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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 89 Issue 800
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INFO-ATARI16 Digest Wed, 13 Dec 89 Volume 89 : Issue 800
Today's Topics:
AES bug? --> No, I just didn't know what i was doing!!
ATM on the Spectre GCR continued...
Directory node descriptors and AHDI
FLAMES and SUPPORT IN THE MINUS REALM (2 msgs)
Mahjong and Drachen
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 13 Dec 89 18:14:58 GMT
From: bucsb!harryk@CS.BU.EDU (_harryk)
Subject: AES bug? --> No, I just didn't know what i was doing!!
Message-ID: <150@bucsb.UUCP>
I would like to thank Robert from Netherlands and Darek from ATARI Corp.
for answering my question!
They both suggested to use wind_update() instead of menu_bar(), inside
the for-loop! So YES, that was the answer: once i did it, everything was
working fine! As far as MN_SELECTED is concerned, i have to apologise, but
i was using MU_MESAG from the very first time; i just mistyped the code
when i sent it to the net!
The sad thing is, that I've never seen wind_update() documented along
with any menu_xxxx() function! I'm using MWC's manual and "GEM Programer's
Reference" by Abacus, as GEM reference guides! In both of them, wind_update()
is NOT even MENTIONED on the pages talking about menus! But that's why Use-
Net does exist, i guess!
So, for any future GEM programer who wants to use keyboard equivalents, be
carefull when using menu_bar(menutree, 0/1). If you want to disable the
menu bar while you are in the main loop, use wind_update(BEG/END_UPDATE);
among other things it disables the menu bar too! I figured it out, in the
hard way, but I'm glad that people like Robert and Darek do exist and are
ready to help!
Thanks again!!
Harry Karayiannis
3rd Year Computer Science
Boston University
PS1: Ken, Alan and Darek prove every day, through this net, that ATARI Corp.
Programming Department consists of outstanding individuals! Imagine ST
Community's future (in the US) without those three men advising other
ST users and programmers! (I only wish ATARI could publish a complete
documentation on Technical Information about its machines, and make it
available to the public! All the books i've seen assume that the reader
is already familiar with GEM, and are used as refernce books! Only Pro-
spero Software provides exceptional documentation with its products
- I happen to own Prospero Pascal (but still,nothing about wind_update()
on menu pages) - )!
PS2: Ok Robert, I haven't forgotten you! In the past, i said that Germans are
ST wizards! I did forget to add Netherland guys too! Actually, in the
middle Europe one can get the most out of his ST, and Netherlans is in
the middle Europe, right? BTH, I love the Netherland version of the game
RISK!
Take care guys!!!!
------------------------------
Date: 13 DEC 89 12:25:50 CST
From: Z4648252 <Z4648252%SFAUSTIN.BITNET@ricevm1.rice.edu>
Subject: ATM on the Spectre GCR continued...
Message-ID: <891213.12254953.033065@SFA.CP6>
Sorry folks,
...but I'm getting a lot of bounced mail. The following letter and
my reply to him may be of benefit to others, though...
----
Thanks for the info on Adobe Type Manager and Spectre.
I was wondering what printer driver you use and how that ties
in to ATM? I use the Grappler LS driver under Spectre to drive
my deskjet, and it comes with a set of fonts called G-Dutch and
G-Swiss. I get 300-dpi fonts (no jaggies), because the Grappler Driver
uses the 4x version of the screen font to print to the Deskjet (e.g.,
the 12-point screen font is printed using the corresponding 48-point
font).
Would ATM make my printer driver unnecessary? Thanks for any info,
Rana Dutt
rcd@mtqua.att.com
----
Rana,
I've a feeling that Grappler LS drivers may have a fit with ATM,
but I have not tested the Grappler program yet. The reason that I say
that is because Grappler LS does not support PostScript, so they say.
ATM still requires a printer driver. The one that I really like
is from DataPak. I don't know its price, though.
I understand that there are several PD/shareware drivers
out there. I believe that they are listed in Dave Small's newsletter.
At LISTSERV@RICE, there are two files which are in the domain:
DESKJET-DRIVER and DESKJET-DRIVER-MANUAL.
To get these type:
$MACARCH GET UTIL/DESKJET-DRIVER.HQX
$MACARCH GET UTIL/DESKJET-DRIVER-MANUAL.HQX
I have found that the smaller fonts are cleaner than Grappler's.
Also, you can save a lot of disk space with ATM. All you need are the
10 and 12 points of the font family to get sizes up to whatever. I'm
able to use 100 point with no problem at all.
Installation is not particularly clear via the manual (sound
familiar?). Basically, you merely install the outline fonts in
your System Folder (generous samples are on the ATM disk) and install
ATM's bitmap fonts into the System program.
ATM claims that if you already have bitmapped fonts of the same
name as that supplied by ATM, that you don't need to replace those.
However, my bitmapped fonts were really huge in space since they
went above 12 point in size. ATM only needs a maximum of 12 point
to give you beautiful type so I swapped fonts.
Obviously, if you are using a large font for a utility, such
as SuperClock, then you'd want to keep that point size. I've found
that utilities will not access ATM. ATM is only used via document
processors. Also, no skewing of characters, or character rotation
is supported by ATM.
Be sure to read on the net all the corrections that other users
will be making of my letter! I'm sure that I've goofed up somewhere
in trying to explain all of this. At any rate, ATM is a great
addition to the Spectre GCR. I love it.
Even at a list price of $99.00, it is a great program.
Larry Rymal: |East Texas Atari 68NNNers| <Z4648252@SFAUSTIN.BITNET>
------------------------------
Date: 13 Dec 89 14:02:54 GMT
From: att!dptg!lzaz!hcj@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (HC Johnson)
Subject: Directory node descriptors and AHDI
Message-ID: <884@lzaz.ATT.COM>
In article <8912130812.AA24281@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU>,
MALCOLM@tower-vax.city-poly.ac.UK writes:
> Which brings me to my
> question. When I disassembled AHDI (version 1.7 I think) I noticed that it
> contained identical pool-extension code to FOLDRXXX. So am I right in
thinking
> that if AHDI extends the pool by a large enough number of directory node
> descriptors I can throw away FOLDRXXX? I could add code to AHDI to make the
> extnension variable (duplicating the functionality of the 'XXX' in
'FOLDRXXX').
NO!
ahdi adds folders so that you can even load foldrxxx.prg (tos 1.0).
I learned this the hard way when trying to find why I had a tos1.4 problem
not on 1.0. I recompiled my ahdi clone without the folder fix and found
I could not open any files in the desktop. They had all been used in
getting there.
(Yes I'm sure the number of sub directories in c: affected my case.)
However, ahdi does not add enough for many applications.
FOLDRXXX.PRG allows you to take enough memory for your environment without
wasting too much memory.
Howard C. Johnson
ATT Bell Labs
att!lzaz!hcj
hcj@lzaz.att.com
------------------------------
Date: 13 Dec 89 16:44:12 GMT
From:
haven!uvaarpa!murdoch.acc.virginia.edu!bessel.acc.Virginia.EDU!gl8f@purdue.edu
(Greg Lindahl)
Subject: FLAMES and SUPPORT IN THE MINUS REALM
Message-ID: <1989Dec13.164412.11919@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
Although people seem to have loud ideas about what Atari should do,
I don't see many concrete suggestions in many of these postings...
In article <4905@blake.acs.washington.edu> ramsiri@blake.acs.washington.edu
(Enartloc Nhoj) writes:
! I was very fascinated with the computer's potential and I wanted to
! learn how to program the thing. Needless to say, I was shocked at how
! little information was provided when I opened my box.
How many PC Clones or Amigas come with lots of programming info out of
the box? Macs? Every wonder why? Market surveys.
! I think it would
!be a great benefit to the ATARI community if ATARI would
!provide a much improved manual with their systems as well
!as a package priced reasonably that could be purchased by
!an "end-user" that would give a clear and accurate image
!of what's inside the plastic casing.
What don't you like about the current 3rd party books about
programming the ST? I don't think they're perfect, but they
were certainly good enough to let me write GEM applications.
------
Greg Lindahl
------------------------------
Date: 13 Dec 89 18:25:41 GMT
From: pasteur!cory.Berkeley.EDU!soohoo@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (Ken "nmi" Soohoo)
Subject: FLAMES and SUPPORT IN THE MINUS REALM
Message-ID: <20633@pasteur.Berkeley.EDU>
In article <24958@cup.portal.com> Bob_BobR_Retelle@cup.portal.com writes:
>Just one question in this discussion...
>
>If Atari has such a low opinion of the "end users" who buy their machines,
>and can assume that 90% of them only want to run programs, not write them,
>why has Atari traditionally supplied a *programming language* with the
>computers..?
>
>In fact, my ST came with *two* programming languages...
>
>BobR
Bob,
It seems to me that supplying a language like Basic fits exactly into
the type of support that Atari is capable of providing at the moment --
they'll supply a language to everyone if they don't need to tell them
what they're doing wrong when they get bugs using it. Anyone can go
out and buy a Basic book and figure it out themselves.
Keep in mind that Atari is a _small_ company, the programmers that you
see on the net are a _sizable_ portion of their entire programming staff.
We all work really hard to give people support, but we've got jobs to
do also, and don't read news all day. Atari _has_ a technical support
person, for developers, but then again, resources are limited.
Now, you're gonna say "why doesn't Atari release all their documentation
instead of hiding it, then people would stop clamouring about support."
Unfortunately, this ain't true. The more people have documentation
from Atari, the more they feel that they can ask Atari about problems
with their programs. The staff required to support a book like DE RE ATARI
is HUGE, GIGANTIC, and was nice at the time, but the Tramiel's Atari
doesn't run on that kinda $$.
You _can_ get all the documentation you need to write fine Atari GEM based
programs out of MWC's manual, or books like "Programming the Atari ST",
which is a fine book... And I like to use the "Programmer's Guide to GEM",
although it's also fraught with frustrating translations between IBM and
Atari world GEMs, and some things that are just plain wrong. If you want,
you can grab the Atari developer's docs for about $100 (last I checked,
don't quote me on it ;-)). That's a fine reference manual, as long as
you're used to 'man' pages... ;-).
Woah, been on a soapbox for a little there...
Um, ok, seriously, I know the end user's gonna buy the ST for a little
programming work, but the moment they start thinking about _real_
programming, they should go out and buy a good C compiler (or pick your
favorite language). Is it _really_ the job of Atari to supply the
end user with the language(s) and documentation for the price they
charge you for the computer? Ok, I don't think so. I think it's
_perfectly reasonable_ to charge for that kind of software and docs,
which you'll note, Apple does too ;-). It's a service, just like
anything else in the computer world, and you're gonna have to pay.
Developers _do_ get discounts on hardware... They _do_ have someone to
call when they've got problems... You gotta pay.
Atari doesn't have a low opinion of the end user, it has simply reduced
what it ships with the machine to what it deems is the lowest common
denominator among the buyers of the machine -- what _everyone_ is gonna
find useful. Thus the prices remain low, and you get something neato.
If you want more, ok, you'll have to buy it, but _what_ you buy is
now up to _you_, and not Atari. They don't spend your money _for_ you.
--Kenneth "kens" Soohoo (soohoo@cory.Berkeley.Edu)
Atari Hacker (Atari's Hacker...)
"It could be worse, you could get hit by a bus..."
My opinions are my OWN, _not_ necessarily Atari's. But "hey", who knows?
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Dec 89 16:04:19 MEZ
From: Theo Schmid <UZR514%DBNRHRZ1.BITNET@Forsythe.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Mahjong and Drachen
I'm playing Mah-jong and I knew Drachen.
1.: The pieces are the same in both games.
Exactly as Dale Schumacher discribe them.
2.: Mah-Jong is a game like rummy, but Drachen is more like patience.
If someone wants to know the Rules: I'm able to post them.
Theo <UZR514EDBNRHRZ1>
Acknowledge-To: <UZR514@DBNRHRZ1>
------------------------------
Date: (null)
From: (null)
To: info-atari16
Subject: uniterm
Greetings
Is there a way of redefining the keyboard in uniterm such as in
MS-KERMIT? In particular I would like the delete key to send a
~[[3? and shifted arrow keys to send ~[[5? and the like. I use
an AT and MS-KERMIT with a home brew keyboard map to emulate
a vt200/svt1220 keyboard with our Sperry. I would like to do the
same type of thing with uniterm but as far as I can tell I can
only redefine the function keys. Any help would be appreciated.
Norm Frech ( frech@MWRAAA.ARMY.MIL )
=============================================================================
"Verbatum regurgitation is against my principles". Neal - The Young Ones
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: (null)
From: (null)
To: info-atari16
Subject: Dealers
Greetings.
After reading the glowing reviews of tos 1.4 on this digest I decided
to call my local dealer here in St. Louis, Missouri (The only Atari
dealer in this area that I know of) and get a price. Guess what, they
do not have tos 1.4 and do not know when they will get it!!!
My dealer is Randall's Home Computers
6166 Howdershell
St. Louis, Missouri
Anybody at Atari out there?
Norm Frech
frech@mwraaa.army.mil
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End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #800
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