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 06:03:56 GMT
From: uhccux!uhunix1.uhcc.Hawaii.Edu!kiki@ames.arpa (Jack W. Wine)
Subject: Atari cpu evolution
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
[previous statements about British PgC cpu series and influence on Mot./Intel]
>From: plinio@turing.seas.ucla.edu (Plinio Barbeito)
>It would be more fair to call it a monopoly if Motorola's prices were
>unreasonable (like intel's).
I would contend that their decision to not license their 030/040 and 386/486
architectures to other companies was very short-sighted. If Motorola had
allowed their chips to be second sourced, especially with Japanese companies
like Toshiba and Hitachi, they would have attained a much larger share of the
market. Distributing the development of the cpus would have allowed Motorola
and their licensees to debug and produce their designs much faster. Instead,
the 040 arrived more than a year overdue and does not meet its performance
expectations. As for Intel, from what I read, they seem to be simply unscru-
pulous with their licensees and I guess it would have been out of character
for them to have an open architecture.
[PgC 7610 specs and availability...]
>Promising 80 MIPS by Feb. 1992 for $40 in (large volumes, I assume)?
>Sounds great, but it is just that -- a promise. Has intel ever made
>good on the promise that its i860 would run at 50MHz so that the 150
>max MIPS figure hyped by the press could come to light?
Someone posted that there was an article on the PgC chips in the international
edition of Byte. It is supposed to be in the March '91 (not '89) issue and
perhaps someone from Britain might post more information.
>Other questions to be resolved: how efficiently would the processor
>emulate a 68000... We wouldn't know all of this until the machine and
>emulation software were inplemented.
The following information about a similar processor might provide more proof
of the viability of the PgC design: Teraplex (Champaign, IL) developed a 32
bit processor with a 128 bit instruction word (PgC 7600 uses 96 bit instr.).
The Teraplex cpu does not have microcode or decoding circuits so it uses the
the first 64 bits of the instr. word for hardware control, while the second
64 bits are the instruction operands. The instructions are very primitive
so that it is capable of mimicking other processors. Actual systems built
with this MISC (minimal instruction set computer) execute MS-DOS programs at
about 4.5 times the speed of a 33Mhz '386. Although it does not have a FPU,
the Teraplex 32 bit CMOS design is about as fast as a MIPS R3000 with an FPU.
Other systems based on the MISC are running MIPS and SPARC programs and the
company is also investigating running Motorola 68000 code.
Teraplex hopes to have commercial workstations and desktop computers based on
the chip, by the fourth quarter of 1991. Refer Byte, Nov. '90, pgs. 19-20.
>Also, a lot of fast cpus will be introduced in this year of 1991, so
>that 80 MIPS (whatever that means in real terms of performance) may
>not seem as fast by comparison in one year. And 1993? Well, in
>computer years, that's ages hence. By then, the 68050 may be a more
>familiar sight...
It's hard to make predictions, but it seems certain that one of the dominant
OS running on the new processors will be UNIX and the SPARC RISC was designed
to run it optimally. Also, Sun's decision to have an open architecture is
resulting in a flood of systems based on the SPARC chip set. A partial list
of companies introducing SPARC systems are Northgate, Chicony Electronics,
CompuAdd, Hyundai, Tatung, DTK Computer, Opus, RDI/TriGem, DCM Data, Mars,
Sampo, Solbourne, Meiko World, ICL, Solarix, Toshiba, Twinhead, etc... It
would appear that the SPARC-UNIX combo will mirror what happened with the
MS DOS-INTEL systems; you will be able to get a very powerful system, very
cheap.
Atari will have a hard delivering an '040 system that will be competitive with
the SPARC-based systems. If the specs for the PgC and Teraplex chips hold
true, then it would seem to me that Atari could have an amazing machine that
would be capable of running programs faster than the target system!
>From: Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com
>Golly.. Lenonard Tramiel has already stated that Atari will never use
>the 68040 (I think it was at the Glendale AtariFest last year..?), so
>why worry about it..?
I was reading some of the old Znet and STreports on Freenet (thanks to the
people who upload them) and Alwin Stumpf of Atari Germany supposedly said in
an interview that they would use the 68040 if its price were reasonable.
Is Leonard Tramiel head of R&D? I remember reading an article about a guy
name Shiraz Shivji. Is he still around at Atari?
Jack
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 05:20:18 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pro-odyss
ey1.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: demos
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
if any of you have demos like union demo etc please email me the tiltyles i
would be glad to pay you to mail it to me.we are starving foe some in
n.california
thank you
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey1.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 7 Apr 91 10:40:20 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!fauern!opal!db0tui11!hoppet@uunet.uu.net (Thomas Hoppe)
Subject: Fastload of programs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I am interested to speed up the program loading process on my atari
and I have found the assembler source of `fastload' on atari.archive.
But unfortunately I'am not experienced in assembley programming of
68000 nor do I have an assembler program available. Is any body
out there who has compiled this program and who could send me
a corresponding `.prg' file?
As I have noticed from the source code, it seems that `fastloading'
is higly site dependent. I am still working on TOS 1.0 dated 02/06/86,
thus I would appreciate if somebody could send me an `error free' fast-
loader for this old TOS.
Please respond by Email and thanx in advance
Thomas Hoppe
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 08:09:13 GMT
From: math.fu-berlin.de!tmpmbx!netmbx!hase@uunet.uu.net (Hartmut Semken)
Subject: HD Floppies Stepper Motor
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
alanh@logitek.co.uk (Alan Hourihane) writes:
> Well, after a month of using my HD Floppy the Stepper motor finally
>blew up!!!.
> The drive is an FD235HF - Teac Mechanism.
> Does any body know in the U.K. where I could either get it repaired
>or buy the stepper motor.
Its not worth it.
If You want to replace the stepper motor, You would have to readjust it
for the tracks beiing compatible with other drives.
It is impossible to do this without special measuring equipment
including a special disk to check the alignment of the tracks.
You should get Your drive replaced on warranty (it came with a warranty,
right?).
hase
--
Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP
Hi! (Zaphod Beeblebrox)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 05:17:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pro-odyss
ey1.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: lynx
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
new games for lynx coming soon....
hard drivin,crystal mines,warbirds,nfl football,hydra,stun runner,block
out,ninja gaiden,cyberball,scrapyard dog,hockey,casino,basket
brawl,apb,vindicators,checkered flag,and many many more!!!!!check them out
dont look at the game toy just the animal lynx(#1).nintendo can't touch
this!!!!!
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey1.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 7 Apr 91 12:57:12 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!samsung!munnari.oz.au!bruce!goanna!minyos.xx.rmit.oz.
au!t821431@arizona.edu (Richard Clarkson)
Subject: Procopy New Address
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
xx
Does anybody have a more recent address for the makers of procopy than
this one:
ProCo Products
PO Box 665 Chepachet RI 02814
Tel: (401) 568 8459
I have recieved no confirmation of registration or updates since purchasing
version 1.8 in june last year 1990..Does anybody have a new address for the
company?
Thanks from Richard
zz
ZZ
quit
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 07:23:16 +0200
From: /G=P/S=Bip/@FB-INFORMATIK.FH-MUENCHEN.DBP.DE
Subject: Reply to Info-Atari16 Digest V91 #156
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 06:26:38 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!caen!umich!wsu-cs!j
ake!pbh@arizona.edu (Patrick Haggood)
Subject: Rufus
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I dloaded RUFUS from atari.archive sometime last year and only recently
bought G+Plus so I could try it out (RUFUS needs GDOS). However, I
am having problems with it. First, I have the terminal protocol set to
VT100, but I call up the University machines and the screen won't
scroll. It gets to the bottom of the screen and all the text disappears
below the last line. Also, the text that comes back from the mainframe
is all junk! I have the settings done the same as Uniterm but it's like
RUFUS uses its own character table! Anybody had the same type of
problems with RUFUS?
--
Patrick B. Haggood
Wayne STate University
Detroit, MI
Physics - Class of 1991 (-2?)
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 08:25:32 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.
edu!ucselx!petunia!csuchico.edu!ekrimen@arizona.edu (Ed Krimen)
Subject: Rufus
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Apr8.062638.4276@cs.wayne.edu> pbh@jake.cc.wayne.edu (Patrick
Haggood) writes:
>I dloaded RUFUS from atari.archive sometime last year and only recently
>bought G+Plus so I could try it out (RUFUS needs GDOS). However, I
There is a GDOS clone at atari.archive called AMCGDOS. It's from Germany, I
believe. Actually, I'm pretty sure it's at a.a; I think that's where
I got my version. So, those who want to try Rufus don't need to purchase
G+Plus, although G+Plus is an excellent product.
--
Ed Krimen ...............................................
||| Video Production Major, California State University, Chico
||| INTERNET: ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu FREENET: al661
/ | \ SysOp, Fuji BBS: 916-894-1261 FIDONET: 1:119/4.0
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 08:55:16 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!wuarchive!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!sol.ctr.columbia.
edu!ira.uka.de!fauern!faui43.informatik.uni-erlangen.de!lsmichae@arizona.edu
(Lars Michael)
Subject: SPC Pics from Umich, corrupt?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
archbold@bluemoon.uucp (Archie Jaszcz) writes:
> Yeah, the same thing happened to me a few days ago. Some of the
>spc pics worked just fine (like moonflag.spc, apollo10.spc and
>apollo9.spc), but others just wouldn't load and my shower would abort.
> So, I guess my question is the same: whats up with some of these
>pics?
I have downloaded some of them, and I noticed that all files with length
50014 Bytes are ok.
Any comments/ideas?
Lars
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------+
| lsmichae@faui43.uni-erlangen.de | | | | |
| Lars Michael | | | | "Down with ATARI, |
| Graduate Student of Computer Science | / | \ Long live the ST !" |
| at University of Erlangen/Germany | / | \ |
+----------------------------------------+----------------------------------|
| "May the Schwartz be with you!" |
+---------------------------------------------------------------------------+
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 05:17:51 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pro-odyss
ey1.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: sundog
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In-Reply-To: message from boblu@tekgen.BV.TEK.COM
what is sun dog about again????
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey1.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 7 Apr 91 19:57:08 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!ukma!psuvax1!uwm.edu!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!think.com!mintaka!og
icse!milton!alexd@arizona.edu (Alex Danilchik)
Subject: Thanks - Pagestream info
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Thanks to all those who responded to my questions about
IMG files and Pagestream/Postscript.
This has been a real help.
Another Question: If i save a music score of several pages in
length to an .IMG file and export it to Pagestream, does
Pagestream know how to handle a raster file of this size?
Does the score automatically get appropriated to multiple pages
in the DTP?
Thanks
cheers!
gunnar
alexd@milton.u.washington.edu
------------------------------
Date: 7 Apr 91 19:03:26 GMT
From: haven!wam.umd.edu!dmb@ames.arpa (David M. Baggett)
Subject: union demo 2
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Apr7.040622.5384@mailer.cc.fsu.edu> boyd@nu.cs.fsu.edu writes:
>Dave, these works are not commercial efforts!! Some of these kids are not
>even in High School yet, for cripes sake! Recognize these demos for what
>they are: great demoes written by pirating groups. The messages are
>programming challenges and boasts of great hacks.
I know this is going to sound pedantic, but why should we applaud bad
programming practices? OK, I'm impressed by the fact that M.C. Crakker
or whoever can put 522 colors on the screen, but I just have a hard
time giving praise to these folks, because if they continue to write
things that rely on hardware ideosynrcsies and internal TOS variables
they will cause endless headaches for everyone when they do release
commercial software. The Care Bears' sample sequencer recently posted
is a perfect example. That program is a complete disaster as far as
"coexisting in harmony with the system." People don't WANT a file
selector that has little stars flying around the screen. People don't
WANT to have to run the program off floppy, and put up with the thing
crashing all the time. It's great that they managed to get 4 digitized
samples playing simultaneously. I can tell you from experience that's
NOT easy. But without some attention paid to good programming
practices and "the rules," the program is useless, IMHO. Ask Allan
Pratt what he thinks about programs that rely on "undocumented features"
or circumvent GEMDOS and use their own floppy-disk handling code...
I am NOT trying to say that these programmers are not good; on the
contrary many of them seem to be very talented (especially if they're
as young as you say), but the last thing the world needs is a bunch of
people writing nonportable, non-fool-proof, and non-bullet-proof code.
The irony is that it's not that they _can't_ make robust, portable
programs. Being such programming whiz-kids, it should be no problem.
They just don't care. That's the part that I wish would change.
> What the heck is "general
>purpose code"??? The general purpose of the Union demo is to amaze the eyes
>and ears, and create envy toward the members of the Union. Sounds good to
>me . . .
Well, at the very least, "general-purpose code" in the case of a demo
means, "code that will run on all ST/TT machines". (Within reason. If
you write an STe or TT only demo, that's another matter.)
As I've pointed out before, there are many, many demos that don't run
on my machine because my monitor can't handle the UNDOCUMENTED forced
change to 50Hz. Just sour grapes, you say? Nope, I just wish that
these people would spend a little more time figuring out how to do
things the right way, rather than hacking the OS to pieces.
Trust me, most things like screen interrupts that put 512 colors on the
screen CAN be done such that the "great hack" will work on all ST's.
As for "envy," on the one hand you're saying that I shouldn't expect too
much of these people because they are high school kids, but on the other
hand you tell me tht the point of the demos is to make me impressed with
their programming genuis. To me this is similar to saying, "There's
a really incredible ice skater I know. She falls down a lot, but if
she can keep going she can do these _amazing_ jumps."
A lot of people consider Darek Mihocka to be a "whiz-kid," and he was
writing code when he was in high school too. My impression, however,
is that he follows "the rules". He writes great stuff (the 8-bit
emulator is certainly an impressive "hack"), but still manages to make
sure it's robust and TOS-version independent. My point is that I am
personally more impressed by something like Quick ST than the Union
Demo in terms of programming ability. Quick ST isn't showy, but it's a
great hack, and it works on every ST/TT in creation. OK, so Quick ST
is a commercial product. So what? There's no reason those demo people
couldn't write commerical-quality software too. They obviously have
plenty of spare time, and it would probably help them pay for college!
Again, just my opinion.
>The only thing that scares me is: What the hell are we going to do when the
>little buggers hit the job market . . . . :-)
Pray that they have learned to write portable and robust code before you
have to use one of their programs. :-)
That all said, I'm really not trying to flame the demo authors. Poor
programming practices and non-portable code just get to me. Maybe
there's a traumatic expereince involving poor programming in my past. :-/
Enough o' my raving...
Dave Baggett
dmb%wam.umd.edu@uunet.uu.net
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 05:18:47 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pro-odyss
ey1.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: union demo 2
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In-Reply-To: message from d_alvear@jhunix.HCF.JHU.EDU
are these demoes union 1 and 2 in the archive and lostboys one etc???
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey1.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 05:19:23 GMT
From:
noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!hellgate.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!nosc!crash!pro-odyss
ey1.cts.com!chuckie@arizona.edu (Chuck Schul)
Subject: union demo2
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
the bbs was down so whoever has union demo 2 let me know!!!!!
thnaks
----
ProLine: chuckie@pro-odyssey
Internet: chuckie@pro-odyssey1.cts.com
UUCP: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie
ARPA: crash!pro-odyssey!chuckie@nosc.mil
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 9:17 GMT
From: MPPU2%CLUSTER.SUSSEX.AC.UK@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU
Subject: VGA monitor on the ATARI ?
To: INFO-ATARI16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hi folks,
Does anybody know how, if possible, to connect a vga monitor
to the atari. I'd be interested to know.
Thanks in advance, not really .
MAX.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
MPPU2@UK.AC.SUSSEX.CLUSTER
silly bit :
Waiting for inspiration.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 8 Apr 91 02:33:06 GMT
From: noao!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!apple!netcom!yonder@arizona.edu
(Christopher Russell)
Subject: WD 1772 IC....
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
davea@col.hp.com (David E Allen) writes:
>yonder@netcom.COM (Christopher Russell) / 6:12 pm Apr 3, 1991 /
>> All of the floppy controller IC's that JDR had are almost
>> exclusively under $10 and the 1771 is $5.. Almost all of these IC's are
>> 40 pin and I am sure more sophisticated than the 1772 ...
>> I call up B&C and San Jose Computer, and sure they have it but at $25 (!!)
>If it's pins you want, stock up on 6800's and 8080's. The 1772 is more
>"sophisticated" than a lot of the 40-pin FDC's you'll find. I don't know if
>$25 is the best price, but don't let the smaller pincount fool you.
>dave allen, colorado springs
To answer my own question, the best place that I found to get the 1772 is
BEST electronics in San Jose, Ca. I talked to somebody named Brad. He was
very helpful and actually talked to me for a while about my problem and even
made suggestions etc.. The number of couse can be found in several of the
Atari Mags.. but I have it right here: 408-243-6950..
BTW, I spent some time calling around about this IC and Western Digital no
longer manufactures it (even though it is listed in the 1991 IC master).
There is another company that is going to be putting out some compatables soon,
but the price was even more than $25... I think BEST's price was $18 and some
odd cents.. but don't quote me..
.....yonder
--
Christopher Russell (yonderboy) yonder@netcom.COM or clr40@amail.amdahl.com
------------------------------
Date: 7 Apr 91 19:13:19 GMT
From: unhd.unh.edu!oz!pyr579@uunet.uu.net (Technoid)
Subject: ZEST demo in atari.archive
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Hey netters,
I just downloaded the ZEST demo for the ST from atari.archive and it
is great. Embossed windows with ability to background utility windows and
do something else. It was a demo inspired by the NeXT computer according
to the author. You need monochrome, but if you are running color, grab
EMULA which is a monochrome emulation ( that actually works well ). I was
very impressed by the demo, whoever did it, if you are reading this, please
continue!
One word about EMULA, make sure you put this on a floppy AUTO folder
not your Hard drive, it does some funky stuff that will probably conflict
with other AUTOboot prgs and perhaps fry your Hard Drive.
Have Fun!!!
--
\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
pyr579@oz.plymouth.edu Stephan R. Cleaves
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 8 Apr 91 05:43:06 -0400
From: jmz@17.77.ucc.nau.edu
Subject: Zmodem and Xmodem for VAX
To: EAST"Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu"
Zmodem for Vax/Vms is available from the TRICKLE server in the <misc.vaxvms>
directory. It should also be available on Simtel20.
Jean-Marc Zucconi
Zucconi@frobes51.Bitnet
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
