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Info-Atari16 Digest Vol. 89 Issue 613
INFO-ATARI16 Digest Mon, 6 Nov 89 Volume 89 : Issue 613
Today's Topics:
A Unix box and its cost
GEMDOS Extended Argument Spec (LONG)
Source code to display Spectrum-type images?
TT Unix, X Windows and slots.
TT vs 386 boxes and Apples...
VME bus
VMEbus information
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 7 Nov 89 00:06:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: A Unix box and its cost
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / ATT3B@UCONNVM.BITNET (Martin Stein) / 2:57 pm Nov
5, 1989 */
> The biggest problem, however, of the TT is the price.
> ... So the TT will have
> a hard stand against '386 Unix machines, which are down to about $4000 *now*.
> In the newest Byte are adds for ?$5000 '486 machines! And that price will
> get lower, too.
You can get a 386 Unix box with hard disc and monochrome graphics monitor
for less than $2000 *NOW*. And 8 expantion slots.
A friend of mine got a 386 box with 4Meg Ram 800x600x16clours VGa
and 71Mb 18ms hard disk two floppies (1.2M and 1.44M) etc. for $3000.
You use unix for your hacking and some MSDOS compatibility windows
for standard applications and other powerful software developed
for that silly chip which calls itself a microprocessor.
Nobody has mentioned the amazingly low cost of extentions of a 386 box.
A hard disk, a floppy, I/O ports, modems, Memory...
Who can beat those prices?
***********************************************
Closer to the point:
Can Atari give a Unix box with
- Many expantion slots
- Lots of memory
- High res color monitor
- Fast and big hard disk
- High Density floppies, I/O ports etc.
-*Availability of the cheapest expantion boards around
-*Availability of the most powerful software applications around
BTW: Intel supports a binary standard for Unix V.4 running on 386
for much less than $3000 (as the 386 box I can get now)?
That is what I would call power without the price.
I wish they could do that. But how realistic is it to expect it?
Thanasis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard?
Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!" R. A. Heinlein
Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
UUCP : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 89 19:31:32 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!sbsvax!roeder@uunet.uu.net (Edgar Roeder)
Subject: GEMDOS Extended Argument Spec (LONG)
In article <1763@atari.UUCP>, kbad@atari.UUCP (Ken Badertscher) writes:
>
> GEMDOS EXTENDED ARGUMENT (ARGV) SPECIFICATION
...
> Because there is no limit on the length of the environment, arbitrary
> length arguments are supported. Arguments placed in the environment
Maybe this has changed in TOS 1.4, but in TOS 1.2 there was still a limit
of 32 kByte for the environment. This is enough for most applications, but
is different from "no limit".
It's nice to have an official standard for extended argument passing. Can we
hope that this will be integrated in future TOS versions (1.8) ?
> --
> ||| Ken Badertscher (ames!atari!kbad)
> ||| Atari R&D System Software Engine
> / | \ #include <disclaimer>
- Edgar
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 89 20:53:11 GMT
From: eru!luth!sunic!kullmar!pkmab!daniel@bloom-beacon.mit.edu (Daniel Deimert)
Subject: Source code to display Spectrum-type images?
I do have I do have some sources in pure 68k assembler. But I don't
know if I can post them to the net. If this isn't against the copyright
laws, Antic publishing must be able to post the ORIGINAL sources themselves.
That would do them a favour, since the program would be more commonly
used.
Otherwise, buy SHOWSPC (I do think it's PD) and disassemble it. Nobody
can blame you for that, I think.
--
Daniel Deimert, Fridstav. 4, S-715 94 Odensbacken, SWEDEN
Internet: daniel@pkmab.se
UUCP: ...?uunet,mcvax?!sunic.sunet.se!kullmar!pkmab!daniel
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 89 23:54:00 GMT
From: acf5!mitsolid@nyu.edu (Thanasis Mitsolides)
Subject: TT Unix, X Windows and slots.
/* acf5:comp.sys.atari.st / ATT3B@UCONNVM.BITNET (Martin Stein) / 2:57 pm Nov
5, 1989 */
> The biggest problem, however, of the TT is the price.
> ... So the TT will have
> a hard stand against '386 Unix machines, which are down to about $4000 *now*.
> In the newest Byte are adds for ?$5000 '486 machines! And that price will
> get lower, too.
You can get a 386 Unix box with hard disc and monochrome graphics monitor
for less than $2000 *NOW*. And 8 expantion slots.
A friend of mine got a 386 box with 4Meg Ram 800x600x16clours VGa
and 71Mb 18ms hard disk two floppies (1.2M and 1.44M) etc. for $3000.
You use unix for your hacking and some MSDOS compatibility windows
for standard applications and other powerful software developed
for that silly chip which calls itself a microprocessor.
Nobody has mentioned the amazingly low cost of extentions of a 386 box.
A hard disk, a floppy, I/O ports, modems, Memory...
Who can beat those prices?
Can Atari give a Unix box with
- Many expantion slots
- Lots of memory
- High res color monitor
- Fast and big hard disk
- High Density floppies, I/O ports etc.
-*Availability of the cheapest expantion boards around
-*Availability of the most powerful software applications around
for much less than $3000 (as the 386 box I can get now)?
That is what I would call power without the price.
I wish they could do that. But how realistic is it to expect it?
Thanasis
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you pray hard enough, water will run uphill. How Hard?
Why, hard enough to make water run uphill, of cource!" R. A. Heinlein
Internet: mitsolid@csd2.nyu.edu (mitsolid%csd2.nyu.edu@relay.cs.net)
UUCP : ...!uunet!cmcl2!csd2!mitsolid
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 89 17:43:10 GMT
From: thelake!steve@UMN-CS.CS.UMN.EDU (Steve Yelvington)
Subject: TT vs 386 boxes and Apples...
In article <1989Nov4.164133.17343@newcastle.ac.uk>,
q1cbw@turing.newcastle.ac.uk (D.C. Halliday) writes ...
>There seems to be some confusion over the availability of the ATW. As far as I
>know it is available here in the UK to the public at large if thay can afford
>the price tag. This university has 2 and may be getting some more.
>
> Dave Halliday.
Judging from an item in the U.S. magazine Computer Graphics World, the ATW
appears to have been announced, although with Atari Corp.'s blundering
public relations department it's hard to tell.
(Why is it that every time Sun sells more than a trunkload of SPARC
machines there's an item in the New York Times, but Atari can pop up with
something like the ATW and it's a better-kept secret than Zsa Zsa Gabor's
real age? For that matter, why did Atari push its "business" Mega by
distributing photos showing a childlike Neochrome drawing of a robot?)
The article says:
"Atari Computer (Sunnyvale, CA), best known for its PCs and video games,
is now testing the waters of the graphics workstation market. Designed for
CAD and other graphics-intensive applications, the new ATW (Atari
Transputer Workstation) combines the Inmos T800-20 microprocessor with
Atari's proprietary Blossom graphics processor. It has a suggested list
price of $7995."
The article then quotes a Cambridge, Mass., marketing research honcho who
throws cold water on the whole idea and says it's "difficult to see how
Atari's going to make a splash at this point."
The article, written by CGW associate editor Debra Rosenberg, includes a
lot of numbers (4 to 16MB of RAM for the T800, 512K to 4MB for the 68000
coprocessor, 80MB hard disk, resolution "from 1200-by-960 to 512-by-480."
It makes no mention of the Transputer's ability to be combined with other
Transputers for parallel processing, which I thought was the whole point
of the ATW. It identifies Helios as "Atari's version of Unix." It quotes
Atari as saying Dynacad, Autocad, Versacad and other applications are in
development.
An accompanying photograph shows a Mega keyboard and what appears to be a
Hitachi 18-inch color monitor. The CPU box is not shown. The monitor
display has a number of images, both graphic and text, in overlapping
windows. (The story quotes Atari as saying it will run X Windows 11.2, C,
Modula-2, Fortran 77, Lisp, Prolog, BASIC, Occam and Strand.)
-- Steve Yelvington, up at the lake in Minnesota
... pwcs.StPaul.GOV!stag!thelake!steve (UUCP)
------------------------------
Date: 6 Nov 89 17:39:33 GMT
From: mcsun!unido!tub!tmpmbx!netmbx!hase@uunet.uu.net (Hartmut Semken)
Subject: VME bus
In article <809@carroll1.UUCP> dnewton@carroll1.cc.edu (Dave 'Post No Nicknames'
Newton) writes:
>Question: I know absolutely nothing about the VME bus except that it exists.
>Are the slots individually addressed?
The VME BUS is a real BUS: all slots are just connected 1:1.
It is therfore possible to build a tranceiver card driving a backplane
to get more slots for a 1-slot TT.
Drivers and backplanes are pretty expensive; probably thats the reason
for Atari to exclude the backplane...
hase
--
Hartmut Semken, Lupsteiner Weg 67, 1000 Berlin 37 hase@netmbx.UUCP
Dennis had stepped up into the top seat whet its founder had died of a
lethal overdose of brick wall, taken while under the influence of a
Ferrari and a bottle of tequila. (Douglas Adams; the long dark teatime...)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 06 Nov 89 14:31:34 -0900
From: <FNDDR%ALASKA.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: VMEbus information
After reading all of the bazzfazz about the alleged TT VME slot, it seems
to me that there are a lot of misinformed/disinformed people when it comes
to VMEbus. May I suggest reading the following before continuing:
IEEE Standard for a Versatile Backplane Bus: VMEbus
ANSI/IEEE Std 1014-1987; ISBN 0-471-61601-X
Available from IEEE for about $25 (don't have the price list at hand)
The VMEbus Handbook by Wade D. Peterson (no ISBN) - $44.95 postpaid
VITA - The VMEbus International Trade Association
10229 N. Scottsdale Rd, Suite B
Scottsdale, AZ 85253
(These guys don't take credit cards, send a check)
VITA also sells a 354-page book, the VMEbus Compatible Products Directory.
Want to speed up your system with a AMD Am29000 RISC board with 16MB RAM?
No problem. You want an internal modem? Motorola has some for VMEbus,
5 or 10 Mb/s, take your pick. You can even get 286 and 386 PC compatibles
that plug into a VME slot. All it takes is money. Most of the above
are in the $5-10K range for the basic board, more for extra RAM or whatever.
VMEbus isn't for weekend warriors, it is for industrial and scientific users
with big budgets. The cost of the TT will probably be a negligible part of
a VMEbus project.
If Atari is in fact going with VMEbus, it takes a lot of guts. We'll just
have to wait and see if it works out. I just hope they don't do something
really stupid, like release an "almost but not quite standard" version,
as with the use of "ACSI" rather than full SCSI on the STs. But if they
do it right, they may take a piece of the action in the workstation wars.
Don Rice
FNDDR@ALASKA.bitnet
None of the above has anything to do with what I'm working on, so it doesn't
need a disclaimer like this one.
------------------------------
End of INFO-ATARI16 Digest V89 Issue #613
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