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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 90 Issue 113
=========================================================================
INFO-ATARI16 Digest Sun, 28 Jan 90 Volume 90 : Issue 113
Today's Topics:
ARC 6.02 bugs
Beckemeyer multitasking thingamajiggy
Chaos Strikes Back (Sort of Spoilers)
ICONE2
MICRO RTX vs. MT C-Shell and VSH
Need dumped GNUEmacs 18.55
Personal pascal v2 for sale
Shareware Policy.
ST S/ware Rental Places
Technical Documentation (
TOS 1.4/1.6 problems - they never end do they :-)
Windows
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 18:52:07 GMT
From: shlump.nac.dec.com!engage.enet.dec.com!oldtmr!wallace@decwrl.dec.com (Ray
Wallace)
Subject: ARC 6.02 bugs
Message-ID: <1447@engage.enet.dec.com>
In article <1919@laura.UUCP>, klute@heike.informatik.uni-dortmund.de (Rainer
Klute) writes...
>In article <1439@engage.enet.dec.com> wallace@oldtmr.dec.com (Ray Wallace)
writes:
>>I'm also curious why ARC 6.02 causes these shells to bomb. They have survied
>Please lookup article <1913@laura.UUCP> again! There I
>explained that Arc 6.02 supports the extended argument passing
Rainer, I wrote that before your explanation arrived at our site. Remember
USENET articles do not arrive at all sites at the same time (not neccesarily
even in a timely manner :-).
Thanks for the explanation of the problem. I had not realised there were
programs that used the extended argument passing "mechanism".
---
Ray Wallace
(INTERNET,UUCP) wallace@oldtmr.enet.dec.com
(UUCP) ...!decwrl!oldtmr.enet!wallace
(INTERNET) wallace%oldtmr.enet@decwrl.dec.com
---
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 18:36:06 GMT
From: cunixc!cunixa.cc.columbia.edu!cmm1@columbia.edu (Christopher M Mauritz)
Subject: Beckemeyer multitasking thingamajiggy
Message-ID: <2718@cunixc.cc.columbia.edu>
Did anyone manage to get a complete version of Beckemeyer's shareware RTX?
I've heard good things about it. However, the copy that we received
at our site (good ol' Columbia U) had some sort of error in the uuencoded
file and produced a bad archive. Could some kind soul email it to me? I
would be VERY grateful.
I am going to use my ST to drive a multiline BBS and I wanted to see if
the RTX would make my life much easier or not.
Thanks.
Chris Mauritz
------------------------------+---------------------------
Chris Mauritz |Where there's a BEER,
cmm1@cunixa.cc.columbia.edu |there's a plan.
(c)All rights reserved. |
Send flames to /dev/null |Need I say more?
------------------------------+---------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 16:54:45 GMT
From: psuvm!sml108@psuvax1.cs.psu.edu
Subject: Chaos Strikes Back (Sort of Spoilers)
Message-ID: <90026.115445SML108@PSUVM.BITNET>
Hi, having just finished Chaos Strikes Back, I have a few questions for anyone
else who has completed it or is near completion...
For the task that you need the green gem for, I seemed unable to achieve the
objective despite having the green gem. Any ideas?
Also, has anyone figured out what the orange gems are good for?
Did anyone find the armor of sar? I only found the shield...
Also, where were the RA keys located? I got one from a knight I believe
but I never found a second one.
All in all, I was surprised how fresh the game was and although it used
invisible doors a little too much (annoyingly so at times), I really enjoyed
it and now want to go back through and trash monsters for the
hell of it....
Anyone else done yet?
Scott Le Grand aka sml1082psuvm.psu.edu
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 06:44:54 GMT
From: mcsun!sunic!nuug!ifi!m2cs.uu.no!tomas@uunet.uu.net (Tomas Felner)
Subject: ICONE2
Message-ID: <1990Jan26.064454.12622@m2cs.uu.no>
MAXG@SUVM.BITNET ("Gerry Greenberg: 315-443-5378") writes:
>I got icone2 from the panarthea archives yesterday, but was unable to
>unarc it so that it would work. I was able to get icone.acc, icone.rsc,
>and icones.rsc, but I would only get bombs when the acc would try to
>load. Has anyone ever used this acc? Thanks.
>--Gerry
>maxg@suvm (bitnet)
>ggreenbe@rodan.acs.syr.edu (internet)
Yes, I have been using it for a long time (ca. 1.5 years or more). It's
a little program that replaces the desktop icons (the ones for files and
folders) by much nicer ones. You can set wildcards for the various icons
and you can even create your own ones. It's really neat and I love it.
However, if you have one of those alternate desktops, you won't need it
since those desktops have icons on their own.
As far as I know the accessory is written in a non portable way. It
assumes TOS 1.2 (Blitter-TOS), and patches the TOS directly (I don't
know this for sure, it's just a rumour). Because of this I don't expect
it to run under TOS 1.4 :-( (No, I don't have TOS 1.4 yet :-(()
--
Tomas Felner
Modula-2 CASE Systems AS | Internet: tomas@m2cs.uu.no
Maridalsveien 139 | Phone: +47 2 379784
N-0461 Oslo 4, Norway | FAX: +47 2 356448
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 20:06:45 GMT
From: unisoft!bdt!david@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU (David Beckemeyer)
Subject: MICRO RTX vs. MT C-Shell and VSH
Message-ID: <1021@bdt.UUCP>
Shortly after the the release of MICRO RTX as shareware, my mailbox
became flooded with "What does it do?" "What is it?" "How do I
start two windows at the same time?" questions. Many people have
asked for more information.
There seems to be a great deal of confusion on this, so I have
prepared this brief posting.
========
Beckemeyer Development Tools Multitasking -- MICRO RTX vs. MT C-Shell
Micro RTX is a Real-Time Multitasking Executive. Micro RTX is a
general purpose operating system kernel. It is the kernel used in
the MT C-Shell system.
Micro RTX also implements multitasking TOS compatibility. It
implements all the GEMDOS and BIOS calls and adds some new
TOS-level calls as well.
Micro RTX is not an end-user application and includes no intrinsic
interactive programs. It is more like a subroutine library; RTX by
itself doesn't do anything. Micro RTX is a tool for developing
stand-alone multitasking applications. MT C-Shell is an RTX
application that emulates a UNIX environment. Micro RTX is very
simple and general purpose. It has very few fundmendal limitations
and is easy to customize via program extensions and "hooks". MT
C-Shell installs hooks into RTX that support a UNIX-like multitasking
multiuser environment. MT C-Shell actually extends the RTX kernel,
just as any other RTX program could.
The standard (non RTX) TOS system breaks down roughly as follows:
Application Program and its Libraries
|
v Application Layer
============
| System Services Layer
v
GEM AES services
|
v
GEM VDI services
|
v
GEMDOS services
|
v
BIOS services
|
v
XBIOS services
|
v
Line A services
The system services are not perfectly layered. An application may
actually use a set of services at various layers in a number of
acceptable combinations (e.g. GEMDOS only, AES/VDI only, AES/VDI
and BIOS etc.) Non graphics applications (e.g. .TOS or .TTP)
typically won't use the GEM services. Some graphics applictions
may bypass the VDI and use Line A directly.
MICRO RTX installs replacement GEMDOS and BIOS system services and
installs a new set of "MICRO RTX" services. Applications that use
the normal system services won't be affected. However, applications
that "know" about the new services can take advantage of advanced
system features for multitasking, interprocess communication etc.
MICRO RTX provides the low-level building blocks for building a
higher-level OS interface. Such an interface is demonstrated in
MT C-Shell and the VSH Visual Shell. RTX could also be the
basis of a stand-alone application which could benefit from
multitasking, such as TurboPOS, where multitasking and interprocess
communications services of MICRO RTX are used in a sophisticated
multi-user distributed data-base system, based on the client-server
model.
VSH is an "outer-layer" to the basic MT C-Shell which provides
a GEM windowing interface. It sets up device drivers and a GEM
application/accessory to manage "virtual terminals", running
commands inside GEM windows, even while another GEM application
is running at the same time.
Networking is another application benefiting from multitasking,
where server tasks can run "in the background". This is used
in our Point-of-Sale cash register network and several other
BDT internal applications.
SUMMARY
MICRO RTX loads into the AUTO folder and just sits in memory
until some program uses it. It provides a bunch of new
system services for applications. It just does what it's
told by programs -- IT HAS NO INTRINSIC USER INTERFACE!
MT C-Shell and VSH are examples of programs that use the
extended services offered by MICRO RTX, to implement a
multitasking/multiuser Unix-like system with GEM windowing.
TurboPOS is an example of a program that uses the extended
services of MICRO RTX to implement a multiuser point-of-sale
distributed database system with an optional cash register
network.
I guess I just don't know how to say it any clearer. If
it still doesn't make sense, please don't ask me "What is RTX?".
If it isn't clear from the above, then there's no way you'll
ever be able to use MICOR RTX for anything anyway, so just
pass over it and wait for somebody to develop a nice friendly
front-end to it.
--
David Beckemeyer (david@bdt.UUCP) | "I'll forgive you Dad... If you have
Beckemeyer Development Tools | a breath mint."
P.O. Box 21575, Oakland, CA 94620 | Bart - "The Simpsons"
UUCP: ?uunet,ucbvax?!unisoft!bdt!david |
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 18:39:39 GMT
From: shlump.nac.dec.com!engage.enet.dec.com!oldtmr!wallace@decwrl.dec.com (Ray
Wallace)
Subject: Need dumped GNUEmacs 18.55
Message-ID: <1446@engage.enet.dec.com>
In article <16000002@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu>, cs121ta1@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu writes...
>I want to use GNU Emacs 18.55, but there's just no way that I can manage
>the dumping process on my one-drive, 1040ST. Is there any reason why I
This is a new one for me, what to you mean by "the dumping process" and
"dumped xemacs"?
---
Ray Wallace
(INTERNET,UUCP) wallace@oldtmr.enet.dec.com
(UUCP) ...!decwrl!oldtmr.enet!wallace
(INTERNET) wallace%oldtmr.enet@decwrl.dec.com
---
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 90 02:56:59 GMT
From: ogicse!blake!ski2@decwrl.dec.com (Chris Kacoroski)
Subject: Personal pascal v2 for sale
Message-ID: <5491@blake.acs.washington.edu>
I have an unused copy of Personal Pascal V2 for sale. I found my self
doing most of my work in C or LISP. Three languages are too much for
me to remember. From the little that I have used it, PP seems to be a
very good package. Please respond via e-mail or call me at
206-789-7511 or 206-237-6034 if you are interested.
PS: I also have a Star NX1000 printer for sale for $125.
--
*****************************************************************
Chris Kacoroski ski2@blake.acs.washington.edu
University of Washington
Seattle, WA
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 90 00:03:51 GMT
From:
cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watcgl!electro!ignac@tut.c
is.ohio-state.edu (Ignac Kolenko)
Subject: Shareware Policy.
Message-ID: <1289@electro.UUCP>
In article <9001281112.AA19328@ucbvax.Berkeley.EDU> AMEIJ@vax.oxford.ac.UK (Jan
Ameij) writes:
>by this particular piece of software (when I tried Quick ST it caused endless
>difficulties and with real relief I deleted it. That's why _I_ didn't pay a
>shareware fee!), but it reminds me of something that's been bugging me for a
wow, what version did you last try??? i admit that versions 1.2-1.5 had quite
a few problems, but the last demo version posted (1.6d) was quite robust.
>I think shareware is a dead good idea, but I do think authors could make things
>easier for us users who are willing to pay. To wit, how are we Europeans
>supposed to get the dosh to North Maerican authors? Have you thought of that,
well, up until we went commercial, about 150 or so registered users of Quick
ST (about 30% of registered owner) were from Europe (UK,
France, Germany, Sweden, Norway, etc etc etc) and
none really complained that there was no way of ordering from europe.
>eh? After all, Europe is the spiritual home of the ST, but NA is on the fringe.
a good point. that's precicely the reason we've gone to commercial marketing
of Quick ST since we feel it's more than a match to that other screen
accellerator (T* ST) and that europeans should benifit from having an
inexpensive alternative to the overpriced screen accellerator that was
mentionned earlier. we're right now in the process of getting a hold of
some european distributors so we can get our product out to the ST world in as
short a time as possible.
>I can write cheques in any European currency, as can most over here, but
>practically nobody can easily send money to America. The same maybe applies to
>americans wanting to pay for European shareware...
like i said before, it can't be THAT difficult since none of our european
shareware customers has really complained like this before.
is there a reason that you guys across the pond can't get american dollars
easily?? is it due to the european economic community?? fortress europe not
allowing easy access to north american products?? there must be a reason.
brits who have paid in pounds sterling have not caused us any problems. just
a simple exchange at the bank gets pounds changed to dollars. is the reverse
not true??
another effective idea is for europeans to register for shareware products
in as large a group as possible (ie: 4 or 5 users at one time) this way the
exchange costs are shared by as many users as possible, cutting costs for
individuals, but again, you europeans should get after your governments
to allow low cost exchanges between your favourite currency to american
dollars.
>Just a suggestion, but I think it's a good one. And I might even try Quick ST
>if I could try it first. After my previous experience I wouldn't touch a
>commercial version with a bargepole!
well, that's your opinion, but it would have been nice to say which version
you had problems with before spouting bad publicity. i hope your bargepole is a
short one! :-)
--
=======Ignac A. Kolenko (The Ig)===========watmath!watcgl!electro!ignac=======
co-author of QuickST, and the entire line of Quick Software!!!!
Branch Always Software Box 2624, Station B, Kitchener, Ont. CANADA N2H 6N2
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 19:25:11 GMT
From: haven!uvaarpa!murdoch!astsun8.astro.Virginia.EDU!gl8f@ames.arc.nasa.gov
(Greg Lindahl)
Subject: ST S/ware Rental Places
Message-ID: <1990Jan26.192511.1350@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU>
In article <26640@brunix.UUCP> rjd@cs.brown.edu (Rob Demillo) writes:
[...]
>
>However: software rental places are open inventations for all the
>non-Gregs and non-Phils to easily copy (i.e. STEAL) software. If there
>was a proliferation of software rental places, how long do you think
>software manufactures would stay in business?
Software rental places can make the symptoms of software piracy worse.
But attacking them is attacking a symptom, not a cause. So educate the
users, don't put legitimate businesses serving a legitimate need out
of business. (We have already show you several situations in which
renting serves a real need: extended demos of expensive packages and
dealers who refuse to demo software.)
[...]
>I *can't* think of an analogous example because there *isn't* one.
How about this: You can't rent a hotel room in North Carolina (for you
non-USA people, that's a state in the USA) unless you are 21. It
seems that the legislators are scared that younger *adults* might be
*fornicating* in these hotel rooms, which is illegal. Instead of
dealing with the cause, they treat the symptoms by taking away the
rights of everyone between age 18 and 21. I admit it, I have violated
this law, although I didn't even fornicate. But, I must admit, it
would have been quick and easy to fornicate in that hotel room.
Finally, can we take this discussion somewhere else? It doesn't have
anything to do with the ST anymore.
Greg Lindahl
gl8f@virginia.edu Astrophysicists for Choice.
------------------------------
Date: 28 Jan 90 10:09:00 GMT
From:
cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!torsqnt!tmsoft!masnet!canremote!ron.sharp
@tut.cis.ohio-state.edu (RON SHARP)
Subject: Technical Documentation (
Message-ID: <90012818034046@masnet.uucp>
The situation isn't quite as bad as my somewhat heated post made out.
There are a number of books such as the Abacus ST Internals book
(translated from German). The manuals with various C compilers are also
quite good. However, it is questionable that new books will continue to
be released which follow the changes in the ST line.
My prize piece of Atari documentation is the SRM Tackle Box, which is a
large binder full of information. The Tackle Box is not made anymore
however.
My flash of anger was sparked by the policy that registered developers
are not allowed to devulge information. (Or answer techical questions
on this network, I presume.) So that any non-Atari information is
"discovered" by hacking around. I really doubt this cuts down on
misinformation.
This seems to be a long-time Atari problem -- As I recall, the 8 bit
Atari computers lagged behind for years because no one besides Atari had
any information about the machine.
Down to my last minute of connect time. Better go now.
---
? QNet 2.03: The Crystal Palace * NorthAmeriNet * Toronto (416) 925-5742 *
------------------------------
Date: 29 Jan 90 00:10:37 GMT
From:
cs.utexas.edu!jarvis.csri.toronto.edu!utgpu!watserv1!watcgl!electro!ignac@tut.c
is.ohio-state.edu (Ignac Kolenko)
Subject: TOS 1.4/1.6 problems - they never end do they :-)
Message-ID: <1290@electro.UUCP>
In article <90Jan27.165836est.58957@ugw.utcs.utoronto.ca> 01659@AECLCR.BITNET
(Greg Csullog) writes:
>Another problem; once in a while a double click on an appl brings
>up the show/print/cancel dialog box because the system does not
>recognize that a .prg file has been accessed. What the heck is
>going on with the new TOS????
actually, this seems to be a problem with TOS 1.4 as well, since it's
happened to me a couple of times. double clicking on the file again usually
gets the ST to recognize that the file is indeed a .prg, and run it
appropriately.
on a related topic, has anyone with TOS 1.4 had this problem: the system
sometimes boots up, displays the current windows and drive icons, and
then for some inexplicable reason, erases all drive icons off of the
screen. i can get them back by clicking on where they should be, but
this behaviour is quite bizarre, and frankly, quite anoying at times.
--
=======Ignac A. Kolenko (The Ig)===========watmath!watcgl!electro!ignac=======
co-author of QuickST, and the entire line of Quick Software!!!!
Branch Always Software Box 2624, Station B, Kitchener, Ont. CANADA N2H 6N2
=============================================================================
------------------------------
Date: 26 Jan 90 19:56:18 GMT
From:
zaphod.mps.ohio-state.edu!uwm.edu!csd4.csd.uwm.edu!markez@tut.cis.ohio-state.ed
u (Mark R Zbikowski)
Subject: Windows
Message-ID: <2101@uwm.edu>
There is a program on my local system call UW, which is a
multiple-window Macintosh interface to UNIX. Is there any way to use
this as an interface to my ST? Is it like X-windows? If not, what is
X-windows?
Thanx in advance.
Mark Zbikowski
(markez@csd4.csd.uwm.edu)
------------------------------
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V90 Issue #113
*****************************************
