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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 91 Issue 165
Info-Atari16 Digest Sat, 23 Mar 91 Volume 91 : Issue 165
Today's Topics:
1040STE's
Atari ST 4M RAM, 20M Harddisk, Software for Sale
E-mail files for IBM?
For sale.
I need help! Bad memory ....
LDW Power Version 2
LEXICOR, Atari TT/030, Video Toaster
lynx
Macrovision Eliminators
Midi file format (Used by several midi programs).
Modula-2 and Oberon compilers for Atari ST
Standardized disk layout/folder names
standard practices
ST Pad specs (2 msgs)
TT REVIEW (2 msgs)
What's at CeBIT?
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 01:23:53 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!sdd.hp.com!spool.mu.edu!uwm.edu!ogicse!unmvax!nmt.
edu!eahsnsr@arizona.edu (Eric A. Hobbs)
Subject: 1040STE's
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I'm not sure if my other post got through. If it did, I'm sorry. The
Post said that Toad Computers sells 1040STe's for $399.
----------------
Eric A. HOBBS!
eahsnsr@JUPITER.nmt.edu
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 07:39:56 GMT
From: sgi!mips!public!a9@ames.arpa (a9 a9@btr.com)
Subject: Atari ST 4M RAM, 20M Harddisk, Software for Sale
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Please call her directly at the number at the end. Do not reply to me.
-----------------------------------------
Atari ST520 with 4M RAM, 16Mhz accelerator, 20MB **HARDDISK**
*TWO* 720K floppies, monitor , modem, printer etc
PLUS Laser C with Debugger, LWD Basic, Assembler,, Wordprocessors,
spreadsheet, PC-Ditto, Games and lots of other software....
Hardware & Software. All goes as a package ..
only $700 or best offer.
Excellent Condition; Working Like New!
HARDWARE:
--------
4 megabyte RAM; 16 MHZ accelerator chip; mouse, external
20 megabyte hard disk; two 3.5"/720 kilobyte floppy drives;
color monitor; Avatex 1200 bauds external modem; real time
clock; internal fans for cooling; power supplies and floppy
drives enclosed in heavy-duty metal case; MIDI port; serial port;
parallel port; communications port; TV set port; Morrow MP100 daisy
wheel parallel printer (with a box of ribbons); Jacobson Anderson
serial printer/terminal/typewriter; 50 cps, dot- matrix Texas
Instruments 8 pin printer, all interconnection cables included.
SOFTWARE LANGUAGES:
------------------
68000 Assempro Assembly; Laser C Compiler/Linker; Laser C Debugger;
LDW Basic Compiler/Linker; ST Basic Interpreter; ST Logo.
SOFTWARE UTILITIES:
------------------
Revolver memory manager; Universal item selector II directory/file
manager; Turbo ST accelerator; Z-time real time calendar/clock
manager; Aerco EasieST utilities; PC ditto for MS-DOS applications
compatibility.
SOFTWARE APPLICATIONS:
---------------------
Flash communications package; Wordplus wordprocessor; Wordplus
merge mailer; Wordplus dictionary merger; VIP Professional
1-2-3- like spreadsheet; HelpCALC spreadsheet templates for
VIP Professional; dbMan database manager; Hippoconcept idea
processor/outliner; Express letter processor; Easydraw draw
package; Macromouse automatic-mouse programmer; STkey keyboard
programmer; Learning C graphics; stereo CAD-3D CAD package;
Cybermate CAD package; Lionhart PERT scheduler; Lionhart Planner 1;
Lionhart Planner 2; ST GEM operation system programming.
EDUCATION:
---------
Learning Trigonometry; Typing Tutor; The Cartographer Maps.
GAMES:
-----
Joust; Megaroids; Frozen Legacy; Sundog; Flight Simulator II;
Hippo Almanac; Super Huey; Hippo Jokes; Neochrome.
REFERENCE BOOKS:
---------------
.ATARI ST Machine Language
.ATARI ST Internals
.GEM Programmer's Reference
.ATARI ST: GEM AES Technical Reference Guide
.Programming Graphics on the Amiga & ATARI ST with C Language
Please call after 6:00 PM: (408) 296-0922. Helena
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 02:21:59 GMT
From: cleveland.Freenet.Edu!aa519@ucbvax.berkeley.edu (Scotty Meredith)
Subject: E-mail files for IBM?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I do not have FTP access (legally), so I think BART is the best thing
since Chevrolet. I was just wondering if there is any mail systems
similar to BART for IBM programs? Thank you in advance!
Scotty
aa519@cleveland.freenet.edu
--
QUESTION: What is the only thing an Amiga can * * *
do, that an Atari ST cant?? * * *
* * *
ANSWER: Flicker! * * *
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 14:12:29 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!rpi!uupsi!rodan.acs.syr.edu!mjducey@arizona.ed
u (Matthew J. Ducey)
Subject: For sale.
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Well I first have to say I just hate doing this. Having an Atari for over
11 years, it's just hard to part.
I need to sell my system. I have the following and more (I'm sure I forgot
something). I'd like to sell it in parts, as I do need the cash.
Please make an offer, the best will get it.
I have:
520ST with 2.5 megs (will sell the card and chips if wanted that way)
SF354 turned into a double sided drive.
Supra 30MB Hard Disk
SuperCharger with both software packages
Moniter Master
SM124
SC1124
Genius Mouse
Gemstik Joy Stick
LDW Power
WordPerfect(upgrade too)
DataManager ST
Turbo ST
The Juggler
Mark Willams C and debugger
Michtron BBS
TONS of STart mags and disks and some old Compute stuff
Falcon
Red Lightning
Airborne Ranger <-and I just got that too!:(
Risk
Orge
SDI
Football
And about 10 programming books.
Ugh. Email me if anyone is intrested in anything and we will talk
about price etc.
Matthew
--
But I still like my ST... HP-48SX CIS 70521,373
SOCEUR (A) Bitnet mjducey@suvm
"But Sgt. Airborne, look how high we are"! mjducey@rodan.acs.syr.edu
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 05:04:38 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!asuvax!cs.utexas.edu!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona
.edu (Juxtaposer)
Subject: I need help! Bad memory ....
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
My ST started flaking out on me just recently. After warming up, for
1/2 hour to 15 min., it would bomb out or become a nasty blob of random
speckles. So I used a memory checker on my memory and it is an intermittant
problem with the high-bank bit 2: it expected A5A5 and got A7A5, or it
expected E4BC and it got E6BC. Anyway, I want to desolder the bad 256k chip,
but I don't know which of the 16 it is. I have an original 520ST with RF
modulator, and the board is Revision B. The addresses that it failed at were
0007FF74 to around 0007FD8C. At present I only have 512k of memory.
Please, if anyone can tell me the correct chip, and maybe a chart for
future reference, PLEASE EMAIL ME! I think I'll go nuts without my ST!
Thank you all MUCH in advance!
-Mike
baffoni@aludra.usc.edu
or
mbaffoni@skat.usc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 91 22:39:45 AST
From: Alyre CHIASSON <CHIASSA%UDEM@UNBMVS1.csd.unb.ca>
Subject: LDW Power Version 2
To: N <info-atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu>
I called a major mail order house today(March 22) with the
intention of ordering LDW Power. I was told that version
2 was now out and the price had gone from 84 to 129$. This
would suggest that some major changes have been made. I
decided to hold off purchasing until I had a bit more info.
Can anyone inform me as to what these changes are and
how they relate to the price increase. Thanks
CHIASSAL@UDEM
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 91 03:28:26 GMT
From: attcan!telly!moore!eastern!egsgate!FredMail@uunet.uu.net
Subject: LEXICOR, Atari TT/030, Video Toaster
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Actually, the Mega ST computers have always had a built in expansion bus. The
new Mega STE and TT computers have a half-height Euro-card 3U VME bus. There
are many expansion boxes available that will provide for 6-12 slots and these
plug into the backplane of these Atari VME bus machines. The VME bus in the
Mega STE and TT could very well be used for the video toaster.
S.S.
#! rnews 582
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 04:03:34 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!jjung@arizona.edu
(Robert Jung)
Subject: lynx
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Mar19.200450.21738@isc.rit.edu> drp9500@isc.rit.edu (D.R.
Paradis ) writes:
>In article <15926@chaph.usc.edu> jjung@aludra.usc.edu (Robert Jung) writes:
>> Portable game system market so far:
>>
>> Nintendo Gameboy $89 B&W, 1-2 players
>> Atari Lynx $99/$149 Color, 1-8-??? players
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> try 1-144!!!
I knew that already (heck, there ain't a piece of non-proprietary Lynx
information I _don't_ know). However, there doesn't exist a 144-player
Lynx game yet, so I don't want to count it so high so far.
(My sources say the ComLynx LAN has no upper limit -- the only limitations
are in the software. The upcoming CHCEKERED FLAG auto racing game is supposed
to support 1-6 players, which breaks the powers-of-two trend currently
existing)
>> NEC TurboExpress $300+ Color, 1-2 players, accepts
>> TurboGraphix-16 games
> ~~~~
> $250 (tuner shown in ads is an extra $150)
$300 now. NEC announced a price hike a few weeks back. When the TE's return
(any day now?), it will cost more. Don't matter to me, I don't like the
TurboGraphix-16 games anyway.
--R.J.
B-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
# ## # Send replies to jjung@nunki.usc.edu
# ## #
## ## ## I wrote this. If you've got a comment, give
#### ## #### it to me and let's cut out the middleman.
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 02:29:54 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!hanauma!hyc@arizona.edu (Howard Chu)
Subject: Macrovision Eliminators
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <9103201915.AA03146@george> gpinzone@george.poly.edu writes:
>One other to add to the list is the one made by BP. You can get it at Fordham
>Electronics:
>
>Fordham Electronics
>260 Motor Parkway
>Hauppauge, NY 11788-5134
>516-435-8080 FAX: 516-435-8079
>Out of state: 800-645-9518
>NYS state: 800-832-1446
>
>Model V-1896
>$49.95
>
>This also is an audio and video enhancer. It also stops picture rolling
>(remember the good 'ol days?)
Stops picture rolling? Can it stop the rolling caused by trying to view
a 50hz video signal on a 60hz TV?
--
-- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here!
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 03:14:33 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!wuarchive!csus.e
du!ucdavis!elroy.ucdavis.edu!ez002643@arizona.edu
Subject: Midi file format (Used by several midi programs).
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
Newsgroups: comp.sys.atari.st,comp.music
Subject: Re: Midi file format (Used by several midi programs).
Summary:
Expires:
References: <1482@ahds.UUCP> <10189@pitt.UUCP> <mike.669596010@ushi>
Sender:
Followup-To:
Distribution:
Organization: Davis
Keywords: MIDI, MIDI file format, atari, samplers, sound processing
Try anon FTP to ucsd... i forget which machine exactly... anyone else know?
They even have patches for all sorts of synths along with complete
MIDI specs... enjoy.
***NEVER WASTE BANDWIDTH WITH LAME SIGNATURES!!! TREES WILL DIE ACCIDENTALLY!
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 02:31:29 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!vsnyder@arizona.edu (Van Snyder)
Subject: Modula-2 and Oberon compilers for Atari ST
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
I've been using the TDI Modula-2 compiler for the Atari ST for several
years. But I understand they're belly up now. Has anybody taken over
TDI's assets (and responsibilities such as updates / consultation)? Is
there any decent Modula-2 vendor for the ST, even if not supporting the old
TDI compiler and library? That is, providing a library with complete AES,
VDI, GEMDOS, BIOS, LineA and XBIOS interfaces?
Are there Oberon vendors for Atari ST?
Thanks in advance for any information
--
vsnyder@jato.Jpl.Nasa.Gov
ames!elroy!jato!vsnyder
vsnyder@jato.uucp
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 91 23:36:13 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!swrinde!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!newstop!texsun!conv
ex!rosenkra@arizona.edu (William Rosencranz)
Subject: Standardized disk layout/folder names
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
plinio@crowe.seas.ucla.edu (Plinio Barbeito) writes:
>after i wrote:
>>i can propose another alternative: for those capable of running a binary
>>patch editor, building in patch space in internal path strings is easy:
>>
>> char *path = "C:\\GEMPROG\\SUBDIR\\FILE.DAT\0 ";
>>
>>then you can just hack in a new location (or better yet, provide a simple
>>tool to do it for the user.
>
>I think you've missed the point. To make the ST truly user-friendly,
>the user shouldn't have to worry about any of this.
yes, i agree in a perfect world you should never have to think about
the tools you are using. they should just automagically work. but in the
real world there are always trade-offs and restrictions. you have to
draw the line somewhere and make some assumptions, ALWAYS based on cost/
benefit (here cost can be development $$$ or time, generally the same
thing). general purpose computers are still not for everyone. it would
be nice to be able to walk into a room and say "computer: balance my
checkbook, then tell me if i am in trouble". right now, we have to deal
with files and less easy to use user interfaces. in 20 years we won't.
but we'll have other problems.
i have not missed the point. doing this and supplying an install program
(can even be inside the program) can patch these locations and the user
need only do it once. a well written program will manage this for the user.
the only assumptuion made is that users understand what folders are and that
they differ from files. and i don't see why it would be a problem to have
one folder per application either. less sophisticated users are not
going to have 2000 applications. more like 5 to 10. when they get to
20-30 applications, they are more sophisticated and you can expect them
to know more and ask more of them. i know you are really talking about
where to put things for each program. that means something like you
said: put all gem binaries in one place, put all rsc in one place, put
all readme/docs in one place. this may mean changing some file names
(there may be 150 README files). at the same time the true novice may
not know that app.prg is the program (.prg is a "standard" name) and
that gem programs generally have things called resources, .rsc (note
for nitpickers: i know there are lots of programs with imbedded resources
and in most cases, not all, this should be more common practice).
he only knows what s/he is told. it also means that the novice will have
to know more than you may think, organizational things. letting a
program do its thing as if it were the only program the user runs is
not necessarily bad, since there are users who only do word processing
or only play games or only DTP. there is a lot of bad software out
there. at the same time you really can't blame developers on the ST
for being sloppy. some stuff is ported from other platforms. and the
future of the ST is always debatable.
your proposal also means getting lots of developers
and perhaps atari behind this. i would not hold my breath. i don't think
there is a painless solution. i think your ideas are good, but i don't
think inertia can be overcome here. it appears that gem applications are
more like islands. this is not the case with unix where pipes and other
artifacts insure that applications work and play well with each other.
look, if i am meeting resistance to something as innocuous as "-help"
which is totally invisible, what makes you think 100's of developers
are going to adopt your scheme, no matter how reasonable/rational it is?
and for the record, i think it IS reasonable/rational. but the real issue
is promulgating a standard, not the technical details associated with it.
like most human endeavors, it is political. you have to deal with that
as well, considering what is the impact with and without said standard.
i did't realize how verbose i can get! sorry...
-bill
rosenkra@convex.com
--
Bill Rosenkranz |UUCP:
Convex Computer Corp. |ARPA: rosenkra%c1yankee@convex.com
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 91 16:41:41 GMT
From: hpfcso!mjs@hplabs.hp.com (Marc Sabatella)
Subject: standard practices
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
> -debug to turn on internal debugging, if any
> -help to print a usage synopsis
> -version to print current program version
> -changes to print major changes since last rev (or indicate
> that this is first rev)
As others have commented, debug stuff doesn't belong in a released product,
help stuff belongs in a separate "man page" if you really want to be Unix-like,
and "what" or "ident" can report version and change history information.
>does this sound reasonable? i have adopted this myself for both unix and
>TOS. i just wish P1003.2 would say something about this...
It (or else XPG2 and XPG3) does say something about your choice of options:
they are unacceptable. They bless "getopt" as the means of parsing arguments.
This means "-debug" should be interpreted as "-d -e -b -u -g" if
any (or all?) of "-e", "-b", "-u" and "-g" are defined as options, or else it
could be interpreted as "-d ebug", where "ebug" is an argument to "-d", and
optional arguments are forbidden (ie, either an option takes an argument or it
doesn't). In general, multi-character options beginning with "-" are frowned
upon. Instead, use something like
-A,debug
-A,help
...
or
+debug
+help
...
--------------
Marc Sabatella (marc@hpmonk.fc.hp.com)
Disclaimers:
2 + 2 = 3, for suitably small values of 2
Bill and Dave may not always agree with me
------------------------------
Date: 21 Mar 91 20:26:04 GMT
From:
ubc-cs!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!geac!maccs!johns@beaver.cs.washingt
on.edu (Conan the Barbarian)
Subject: ST Pad specs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1991Mar21.080126.22262@ecst.csuchico.edu> ekrimen@ecst.csuchico.edu
(Ed Krimen) writes:
>[...]
>I don't know, but for some reason 'TOS with...handwriting recognition'
>doesn't seem to jive, if you know what I mean. :~)
>
Well, yeah, I guess I do. In case you're wondering, the technology
_does_ exist. I think Xerox PARC has stuff like this going. I friend of
mine works at Xerox over here etc...
>Thanks for posting the information. May I ask where you found it? I
>just like to know the sources of these things. :~)
The CeBIT article came from a local BBS. The specs on the ST Pad
and ST Book came from Atari's BBS here in Markham. They even set up a
special area for these computers on the BBS already.
>[signature deleted]
--
John Schmitt
johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
!unet!utai!utgpu!maccs!johns
------------------------------
Date: 22 Mar 91 14:09:34 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uakari.primate.wisc.
edu!caen!math.lsa.umich.edu!sharkey!cfctech!teemc!ka3ovk!irscscm!mlake@arizona.
edu (Marshall Lake)
Subject: ST Pad specs
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <27E4E601.1238@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca> johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
(Conan the Barbarian) writes:
>
>ST PAD
>--------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ specs deleted ]
Simply incredible!!
--
Marshall Lake
mlake@irscscm.UUCP
!uunet!media!ka3ovk!irscscm!mlake
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 01:41:07 GMT
From: noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!jato!hanauma!hyc@arizona.edu (Howard Chu)
Subject: TT REVIEW
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1565@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander)
writes:
>About the serial ports: how many _uarts_ does this machine have, as
>opposed to how many connectors appear on the back? Is it one-to-one,
>or do perhaps some connectors share a single uart? Also, could some
>well informed reader tell me (us) what the uart types for the various
>ports are (6850, 8350, 8250, 16650a or what have you)?
5 ports, 4 UARTs. Two are 68901, two are Zilog 8530. One of the 8530s
is connected to both a serial port and the "LAN" port, configurable for
Localtalk speed (230kbps). Two 68901s are used in the TT as opposed to
the single 68901 in STs. I guess they needed another to handle interrupt
vectoring for all the new devices...
(Oops. Is it really 8350? Whatever. The Zilog chip, same one as used in
Mac and Sun.)
>
>I ask this since I understand that the Mega STe shares a uart between
>the LAN port and one of the rs232 ports (implying that you can't
>simultaneously converse with both the LAN and a device on the rs232
>port in question). I may be wrong (I hope I am wrong), but I suspect
>there's an element of `checklist engineering' here.
Correct.
--
-- Howard Chu @ Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA
Disclaimer: How would I know, I just got here!
------------------------------
Date: 23 Mar 91 05:19:02 GMT
From:
noao!ncar!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!usc!chaph.usc.edu!aludra.usc.edu!baffoni@arizona.e
du (Juxtaposer)
Subject: TT REVIEW
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
In article <1565@aupair.cs.athabascau.ca> rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (Ross Alexander)
writes:
>
>About the serial ports: how many _uarts_ does this machine have, as
>opposed to how many connectors appear on the back? Is it one-to-one,
>or do perhaps some connectors share a single uart? Also, could some
Yup, the LAN (basically an Appletalk DIN) shares a uart with one of the
RS232 ports, so you can't use them at the same time (not that I can think of
how I _could_ use them all, let alone more than one serial port, unless I plan
on running a multi-line BBS - don't I wish:). Unfortunately
I don't have the specs so I can't tell you what uart drives the ports.
>--
>--
>Ross Alexander rwa@cs.athabascau.ca (403) 675 6311 ve6pdq
>"Go on! Shoot me again! I enjoy it! I love the smell of burnt feathers
> and gunpowder and cordite!" -- Daffy Duck, "Duck! Rabbit! Duck!"
-Mike
------------------------------
Date: 20 Mar 91 16:07:54 GMT
From:
ubc-cs!news-server.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!geac!maccs!johns@beaver.cs.washingt
on.edu (Conan the Barbarian)
Subject: What's at CeBIT?
To: Info-Atari16@naucse.cse.nau.edu
When is the CeBIT computer show? Anyone heard any news of what is
over there from Atari?
Last weekend I posted a few articles on some new Atari products,
the ST Book and the ST Pad. I haven't seen anyone make any comments on
these, and I didn't receive any news here during the weekend, so I wonder
if these articles got out to the world.
Should I repost or is this old hat and I just poked my head out
of the cave?
--
John Schmitt
johns@maccs.dcss.mcmaster.ca
!unet!utai!utgpu!maccs!johns
------------------------------
End of Info-Atari16 Digest
******************************
