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Cousins Issue 04
COUSINS ISSUE #4 - March 1992
A place for the Witches, pagans, nature spirits, fey-folk, and assorted elder
kin of Sherwood to share ideas, challenges, dreams, and projects, and to stir
up a little magic of our own.
for more information about Cousins, contact Susan Gavula,
sjgavula@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu
This Issue's Fun Word: TRANSDIMENSIONAL
I made this one up myself to describe anyone or anything to which time
and space are relative rather than absolute. A transdimensional gateway
defies Euclidean physics. A transdimensional being thinks that's just
fine. Herne is transdimensional; the old man is not.
I'll just keep making up words and saying whatever I want to until you
come up with a better idea. (And probably after that, too!)
LETTERS
Janet VanMeter Merry Meet everyone!
I want to say how much I enjoyed seeing more responses from men in
Issue #3! I would really like to hear more of the male point of view
concerning RoS.
Anyway, down to business...I have just muddled my way through "The
White Goddess" by Robert Graves. He mentions that the word or title of
Tanist probably originates from the Celtic 'tinne,' or holly tree, and
that Tanist stands for the Holly King who takes over from the Oak King
after Midsummer. I know it's really tempting to equate Loxley and
Huntingdon with the Holly and Oak Kings, but I personally have a
problem with the perpetual confrontation of the Oak and the Holly. I
feel that the 'cycle' of the year is best envisioned as a neverending
death/rebirth ad infinitum of just one 'God,' as the 'Goddess' cycles
through the maid/consort/crone ad infinitum. As spring becomes summer
becomes autumn becomes winter, then all over again, there is no
'battle' between summer and winter!
Sort of a related topic...I agree with Lynn and everyone else that
thinks there were other Hooded Men. My pet thory is that Adam Bell was a
Hooded Man but for some reason turned his back on it. But I do,
however, think that Loxley did indeed die at the end of The Greatest
Enemy. Herne may have been a past Hooded Man, but I think that Loxley's
"fire burned TOO bright" and he couldn't endure long enough to take on
the mantle of Herne.
On to the garter debate...most of the peasants wore garters in those
days to keep their braies up! I feel it was a fortuitous coincidence
that Loxley happened to be wearing a certain colour of garter on one of
his legs - he did have one on the other leg too, you know! Of course,
Robert didn't have a garter, but I'm sure people will go on about poor
ol' Robert not having the 'right' to one!
As to the observances of pagan customs by the time of RoS, in the show
we did have a few references that some of these customs were remembered
in a romanticized way. In Alan A Dale, Meg dreams of "jumping through
the fire at midnight with flowers in their hair." It sounded like more
of a romantic fantasy than something that regularly happens. In Lord of
the Trees, the mummers are just entertainment, not a serious rite any
more. An interesting book on mummers and their ilk is The Hobby Horse
and Other Animal Masks by Violet Alford. It lists all types of things
from the different forms of hobby horses, to stag masks, goat masks,
and some of the traditions concerning these from all over Europe. It
would be fun to see some folk do some of these at different gatherings!
A whole room full of Hernes - is that a herd of Hernes? - would be fun!
Just two quick things to end with - heraldically, a stag is a male red
deer that has antlers that branch with pointed branches from the bottom
to the top. A buck is a male fallow deer that has antlers that are
broad and flat palmated horns. Herne is a stag.
Also really quick - Mu or Lemuria was an antediluvian civilization in
the Pacific as opposed to Atlantis that was in the Atlantic.
Christine Haire
Dear Cousins: I very much enjoyed reading the first 2 issues of Cousins
and look forward to more interesting discussion.
A little about me. I was raised in the Christian Church. Since the time
I could read I have been fascinated by studying any and all religions,
culures, and the universal archetypes. As a result, my own personal
beliefs do not match any organized religion but take from each what
connects with me spiritually. Mine is a neverending quest and I am
still learning and absorbing things all the time. Robin of Sherwood
fandom has led me down some interesting paths and I have met lots of
fascinating people with diverse backgrounds and beliefs.
I don't like the idea of putting labels on people, dividing up the
fandom into pagans and non-pagans - us and them. The harmony among the
diversity and the tolerance and interest in each others' beliefs is what
makes this fandom unique. Look at what a diverse group the Merries are.
That they live and work together for a common good is the true magic in
the series.
Raven: Regarding the feminine counterpart for Herne/Cernunnos - I
believe Janet VanMeter hit it right on the head by saying it is none
other than Sherwood Forest. Herne to me is a manifestation of the
archetype of the Green Man - as is Robin of Sherwood, Cernunnos, Jack in
the Green, the Green Knight, etc. He re-emerges again and again in
various forms in myth and folklore and religious art around the world
from ancient times to the modern day. Lord of the Trees, he is called in
RoS. In Loxley's powerful speech in RH and the Sorcerer, he says he is
fighting "for this" as he looks around at the beautiful forest
surrounding and sustaining them. The Green Man is consort to Mother
Earth.
Janet V.: Like me, you seem to have trouble putting a label on "what you
are." Pagan? Christian? You are right, I think it doesn't really matter
when it all boils down to it. Though we have shared experiences and
thoughts, everyone has their own perspective and that is what makes life
interesting. If you are interested in archetypes, I'd like to suggest a
book called Green Man: The Archetype of Our Oneness With the Earth by
William Anderson. (ISBN-0-06-250075-9, $14.95) I agree that everything
is a mixture of masculine/feminine. God or Goddess - it is all one
source of goodness.
Mary Ann: I'd like to suggest a book called The Elements of the Celtic
Tradition by Caitlin Matthews which may answer a lot of your questions.
(ISBN 1-85230-075- 2, $7.95)
As far as historical questions go, please submit them to On Target. We
have two extremely qualified individuals willing to help answer
historical questions and aid in research. Laura Chevening has a PhD in
history and teaches it in college. Cindy Fairbanks is a big history
buff, well seasoned in doing research for her own stories. They do a
regular column in the newsletter to aid folks with questions like
yours. Also, your local libraries and bookstores can provide a wealth
of information with all the great books on that period of history.
Nansi & Nancy: I can't imagine anyone in RoS "getting all offended and
hyper about the fact you hold Pagan beliefs!" Now if you were trying to
convert them, perhaps. But everyone I've met in RoS fandom is extremely
open-minded and tolerant, no matter what their personal beliefs.
Hilda: Thanks for all the hard work you have put in on Cousins. I know
you probably don't mean it that way, but I think the term "cowan" sounds
a bit derogatory. Are these labels really necessary? As you can see by
the response to Cousins, RoS fen of all different religious and cultural
backgrounds are interested in discussing all aspects of the show whether
they are "pagan" or not. The art, song, storytelling and old myths
belong to everyone.
Ariel: Brilliant article! I cheered aloud reading it! I really hope it
makes some writers think. I think Hilda is right that new writers coming
into the fandom all the time are re-exploring the same themes, which
explains some of the repetition. Sometimes I wonder if fan writers have
kept up reading other people's fan-fic but it has been some time since
they have actually sat down and watched the show or read Carpenter's
novelizations, hence the adopting of certain fan-fic ideas as canon. I'd
like to see more stories featuring the characters as they were on the
series, the complex human ones I love. Don't fan-fic writers realize
that by deifying Loxley and giving him special powers they are making
him much less a hero? If he can just snap his fingers and get out of a
bind, why didn't he in the series? He's just a man. A special man, a
chosen leader - but a man all the same. He is not perfect. But that is
what makes him human and endearing. Many stories have Guy turning good.
I think the reason may be that the writer may feel attracted to him in
the show and feel a need to justify that to herself by finding the good
in him. I like Guy as a villain! He's the darkness to Robin and his
Men's light. [Hey, don't kick me, I'm just the typist! C'mon, Marion.
It's just a linguistic const...OW!] He has shown himself to be a
sadistic, cold-blooded murderer in the series - it takes an awful lot to
overcome that. There was a fantastic Nasir story (finally!) in the last
issue of Longbow called A Saracen's Tale by Jennifer Woodson. It centers
on him and his background. Mary Sue is nowhere to be seen and it doesn't
portray him as subservient to Robin! I've often wondered why there
aren't more stories on the Merries?
Hilda: Robin and Marion are a bit thick at times, lose their tempers
[You're telling m...All right, all right, I take it back! -H], get sick
and surely go to the bathroom (together wee? sorry, couldn't resist!)
Loxley is certainly a mongrel working slob of no particular bloodline.
As portrayed in the series, the characters are human as they can be in a
TV series, although slightly more physically attractive than the average
guy or gal we run into in our neck of the woods. (sigh!) In any case, I
find the characters as written and portrayed in the series fantasy
enough without going totally overboard and endowing them with grand
magical powers, thus distorting the characters so completely as to be
unrecognizable. I love the stories that bring in elements of myth and
magic, don't get me wrong. I just don't like to see these very real
characters turned into cartoon super-heroes. I'm not in He-Man and She-
Ra fandom. Just my opinion (blather, blather!)
Laura: I agree that the characters don't seem all that religious to me.
They seem to be fighting for a common good - all for one and one for
all, [You had to say that... -H] no matter their backgrounds.
Regarding Gulnar/Morgwyn/Belleme. They are not meant to represent
Wiccans or Pagans. Satanism is a perversion of Christianity. Richard
Carpenter seemed to show two sides to every story in RoS. The powers of
light and darkness. These three are just power hungry psychos. To dispel
the cliches he had Herne, Robin and his Men, Jennet of Elsdon, Mad Mab,
Isadora, Ailric, Edward and Alison, etc.
Loxley makes a lot of mistakes in the show - he is not perfect. See
Richard the Lionheart and The Enchantment for some prime examples. I
find him particularly attractive because he is not perfect.
Tina: I don't think Herne himself, as represented in the show, is
supposed to be a God. "When the Horned One possesses me, I am Herne the
Hunter." So the man with the horns is a type of priest or medium for the
Green Man. "You see your God become man before your eyes," he says when
he is hurt and bleeding in Lord of the Trees. Robin then takes his
place. Perhaps this is the natural progression? What do you all think?
Lynn: I don't know if Kip necessarily used Craft belief in The Greatest
Enemy. I disagree with the idea of the Sacrificial King business. What
purpose did his death serve except to write out an actor and give him
"an unforgettable exit from the show" - according to Kip?
Janet: Let me preface my response to you by saying I love your poetry
and many of your RoS stories that I've read. I've even been lucky enough
to illo some of them. But, I disagree totally with what you said on the
fan-fic characters. I'd like to read stories with good copies of
Carpenter's characters put into situations previously unexplored. That
is fan fiction. If you are going to do something that is a complete
departure from the series, I don't feel you should try to pass it off as
Robin of Sherwood. Go out and write something completely original in
that case. Oh, certainly writers can and should put something of
themselves into their fan-fic - the part that drew them to the series
itself in the first place. Not something that doesn't belong there.
Aargh! Obviously, Marion is not Robert's main reason for being an outlaw
- she was merely a catalyst. She leaves him after her rescue and yet he
remains in the forest after The Time of the Wolf. He saw injustice in
the world. He saw his father forced to be the King's puppet. He was
called by Herne and chose to do something about it. Boy, for someone who
is supposedly a "Loxley fan," I spend an inordinate amount of time going
around defending Robert! (Who I truly love just as much as Loxley.)
Well, now that I have typed this epistle, Issue 3 of Cousins just
arrived in the mail! I'll hold off before answering that. Julianne did
contact me about the planned get-togethers at Weekend in Sherwood. We
think it is a great idea for you all to hold room partie(s). Also on the
schedule for the convention is a panel on the subject of "Paganism in
RoS" which we hope you will all attend. Thank you so much Hilda for
your kind words and understanding of what we go through running the
club. It is support like yours that keeps us going.
Mark Ryan
Dear Hilda and Cousins,
Many thanks for sending me Cousins and keeping the spirit of R.o.S.
alive and kicking in an open discussion format that is fun and
informative.
I have gasped and giggled at items in the newsletter, ranging from the
"I didn't know that!" Type of gasp to the "that's taking the piss!" Type
of giggle. And I feel honored to have a new breed of deity named after
me - "Marketypes." Who's responsible for that one? Seriously, I love it,
keep up the good work.
Anyway, I just thought you might like to know Mike Grell and I are still
trying to get a contract from D.C. for "The Hooded Man," although they
have given the go ahead for the project and Mike and I have made real
progress on "The Wildwood Tarot," a greenwood tarot system based on,
guess what? Wildwood archetypes and the wheel of the year. It's well on
its way to being a "go" project with a major London book packager. Let's
hope they move faster than D.C.
As for interesting reading, "yours truly" is featured in Andrew Collins'
book The Seventh Sword published by Century Books, 20 Vauxhall Bridge
Rd., London S.W.1V 2SA. (No! I'm not on commission.) It's an interesting
"true life" search for seven real swords over a period of ten years by a
group of psychics in England. Life imitating art? Anyone not read
"Foucault's Pendulum" by Umberto Eco yet? It's a pretty good read as
well!
I hope to see lots of old friends and some new faces at "Weekend in
Sherwood" in August and we can "shoot the pagan breeze." Until then -
How do you know?
But, that every bird that cuts the airy way,
Is an immense world of delight, Closed by your senses five.
Blake.
Love and best wishes.
Tina Evans
Julianne: All I know about the Matthews' upcoming book on Robin Hood is
that the publisher is Gothic Image Books in Glastonbury. I don't have a
publication date. If you want to communicate with the Matthews write to
this address: BCM Hallowquest, London, WC1N, 3XX, UK. Send 8 IRC and
you will receive their newsletter. Send extra IRC if you want a reply.
(They can't guarantee a reply because of the heavy volume of mail they
receive.) The most recent newsletter announced an event being held on
December 11-13, at Hawkwood College. The event is called Robin Hood:
Green Man of the Wildwood. It will include a ritual masquing and archery
from Mark Ryan. (What is a ritual masquing?) If there is any further
mention of the Robin Hood book in upcoming newsletters I will let you
know.
I found the reference to female horned figures in Pagan Celtic Britain
by Anne Ross. There is a chapter devoted to the Horned God, and she
mentions some specimens of female horned figures found in Gaul.
Unfortunately, she never elaborates on this point.
Janet R.: The reason I connect Herne more with Odin/Woden than Cernunnos
is because in the context of RoS the people, such as Loxley, are Saxon
in origin. It seemed logical that the god of Loxley's ancestors could
have evolved into Herne.
I don't view Herne, as depicted in RoS, as a deity. I see him as a
shaman. He seems to undergo some of the characteristic experiences of a
shaman such as entering a trance state, encountering his god during that
trance, receiving information during the trance, etc. However, I know
very little on the subject of shamanism. Perhaps someone else could
elaborate on this subject? I may be way off base on this point.
Laura: I thought I was seeing things when I first opened the Hanson-
Roberts tarot deck and saw Nasir's face on the King of Pentacles card! I
am glad to know I wasn't imagining things. I went back and looked at the
cards you mentioned, and I can see the similarities to the RoS
characters. It is a very nice tarot deck.
Ariel
Comments on Second Issue of Cousins:
Laura Woodswalker Todd: Hello! Your letter to Issue #2 was very
interesting. Unfortunately, there are no "good" covens depicted in RoS;
however, there are quite a few good individual pagans (like Robin, Mad
Mab, and the old hermit who helps Robin in Swords of Wayland.) I'll
agree with Hilda that Kip probably used evil "sorcery" as a plot device
to get people hooked. I find characters like Belleme and Morgwyn, who
are so single-minded and ruthless in their quest for power, compelling
to watch. Why is everyone so down on Gulnar? Personally, I was scared
witless the first time I watched "Cromm Cruac." However, I found "Time
of the Wolf" a bit like an amusement park haunted house: a little creepy
at first, but then just ridiculous!
For Robert to show vulnerability is one thing, but I have read too many
stories that just denigrate his character, and those are the ones that
make me angry. I agree with you utterly that there must have been some
motivation behind Robert's eventually becoming an outlaw besides his
attraction to Marion. Perhaps Marion's being kidnapped by Clun was the
catalyst that forced him to ultimately make the decision to leave
Huntingdon. I think he must have had exposure to the Old Religion at
least through myths and storytelling. Otherwise, as you pointed out, he
might not have accepted Herne's guidance so readily.
I do have a couple of quibbles about the pieces of fanfic you cited in
your letter - just that I think they were taken a bit out of context.
Will's accusation of Marion in "The Hollow Hills" (Albion 4) only comes
after Marion refuses to help rescue Robert (who has been kidnapped and
enchanted by the Sidhe) because she fears being drawn back into the
forest. Will doesn't just call her a bitch out of the blue, he's worried
about Robert and frustrated by Marion's refusal to help.
I don't think Robert was accusing Marion of being a "god groupie" in The
Hooded Man. I think he was trying to find out if she really loved him
personally, or just the aspect of him that tied him to Loxley (i.e.,
being Herne's Son).
I think people like Marion, it's just that they don't like the way Time
of the Wolf ended. Without taking the behind-the-scenes circumstances
into consideration, it makes Marion look a little heartless. Her peace
is gained at the cost of Robert's misery.
Janet V.: Your view of the Goddess as Sherwood or even England herself
is more on target (pun intended!) than you realize. An interesting book
I read called "The Warriors of Arthur" (I can't remember the author's
name, will try to find it for a future issue) mentioned the belief in
the land as the Mother or divine feminine, and the king as her consort
and protector. There was a nice line to the effect of "...the king and
the land were tied by a bond so powerful that nothing could stand
against them."
Lynn: You raise a lot of valid points. Your views on Marion are so
interesting! I've had thoughts along those lines myself - perhaps she
"converted" to Paganism upon her marriage to Robin without ever really
adopting the beliefs herself. A lot of people today convert to the faith
of their loved one. I'm probably sticking my sword in and stirring
things up here (as Hilda would say), but I don't think Marion was a
priestess. I think she went to the forest simply because she loved Robin
and wanted to be with him. At the same time, however, she could also
help the poor and right some of the injustices she had probably observed
all her life (like Robert), but had no power to do anything about. On
the same note, I don't think Robin "chose" Marion because he saw the
Goddess in her. I think he saw a woman who was not only beautiful, but
courageous, compassionate, and intelligent. Maybe to us they serve as
archetypes, but they probably weren't to each other!
Janet R.: On your and Lynn's observations of the "Mary cult": there was
an interesting cover story on Mary in Time about last Christmas (1991).
I think the intense devotion to Mary serves as a badly needed outlet for
a female deity. Sadly, much of Mary's vitality has been drained away by
male theologians who paint her as the perfect submissive, obedient
woman. Interestingly, the three artistic depictions of Mary chosen for
the article showed her in the aspects of Maid, Mother, and Crone, and
she was wearing white, red, and black correspondingly!
I enjoyed all your historical commentary and wish I had the time to read
and really absorb all this information!
One problem with the third series, I think, is that Kip did not write
all the stories. So, perhaps there is a bit of a continuity problem
(like the writers not being 100% familiar with the Praed stories). The
same thing happened, to a much worse extent, with Dr. Who, where events
in one story very often flatly contradict events in a previous story.
Hilda - your comments are funny as heck, like Mary being "promoted" to
Queen of Heaven to get the "matristic hayseeds into the church." And
"rent-a-monsters?" Tell that one to Gulnar, the "Jimmy Swaggart of
Paganism!" For an utterly hysterical look at Mary Sues of all universes,
check out "The Most Awful Post Awful" by Rache in Apocryphal Albion 3.
Typo: The Black Mass I referred to in my letter was allegedly performed
by Louis XIV of France. There ain't no such number as VIX! Sorry!
Comments on Third Issue of Cousins:
Kitty: Hi! I think you might have misunderstood my article - I don't
feel Robin is "too magical," I just think he's portrayed in fanfic too
often as having magical abilities far beyond that of which he's capable
on TV. On the other extreme, there's Robert, who is often portrayed as
completely ignorant of the Old Religion and doesn't "understand" magic.
The story divisions may be logical, but that doesn't mean they should be
cast in stone. Skipping ahead a little, this brings me to your comments
to Laura W.: "These characters were created by Kip and should remain in
the bounds he created...Unless you keep the characters true to the show,
then you are creating your own characters and panning them off as RoS."
Well- said! While it's fun to explore aspects of the characters we don't
get to see on TV, I think there should be reasonable limits on how far
we go with our imaginations.
While I agree with your argument on originality, it irritates me to see
the same themes and ideas popping up over and over again (e.g., Robin as
sacred king, Marion as Maiden, Robert mopes over Marion, Guy turns good,
etc.), as I mentioned in my article.
Your comments on Herne's calling Robert are also well-put. The situation
with Marion in "Herne's Son" finally forces Robert to confront his true
desire to help the oppressed. Speaking of "Herne's Son," your thoughts
on Marion's initial reaction to being kidnapped by Clun make a lot of
sense. The poor woman probably hadn't even recovered from Robin's death,
now she has to confront a future as the "wife" of a barbarian with
nobody to come to her aid! Is it any wonder she went to pieces?
I enjoyed your pointing out that England at this time would have been a
mixture of different types of people. Correspondingly, wouldn't their
religious beliefs have mingled somewhat? I'm irritated when people
become particular about "traditional" craft beliefs - what's
traditional, anyway? It's like arguing over what the "right" form of
Christianity is. [Look, John! A can of worms! Wanna go fishing? -H]
On to your points about black magic. You say that "Only Gulnar appears
to be a fanatic about his god..." And Morgwyn ISN'T?? She's about as
fanatical as they come, but in a more cold, ruthless way.
Thanks for your references on the Sidhe - maybe some day I'll have time
to actually look at all these! Right now I'm afraid they'd just join the
pile of material accumulating on my floor!
Morgana: Thanks for the enlightening definition of "Earth Magic!"
Laura W.: I recently stumbled across a copy of Barbara Walker's
excellent Women's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets and was amazed. She
must have put so much work into that book! In addition to some
interesting Pagan references, she goes on at length about how Jesus
might never have actually existed, and how so much of his life story
might have been "borrowed" from other Gods and heroes. She also mentions
that much of the Bible was apparently written many years after Christ's
death, by men who never actually knew him firsthand! I'm not much of
religious scholar - has anybody read anything else along this line?
You refer to some of the earliest Robin Hood tales - I believe that
Robin Hood didn't start "giving to the poor" until either the
Elizabethan period or even later, perhaps with the publication of
Ivanhoe. But I'm not 100% sure here, so don't take my word for gospel -
does anybody know more about this than me? Love to get your input!
[Hilda - if Gerald Gardner swiped his "ancient rituals" from Doreen
Valiente, where did SHE get them? Just curious!]
No, Robin of Sherwood is not "politically correct" in the strictest
feminist sense. Although Marion is the only regular female member of the
RoS cast, there are a number of excellent female characters in the guest
cast, running the gamut from Mildred to Morgwyn. They're definitely not
all "damsels in distress!" Also, I think the show is to be commended for
showing both the positive and negative aspects of several faiths. There
are even some political allegories that can be drawn between the
12th/13th centuries and the 20th. ["Do you want to be slaves to the
Welsh?" Oy, there's a tired rerun! -H] You might come up a little empty-
handed if you go looking for Goddess symbolism, but the program is rich
in many other respects. [Is that why we feel compelled to rob it? -H]
As for Gulnar doing "something simpler" to avenge himself on Robert -
first, I don't think Gulnar is avenging anything. He just dislikes
Robert (does someone like Gulnar really need a reason to do anything
nasty?) After all, it was Gulnar who goaded Owen to his death in
"Herne's Son," and later uses this as a lame excuse for vengeance in
"Cromm Cruac." True, he could have gone for a more conventional method
of revenge, but Gulnar's scrawny build rather rules out direct combat,
and besides, that's not the type of revenge you can fill up 50 minutes
with.
As for other random magical occurrences: they're probably plot devices.
As I pointed out in my article, Marion seems genuinely surprised to
learn that Albion will not kill Herne's Son. The idea was probably
thought up for this story. Although it's hard to imagine Loxley not
being aware of the sword's power, it's equally hard to imagine Marion
being ignorant of this fact if Robin wasn't. The Round Table seems to be
some sort of link between Arthur and his knights (in Avalon, presumably)
and the "real" world. This is strictly guesswork, although it's an
interesting point you raise. Anything I've read about Arthur does not go
into great lengths about the power of his table! Does anybody better
versed in Arthurian lore than I am want to take a stab at this one?
A RoS Tarot deck! Neato! I've seen kits that you can use to design your
own deck, but it would require more artistic talent than I possess!
Another problem is that you'd run out of characters pretty quickly. Here
are some ideas I had: Alan and Mildred as the Two of Cups, Gisburne as
the Knight of Wands, Marion as the mourning woman in the Nine of Swords,
Loxley as the Knight of Swords, Margaret of Gisburne or Queen Hadwisa
as the Queen of Swords, the Sheriff or Hugo as the Four of Pentacles
[Yes!!! Hugo's got my vote! -H], Edward as the Seven of Pentacles.
Personally, I see Robert as the Fool, the eternal adventurer. I can see
Alison of Wickham as the Empress and King Richard as the Emperor.
Someone has actually done a Robin and Marion illustration of the Lovers
(I think it was in Legend 3). We could put the Earl of Huntingdon in the
Chariot, and perhaps use Isadora in Strength. [The lion is a symbol of
England, yes? -H] Herne is definitely the Hermit card. I'd love to do
Gulnar as the Devil, with Marion and Robert chained to the block. It
would be cute to put Matthew on the back of the horse in the Sun. Gee,
this is fun! Anybody have other ideas on this?
In nearly every story where Robin and Robert meet, it's always Robin who
ends up in the mentor role, while Robert is the one getting all the
advice. This is another trend in fanfic that I find personally
irritating. Robin made a fair number of mistakes as the Hooded Man - why
does he so often become this font of knowledge in fan stories? I like
Robin, but I dislike seeing his character made into a paragon of wisdom
at Robert's expense.
Todd: Hello! Nice to hear from you! It's good to see a representative of
yet another religious background. Your discussion of Mormonism was
fascinating! I had no idea that Mormons had their "mystics," too.
The incident of the noblewoman's garter is nicely described by Margaret
Murray. Apparently, when Edward III was dancing with either the Fair
Maid of Kent or the Countess of Salisbury, she dropped her garter,
whereupon the King gallantly picked it up and said "Honi soit qui mal y
pense" - "Shame to him who thinks ill of it," and tied the garter around
his own leg. According to Doreen Valiente, the King founded the Order of
the Garter - 26 knights, including the King and his son, the Black
Prince - two covens! The King's cloak was decorated with the figures of
168 garters, which added to the one on his leg, made 169 or 13 times 13
garters! Valiente suggests that by acting as he did, Edward not only
defended the woman's honor, he defended the Old Religion as well.
I was under the impression that "Wiccan" and "Pagan" were the same
thing. Perhaps I shouldn't use the words interchangeably. Hilda? Help!
Phil K.: You mention that Robin "hand picked" people who could fight
with him. I have to disagree here - from the action in "The Sorcerer,"
I'd say that the outlaws pretty much fell together by accident or fate.
Robin certainly did not choose them by design.
Julianne: Speaking of garters, I find it hard to believe that the red
rag on Robin's pants is there strictly to hold the stuffing in. What
about the camera angle? It's too suspicious for my devious mind!
I'm going to have to disagree with you again on paganism in Robin's
time. The earliest human religious impulse may have been toward a
mother-figure, but as for the medieval Anglo- Saxon/Norman England, I
can't quite see it as matrifocal, or even balanced (not in the way we
would think of "balance.") Even if the peasants acknowledged a female
Deity or Deities, I'd be more inclined to believe their belief system
leaned toward the patriarchal.
Janet R.: I would love to loan you a copy of Margaret Murray's God of
the Witches, but it was a library copy. Have you checked with any
college/university libraries in your area, or perhaps even contacted a
history or anthropology professor? Are there occult bookshops around
where you live? There are also bookstores (particularly around colleges)
that will special order books for people.
You describe William Rufus' death exactly as Murray does. She also
points to the unusual circumstances surrounding the deaths of Thomas a
Becket and Joan of Arc, as well as pointing to "Robin Hood" as perhaps
the title of a witch or shaman. Interesting!
Hilda: You may find Cunningham too vague, but he's good for beginners,
and his book on solitary practice is just about the only book I've seen
on Wicca that doesn't assume the reader is working with a group.
Your closing thoughts on Marion are as perceptive as ever. While it's
true she does have to swing a lot of the feminine archetypical stuff on
her own, don't forget the contributions made by the wonderful guest
characters (as I mentioned above) who take the burden of perfection off
Marion's shoulders. In this light, perhaps we shouldn't come down so
harshly on original female characters in fanfic. It's hard to come up
with a good female character when you're afraid she's only going to be
stuck with the Mary Sue label!
Well, this is starting to be epic-length, so I'll sign off now!
Blessed be.
Carol Burrell Hello, everyone, and thank you, Hilda, for slipping
Cousins into my bag. I zipped through the issues on the train from
Massachusetts to New York, and now that the topics have circulated and
percolated in my head, I thought I'd jot down a few thoughts.
On Owen and his thoroughly confused band: I think his men are wearing
Roman soldiers' accoutrements, hanging from their beltsQthose flaps or
strips with disks or coins on them. At least, they look exactly like
part of a Roman uniform. Does anyone know if they have another
significance? This may show yet another influence on the screwball
behaviour going on at Clun.
As a defender/apologist for the Mediterranean world, I must say I get
the impression folks concur the main thing those nasty Romans spread was
Christianity. Non-Judaeo- Christian religions persisted throughout the
Empire right up to its collapseQthe old religions, Mithraism, the Isis
cult, etc.Qand there are a lot of parallels in the practise of these
religions with the Celtic faiths. And which is how a sixth century
Christian emperor could end up marrying a thoroughly pagan woman.
Which brings me to spouting off trivia, since someone brought the topic
up, and hopefully folks will find this interesting. I think it's nice to
know that the Mary cult wasn't just a bunch of men trying to convert
"hayseeds," or someone longing for the Mother goddess (although that
could be there subconsciously)Qbut that the cult also got an early boost
from a feisty fourteen-year-old girl trying to participate in the church
and break up the hierarchy. Aelia Pulcheria, sister of the boy emperor
Theodosius, wanted control over both the empire and herself, and was a
prime impetus for the acceptance of the elevation of the Mother. And,
while she was at it, she raised the status of virgin and saved herself
from marriage to any power seeker. Pulcheria initiated her little
sisters into this cult, brought women in to worship alongside men
(gasp!) and did a good job of ruling in her baby brother's stead. Then,
her brother married a pagan woman. So what do we make of this? The
Mother goddess will out? Purely politics? And what in the world does it
have to do with RoS? Beats me. Keep fanning the fires, and I'm looking
forward to the next issue.
Laura Woodswalker Todd Dear Cousins, Greetings! Love you all and miss
you and I have only the slightest hopes of going to Weekend in Sherwood
(unless any of you Pennsylvania fans are into sharing a very long
drive.) Anyway, Hilda published my suggestion about a "Favorite RoS
quote" survey. My absolute favorite is from Time of the Wolf: "What do
you think you're wearing, Gisburne, you look absurd!"
Janet asks why Marion doesn't get a fair shake in the fanfic. To my
mind, the emphasis in RoS is definitely on the Guys. Let's face it,
Jason and Michael upstage anyone else who happens to be on the screen.
Even the writer's mental screen. If the two Robins had been more
ordinary, there probably would be more attention given to this wonderful
tough woman who shoots a longbow, lives in the forest, and generally
does/is everything we wish we could be. Perhaps there's an element of
jealousy here! Perhaps she is too perfect to write about! I do tell
myself that when I'm tired of writing about Our Guys, I should
definitely write some stuff about Marion.
Then again...there are times when she comes across an ice princess. Such
as at the end of Herne's Son when she asks Robert "do you think they'll
accept you as their leader?" in a rather cool tone and then rides off
without another word. When the poor guy has just risked his life to save
her!
But Marion was okay with me until the very end when she dumped Robert. I
though that was incredibly foolish and out of character. (If they wanted
to write her out of the series, why not just say she had to stay in
Halstead for health reasons?) By the way, what do you folks think -
would Marion have stayed at Halstead? I personally don't think she'd
have lasted longer than a week. Corollary question: was she really in
love with Robert? Some of the fan writers seem to think not. But since
we saw her onscreen looking ecstatically happy and promising to marry
him, I believe her feelings were genuine. We can speculate to some
extent, but to me, if we see it onscreen, it is canon.
Which leads me to the subject of the RoS canon in TV and fanfic. I think
the show left an awful lot of blank spaces to fill. In my last letter I
wondered why TV shows in general rarely delved into character and were
very shallow on continuity, etc. A friend of mine answered this by
telling me that many different writers do the episodes, so each writer
must leave the characters pretty much as he found them. That explains a
lot!
To me the show is merely the tip of the iceberg. It only gives the
barest of clues; it's the fans who have expanded on them and created a
lot of the things that are accepted as "canon." For example, the
labeling of Loxley as "magical" and Robert as "rational." I've never
seen Loxley actually do magic on the show; most of it is things that
happen to him or are given to him by Herne. Of his psychic ability,
there is merely the impression given by his dark piercing eyes and the
way he stops every now and then with that intense listening expression.
As for Robert, why is he "rational?" Because of his clear, precise
diction and the assumption that he has had more formal education? (His
behavior in Herne's Son is anything but rational!)
There are lots of other conclusions we could draw from the bare bones
the show gives us. For instance - I think Robert's strongest
characteristic must be not rationality but empathy in relating to
people. How else could he have won over Loxley's band and the local
peasants, given their antipathy to the nobility and suspicion of anyone
who'd claim Loxley's place? As for Loxley, is he so "perfect," or might
he have a bit of a "bad ass attitude" and want revenge, considering that
he's seen his family massacred?
Sorry if I'm getting off the subject. Since I've run out of my meager
store of Pagan Lore, I have to fall back on another favorite subject,
character analysis. Hope you don't mind!
Julianne - Is Michael really so skinny that he needs to stuff his
pants?? [...censorship is bad, censorship is bad, censorship is BAD...
-H] Maybe that's why he never did any (semi-) nude scenes. [AAAARGH! You
stink! What a stupid thing to say! You better be glad I even printed
that, because it's a serious compromise of my editorial standards!
Grunt! Gasp! Urrgh! ALE!!!]
[The editorial staff of Cousins wishes to blame the preceding outburst
on the approach of Spring. We now return you to your regularly scheduled
letter.]
As to writing and art being Magical Practice: It's true - writing and
drawing are ways of "invoking" characters and making them come alive.
Yes, I've written several stories about what makes Robert tick...but
it'll take a long time for them to all appear in the zines.
I love your use of RoS characters for the 4 quarters. I never thought
of that! I was thinking more along the lines of using them for Tarot
cards. Tuck as the Hermit, Herne as High Priest (or is that the other
way round?) Much as the Fool, Belleme as the Devil. Marion as Empress,
or would Isadora fit better for that? Wheel of Fortune = Rhiannon's
Wheel? [Brilliant! -H] As to invoking the RoS characters...yes, I do
invoke them, consciously or not, when their particular type of power is
needed. I think I invoke Robin every time I do archery! I find I have
also used Robert as an example/source of strength when dealing with co-
workers. Because, as I said, his skill is in diplomacy and dealing with
people. Now if I ever realize my dream of being an Eco- defender and
joining Earth First! Will Scarlet will probably be the archetype I want
in my corner.
As to this "sacrificial King" stuff: Wonder why all these sacrificial
kings had to die in such agonizing ways (castration, dismemberment,
crucifixion.) OUCH! Originally the idea may have sprung from hunting
magic, but all this torture doesn't have much to do with hunting. Maybe
humans were just sadists from Day One? Does this have anything to do
with the way we writers do nasty things to our Guys? (I'm one of the
guiltiest parties, I'll admit.) Notice that nobody every tortures the
baddies?
Herne Protect!
Kathy Allard
Greetings, fellow Cousins! I'm so thrilled with this project and Hilda's
dedication to making it happen. I'm an old RoS fan, having been hooked
since the original Showtime run in '84, but I've fallen far behind on
fanfic reading, and I'm a novice pagan - so Cousins is a learning
experience for me on many levels.
First off, to Mike and anyone else who's been attracted here because of
the Wiccan slant but hasn't seen RoS yet - I for one am willing and able
to copy the series, so feel free to contact me.
I'm glad to see so much emphasis in these pages on magick, folklore,
traditions, etc. Herne's Stepchildren is the place for general RoS
discussion, and I hope Cousins will stay focused on our particular
interests. I also like the idea of this newsletter as a clearinghouse
for information, where people can ask questions and others recommend
helpful reading. Thanks to all who've recommended some great books!
I'm curious about what pagan magazines people here read. Hilda mentioned
Moonrise. I've found Green Egg to be a good source of information on
everything from current politics to Celtic history and practical crafts
(um, of the "arts +" variety). Their proofreaders should be roasted on a
spit, though (sorry, bit of personal prejudice there).
Is John Matthews touring America? In my area he's doing a weekend on
"The Celtic Shaman" in March, and I'm going to be in Florida. Sob! If
anyone sees him I'd love to hear about it.
There have been several questions and comments about pagan rituals
surviving into modern times. Another good source of information on this
is Frazer's The Golden Bough, an awesome piece of research on, as he
calls it, magic and religion. Lord of the Trees fans will want to read
"The Worship of Trees" and "Relics of Tree-Worship in Modern Europe."
I found the entire long section on death and revival of vegetation
fascinating, from his retelling the myths of the gods/goddesses of
vegetation to the modern analogies among farmers in Europe. Frazer was
researching this book around the turn of the century, so rituals
surrounding crops may be drastically changed now that machinery does so
much of the work. Between the ancient and modern examples, we can get a
pretty good idea of what went on in Robin Hood's time.
The almost endless examples Frazer gives of magical workings and customs
all over the world and throughout prehistory and history reinforce for
me the feeling that, on many levels, all the traditions truly are one.
If only the people who've gone to war over god could see it that way!
Janet R.: I'm wondering what your source material is for the modern
rituals you described in issue #2. I'd like to read more about what goes
on today.
Woodswalker: I've read some of the original Robin Hood ballads and found
them to be fairly boring - as you said, they were mainly adventure tales
aimed at the masses and detailing fights and contests. They struck me as
almost barbaric, and Robin not an admirable figure at all.
The tradition transformed with the times - I know Marion was a medieval
addition, considering that period's obsession with romantic love. I'm
sure there are Cousins more knowledgeable on the evolution of the
tradition than I, so to get to the point - considering how little the
original source material gives us, how do we know if Robin was a pagan?
Perhaps we are making an assumption that he would be because he lived in
Sherwood Forest at that time in history. I personally think that Richard
Carpenter's interpretation of Robin has more to do with the spirit of
our times, when old myths and legends are being reinterpreted in light
of the pagan side of the story ( la Mists of Avalon).
Maybe I'm taking your question of "was Robin a Wiccan" too literally,
but it seems similar to trying to identify an historical person with
Robin Hood: we'll never know. Like all the great legends, Robin Hood has
come alive for people over the centuries because he's open to so many
interpretations. This one seems right to us, so let's go with it.
Phil: I love your view of RoS and, even more, your world view. I've
gotten strongly anti- Christian vibes from some pagan material I've
read, and it makes me uncomfortable - not to mention how so many
Christians feel about Wiccans, namely that we're to be equated with
Satanists, as Todd was taught. You're so right about living in
productive harmony - let's extend that to include the entire universe.
Looking forward to reading and learning more from all of you.
Blessed Be!
Tara O'Shea (re: Issue 2)
Amber: I am curious as to the role of Marion as far as the triad is
concerned. I say this because I have never seen it myself. I saw her
first as a human being, and never even thought of superimposing one of
Her Faces over her. Not until I started reading all the RoS fanfic, and
saw how common this was. And I began to think about it, and still can't
really see Mari as an aspect of the Goddess.
I too am a generic pagan, like Laura, and express some doubts concerning
the rituals. However, if they help some people express their faith, and
they need them, then I have no problem with this. Again, I never read as
much into the Celtic aspect of Robin of Sherwood until I started reading
all the fanfic. I began writing after seeing three of the episodes on
tape, borrowed the novelizations, and didn't purchase a fanzine until
almost a year later. Then I got the courage up and started submitting,
and so far most of what I read has been tribbers copies of zines I have
writing or art in, or zines I've ordered through the mail or picked up
at cons. I don't know a great deal about all the symbolism, though now
I'm building up a healthy collection of books, and look up everything.
One of the things I've always been confused about is the notion of Gods.
For example, I have seen Ceridwen named the mother, yet all I know of
her regards Gwion Bach and his metamorphosis into Taliesin. Ditto
Arianrhod, who is called Earth Goddess by Gulnar in The Hooded Man, yet
all I seem to remember is that she was raped by Math, and cursed her son
by laying three geise on him. As for the Tuatha De Danann, who are
considered the Irish pantheon, they were not exactly gods per se. They
were not human, true, but they were the Children of Nemed, descended
from the Greeks, as were the Fir Bolg, and were the fourth of five races
to conquer Ireland. They did not create man, or the world, or do any
particular godlike things as I can recall. I may be wrong. So far I
have read two of Jim Fitzpatrick's retellings, skimmed Lady Gregory's
Gods and Fighting Men (it had a J. Fitzpatrick cover, as did Fairy Faith
in Celtic Countries, and so I snatched them both up. They have been very
helpful) and I have about ten or fifteen other books lying about my
writing desk. The most useful I have found is the Dictionary of Irish
Mythology by Peter Bransford Ellis, which doesn't cover the Welsh or
Arthurian, but only the Irish, which it covers very well.
I never saw Robin of Loxley as perfect. I am constantly going back and
re-watching episodes because I will read a story and remember something
different, or will have missed something the first time, and this is
very helpful in getting me back on track. I watched The King's Fool and
The Children of Israel, and these seem to illustrate that Loxley is far
from perfect. He really lit into Will in that one, and while Scarlet
deserved it, they both overreacted. And while I did dislike Robert for a
while, it was mostly a reaction to Loxley, as they were so very
different. But different doesn't mean better or worse, and I have grown
very fond of Robert in the last year, mainly because I've written more
about him, and feel closer right now.
And I do try to be good to Marion. In fact, three of the first six
stories I wrote were from her point of view, on or near about the major
changes in her life. The first one, Cold Stone Walls, took place shortly
after her father died, the second (Home) detailed her decision to go
back to Leaford after Robin's death, and the last one (A Night at the
Inn) in the time between Herne's Son and The Power of Albion, because I
was curious to see what she might think about her position in her
father's world, and with the outlaws. I am very curious about Marion's
point of view, and try to be completely fair. And as for why she left
Robert, since I know it was because Judi didn't want to do a lot of work
in the 4th series, that explains Mari's motivation. No matter what the
writers said, she never really had a choice, and so whatever people
hypothesize might well be perfectly correct. Had the actors never been
part of the storymaking process, then she most likely would have stayed
on the hill and died with her husband. For that matter, Loxley would
never have been martyred.
By the way, from what I know of Cernunnos, he was the Latin name for any
horned figure, and in Irish much he was Carnun, the horned god who held
the torc of leadership in one hand, and either crushed the serpent Cromm
Cruach in the other hand (this is apparently in The Book of the Taking
of Ireland, or at least Jim Fitzpatrick's retelling in The Silver Hand)
or holding his sigil, the horned serpent. The serpent symbolizes evil in
Christian myth, and Marion Zimmer Bradley said that the serpent's egg
was the symbol of the Druids, and the story of St. Patrick driving the
snakes from the island is a metaphor for driving out the Old Faith, for
we know there were no snakes in Ireland by that time.
Ariel: I know about Samhain, Imbolg, Beltaine, and Lughnasad, but I had
always wondered about Lammas and Mabon, as they are mentioned so often.
I knew about the summer and winter solstice, but didn't know the names
proper. My birthday is Mabon, although I was three months premature, and
was due on or about the winter solstice. Weird. Perhaps not. I don't
know. Thank you for pointing this out. Also, the only times I ever saw
Robin using magic were to call on Herne when Mari was shot, and when he
fairy-led Guy in Lord of the Trees. That, and resisting Belleme's
glamour. That reminds me, I usually don't equate the Sight with Magic,
because I've always thought of magic as being learned or studied,
whereas the Sight is something you are born into. However, precognition
and telepathy sound a great deal like magic, so this gets a bit
confusing. I don't know. I'm going to shut up now about that sort of
thing. It gets too complicated.
As for the six foot tall fay, this would come from the Danaans I think,
as the Welsh didn't really get that tall, and I have no idea bout
Manannan Mac Lir, because he was old when the Fir Bolg arrived. I think
he's really the only one I've ever known who has always been referred to
as a god.
Janet R.: Don't you ever call your brain little. It boggles the mind,
mine at least, every time I read one of your letters. So far, you have
kept me sane (or some close approximation, as I have never been known to
claim sanity. I collect comic books) here in the Peninsula. I love you.
I just had to mention that. One of these days, we really have to meet
one another. Or talk on the phone. I just read your bit on Carnun (I am
writing this letter as I read, so you see, you beat me to the punch
already, as I have already written a whole paragraph on Carnun, and now
am contemplating going back and deleting it.) I never knew Rhiannon
translated as the same as Morrighan. She's my favourite Danaan. I never
liked Cuchulainn either.
And you know what I think about Robert joining the outlaws. I sent you
the story. I firmly believe that Marion was the catalyst that sent him
back to Sherwood. The reason was that he needed to sever ties with his
family and their way of life, sort of like the straw that broke the
camel's back. And he did love her. First love too, and that had to have
been hard. After all, Mari had already loved and lost, but the poor
laddie had never had his heart broken before. At least now they're on
equal ground, though I don't believe he was suicidal. Deeply depressed
for a while, after all this was his first love, but I can't see him
killing himself. Marion didn't; however, what took place during the
series and what we all suppose happened after the series are two
different things, mainly because we didn't have the actors to keep in
mind.
As for the Marchers, from what I know they weren't Welsh or English
exactly. At least, they claimed whichever side they wished when it
appealed to them, or whichever set of laws favoured them most. I suppose
Clun could have been a mix of a lot of things. As for the names, don't
look at me. My poor friend Megan was born Siobhan, but no one could say
or spell it, and so she changed it. Who knows what Grendel's mother was
thinking.
One last thing: I thought those rags tied round Robin's legs were to
hide the fact that his thighs were padded for the series. I may be
wrong. I often am, and I can't quite remember where I heard this.
Judi Kincaid
Hello Cousins! What a great idea this letterzine is! Hilda, thanks again
for the first three issues so promptly, I really enjoyed them! Janet and
Lynn, thanks also!
Like Janet, I was raised as a Methodist, but have drifted away from
'organised' religion for several years now. It is very encouraging to
discover that there are other people with similar views and interests.
RoS struck a definite chord within me and I began to find my interest in
medievalism taking rapidly different paths to new areas of study. I
didn't realize what I felt and believed in had a name till then! Through
my solitary studies, RoS, and friends within the fandom, I have gained
insight and had my beliefs bolstered, not to mention the feeling of
'coming home.'
Being fairly new to the fandom (although I was hooked on RoS in the
first five minutes of Herne's Son when it first aired), as well as
living overseas, I am not up on all of the fanfic and zines (yet!) So,
thanks for the definition of a Mary Sue! However, I do have some
thoughts to share...
Issue 1: Ariel - What a great article! I also agree with your reasons
for Marion staying at Halstead. I feel she never did nor would
completely let Robin's memory go - she even admitted at the Ring of the
Nine Maidens, 'It was never meant to be.'
As for the debate on Robert and his apparent lack of magical talent...
It has already been acknowledged how various cast changes, such as Praed
leaving and Judi only wanting to be in a few episodes, have called for
some brilliant screenwriting maneuvers and plot changes. In the third
series, the script writing and directing was very eclectic. Kip
Carpenter admits he wasn't as closely involved in the third series as he
was in the previous two. Is it possible that Robert isn't 'up to par'
magically since his character was developed by several writers? A
diversity of script writers may also help to explain why Robert's real
reason for returning to Sherwood has been vague at best and largely left
for fanfic fodder. I felt that there was a definite change in the feel
of the series. Like Janet R. wrote, Herne and the magic seemed more
distant.
Now I realise that this is a very mundane explanation, but I thought I'd
toss it out anyway.
Issue 3: Laura - My Tarot set is the Robin Wood deck. It spoke very
loudly to me when I first saw it! Very medieval in character, with
glowing, vibrant colours. The imagery isn't overly graphic as with some
decks. Personally, I find some of the cards close to RoS characters and
spirit, but it still falls short. Maybe we should all get together at a
con and come up with our own design??
Hilda - Oh goody, a chance to digress into another favourite topic
(besides RoS): Where are Mu and Lemuria? Of course they have nothing to
do with RoS, but since you asked...
Mu-Lemuria were legendary landmasses far older than the fabled and
mystical Atlantis. Your buddy Murry Hope feels they may have been joined
by a land bridge at one time, hence the two names together.
Like Atlantis, they incurred the wrath of their gods for the human folly
that had brought them to the brink of destruction. (Does this sound
hauntingly familiar?) Enraged, the gods destroyed the civilisation of
Mu- Lemuria in a terrifying and cataclysmic event which resulted in this
land sinking beneath the sea. Hope pinpoints this geological nightmare
at around 800,000 years ago. Due to no eyewitnesses and sloppy record
keeping this remains a rough figure.
Supposedly, during the last days of Mu- Lemuria the creme de la creme of
the priesthood of this advanced society were charged to go forth and
ensure that the great knowledge of their land was not lost forever. The
knowledge was indeed passed on to the heirs of Lemuria - Atlantis.
Obviously the Atlanteans weren't too impressed with this knowledge
because they managed to make the same mistakes all over again. Legends
tell of the destruction of Atlantis - a pyrotechnic display of Mother
Earth's extreme displeasure with her children such as the world had
never seen. (Current inhabitants take note.) In a day and a night
Atlantis disappeared beneath the waves. Some say the Knowledge of the
Great Temple at Atlantis was brought forth to the shores of ancient
Britain by the selected priestesses and priests as Atlantis was consumed
in fire.
Hope and others believe all three lands lay submerged in the vast
Atlantic Ocean. Strange that no- one can find them, of course it is
pretty deep. Actually the search has been conducted from Antarctica to
the Aegean Sea. Despite Hope's one- track mind of the advanced culture
of Lemuria some 800,000 years ago, no real evidence points to their
existence. All legends have a grain of truth to them, and strong
archaeological and geologic evidence lead to the remnants of a tiny
island in the Aegean Sea, Thera, as the basis of the Atlantean legend.
Thera was a large island with a thriving community of Minoan
civilisation when it was torn apart by a volcanic eruption in approx.
1560 BCE.
Oops, that got a little more involved than I planned. My apology!!
I have a question hopefully someone can answer. What is the origin and
significance (if any) of the necklet Marion wears in the first two
series? It disappeared in the third. Did it have something to do with
Loxley? Any ideas where it came from? and where it went?
Herne protect.
Hilda
Janet V. - I once heard an interesting song that portrayed the Oak and
Holly Kings as not combatants but lovers! (Written and sung by
Christopher from New York, but I don't know his last name.) Alas, that
sort of plowshare would send many folks scurrying back to the sword in
the blink of an eye. I thought it was sweet, and far better suited to
the natural progression of the seasons that you describe; at least in a
fleeting, Ladyhawke-ish way. It just goes to show how real and alive
these archetypes still are for us today, that someone would draw them so
naturally into living culture in a way that would seem blasphemous with
a more hidebound being!
Thanks for the tip on Mu - I thought it was some obscure hamlet in
Vermont. "Excuse me, Ma'am, where am I..."
Chris - I agree completely that the Merries' friendship and cooperation
is not only the true magic of the series, it's a constant miracle of RoS
fandom as well. I've never met another group of people so tolerant,
intellectually curious, and willing to allow one another our
differences - and this includes my religious community! But discretion
is a big part of mutual respect, and until I'm convinced that there's
nobody in the fandom who considers it their duty to God and humanity to
get "all offended and hyper," I'll want to provide a place for
discussions like this, where they won't bother people who aren't
interested. One technical point: since Pagans and Witches consider every
human a manifestation of the Divine, insulting an individual's personal
will by trying to "convert" them is considered foolish at best and
extremely unethical at worst. Of course, every rule has its $#@*&
exceptions. But those particular exceptions are probably currently being
energetically pursued by representatives of the Unification Church...
"Cowan" simply means "somebody who isn't a Pagan," with the same lack of
value judgment as one might indicate somebody who isn't a cab driver,
coffee drinker, or resident of Nevada. It's just shorthand, like
"commuter" (someone who doesn't live in the same town as the one in
which they work) or "teetotaler" (someone who doesn't drink alcohol). In
fact, a very popular recent book on Witchcraft was written by Laurie
Cabot and Tom Cowan! If the word had any nasty connotations, I should
think that his family would have changed it generations ago. I've never
heard it used as an insult.
One sort of magical plot that I'd like to see more often involves the
Merries as ordinary humans doing magical things that ordinary humans can
do, with their only advantages the fact that their culture
has only
partially brainwashed the people out of recognizing their own abilities
and their own rejection of that brainwashing. Hmm...That makes Will
Scarlet a prime suspect, doesn't it? "No Norman's tellin' me I can't put
out no fire!"
If one believes that there ever were Sacrificial Kings, it's hard to
think of such a practice serving a "purpose" per se, except for the
reuniting of the God's fleshly representative with the Eternal Goddess.
Any secondary purposes (stronger crops/livestock, the return of
sovereignty to the indigenous people) would have been equally remote in
RoS, if it were indeed Kip's intention to tap into this particular myth
- moreso, in fact, since he certainly wouldn't want anyone thinking that
it might be a good idea!
Mark - Glad you're enjoying our blatant self- indulgence! We'd love to
know the name and address of the (prospective) publisher of the
Wildwood Tarot. You probably know what a rush it is to "be the first kid
on your block..." Besides, it'll be fun to bombard them with inquiries.
Tina and Judi - Thanks for letting me know that Murry Hope is a woman!
Any Cousin planning on attending the event at Hawkwood College in
December, bring a pen and paper! Anything you can get permission to tell
us would be music to our hungry ears.
Is Loxley Celt or Saxon? I always sort of figured him for a Celt, but
for no clear reason. Perhaps because I "look and feel" like a Saxon, and
Loxley is my physical opposite. He does seem to fit the basic Celtic
body and facial type. But I feel much closer to Herne than to
Odin/Woden - perhaps I'm using Loxley as an interpreter! Or even a
(gasp) Harry Stu...
My perception of Herne in RoS was of a god who spoke through the old
man, and of the man himself as someone who chose not to reveal his own
name. Perhaps that name no longer had meaning for him since he had
chosen (and been chosen) to speak for Herne, the spirit or god. I do
view the old man as a shaman. I think we basically agree, except in
terms of exactly who is named "Herne."
Ariel - Gulnar gave me the creeps, too. It might conceivably have been
possible to exploit Belleme's paranoia or to insult Morgwyn enough to
make her act anry and careless, but Gulnar is so insane that you
couldn't outmaneuver him. There's no guessing what might tempt,
frighten, or distract him.
Why might Robert be willing to listen to an Elder God? Well, among other
things, he's a Scot, a member of a notoriously stubborn and rebellious
breed. He might well have been raised to mistrust the Official version
of anything!
I thought that Marion was out of character at the end of Time of the
Wolf, but she wasn't acting so much heartless as utterly neurotic, and
displaying serious denial. Bereaved people can go into shock and
withdraw emotionally, but physical withdrawal behind stone walls and
fabrication of an empty hope for "peace" is a more complex strategy
than most folk could put together under that kind of stress. But then,
Marion is an unusually clever woman, and perhaps a convent would have
been the only physically safe place to live out the debilitating and
judgment-warping phases of a world-class mourn.
Yes! I agree that Marion wasn't consciously adopting the role of
Priestess. But as Julianne mentioned in Issue 3, the common people's
religion was a natural thing, like fetching water and slaughtering
chickens, and Marion could have been a Priestess without worrying about
her "station" too much. Her love and strength and unassuming, heart-born
wisdom could be seen as a lovely expression of the spirit of England.
That's one big advantage that the brand of Paganism portrayed in RoS has
over Neopaganism - a disregard or even blatant distrust for rank and
title! We try, Mother knows we try, but nobody is without a cultural
context... (I originally "mistyped" that last word as "contest." Let
your fingers do the talking!)
You know what I think? An archetype who knows they're an archetype only
works for some kinds of archetypes. Archetypes like Much, who if you
called them "archetypes" would say "What?" or "Nah!" or "Do you really
think so?" are powerful nonetheless, perhaps partially because they
don't know it. But Herne would be utterly useless if he didn't know that
he was here to be a mover of events. Between those two poles, I
personally like to give myself lots of leeway.
I read The Most Awful Post Awful three times, laughing myself blue in
the face all the way! Mother preserve us, but that woman's a genius! But
lest Rache's comedy be appreciated at the expense of her other work, I
want to let you all know that I liked Loss even more. (My files are a
disaster - where was that published?)
My own view of Barbara Walker's explanation of Sacred King Jesus of
Nazareth is: does Gwyn ap Nudd mind that some of his stories smack of
Norse tales of Odin? Does any Celtic deity worry about coming off like
an embellished and adapted version of a proto-Hindi archetype?
Christianity certainly isn't unique in its culturally composite lead
character.
I have no idea of where Doreen Valiente got her rituals and other Craft
material. As I hear it (fifth-hand at least, and foggily recollected)
she referred to the Witch's #1 source - her heart - and never
represented her source as being anything else, but this is so remote as
to be legend. Would that I had the opportunity to ask her! She's a wise
and clever woman, with a solid sense of perspective and a lovely sense
of humor. For a fascinating interview with her, send $4.00 to FireHeart,
P.O. Box 365, Medford, MA 02155. I think it was Issue 5 of FireHeart,
but just ask for the issue with the Doreen Valiente interview. FireHeart
is slick, slick enough be termed ostentatious, but this interview alone
is worth the price of the issue. Trust me.
I found the random magical occurrences in RoS to be important to more
than plot construction. They helped to give the show its tone of
unpredictability. I've never seen another show before or since that
could so successfully promise "lots of surprises" without giving any of
them away! For modern people who can't really get a handle on what a
tenuous thing life was in medieval times, the constant possibility of
magical intervention is useful in reconstructing the knife-edge feeling
of 12th and 13th century life.
Fantastic Tarot correspondences! Robert often reminds me of the Two of
Wands. He can do enormous amounts of good once he makes up his mind
about the context in which he wants to do it. He's frustrated that
allegiance to one stronghold precludes working through another, but he
has the integrity and determination to accept the choice and make the
decision on his own terms. (Although I must admit, in Herne's Son he
seemed more like the Two of Pentacles! Poor guy, always getting split
like that...) Don't throw things, but I'd like to do Herne as the Devil
- frustrated that Robin is "too big for his boots," Robert refuses his
destiny, Marion is crippled by sorrow, and the people don't take their
own part; but determined that they must break their own chains. You
could use Gulnar as the Five of Swords, dividing and conquering and then
making off with the spoils. Belleme could be the Ten of Wands, trying to
have it all by denying his human limits and ending up in an eternal
feedback loop. To me, Loxley isn't the Ten of Swords as so many people
have suggested, but the Nine of Wands, having played his part with honor
and now able to act from a broader viewpoint. Yeeow! I could go on all
day! Anybody want to do a RoS Tarot Art Brainstorming panel at Weekend
in Sherwood? I'd offer to help, but about all I could offer by way of
art would be the Thumbprint, the Scribble, and the Indeterminate Stick
Figure.
I would guess that Robin ends up giving Robert advice in the fanfic
simply because, chronologically, he's been there before. Besides, he's
dead. To paraphrase Zaphod Beeblebrox IV, "It gives one a wonderful
sense of perspective."
My own idea of the difference between Witches and Pagans is in the top
right corner of Issue 3, Page 11.
Carol - What does Aelia Pulcheria have to do with RoS? Well, she was
certainly concerned with balance, and would have gotten along well with
Marion! Perhaps our writer-Cousins can make use of her ideals in
describing a hitherto undocumented order of nuns, or conjure a
descendant of hers... Any plot idea is welcome! And I think there are
plenty of Goddess-worshipping Cousins who will welcome both this tidbit
and your general expertise in things Mediterranean. Me, for instance.
Woodswalker - I think Marion would stay in Halstead exactly as long as
it took for her to recover her faculties and face her fears - maybe more
than a week, but certainly not forever! True, Marion was too young and
inexperienced to survive the death of two husbands - but she was too
young and inexperienced to do any of the things she did! This is legend,
and the rules are different here. And, in my not-so-humble opinion, YES!
She definitely loved Robert.
I never really thought of Loxley as wanting revenge. He seemed to enjoy
humiliating the nobility, but he mostly wanted them out of his forest
and away from his people. He'd never hurt anyone except by way of
stopping them from harming someone innocent, and did his best to deal a
clean death when he killed. Instead of wanting a Scarlet vengeance that
could never truly satisfy, he wanted - and got - the solid and enduring
vengeance of knowing that no matter what they did, they could not make
him become one of them. (Who else here liked Orwell's 1984? Vonnegut's
Mother Night?)
Yo, Laura - this is a RoS newsletter, ya know! I'm as voracious a reader
as the next person, and if I can run a plot mill with your help, I'm
Much obliged! Analyze those characters!
I think that in a culture like ours, there will always be people who
want to read stories about torture. How they work that into what used to
be hunting magic is their own business, but if you're going to identify
with a hero, that hero sometimes lives out the abuse that you've been
promised for sticking to your principles. Whatever any of us has been
threatened with in retaliation for our insistence on justice or truth or
kindness or just common sense, we feel much better when Robert (chained
to a wall shirtless and bleeding) or Robin (writhing in incoherent
fevered agony) lives it out for us and emerges with self intact. May
none of us ever be put to that test. May we all trust that we would pass
with flying colors!
At any rate, I agree that the hunter/hunted Sacred King belonged to a
much older and more direct culture than ours. Still, if He died to spare
our forebears starvation, perhaps today He suffers to spare us the loss
of our integrity.
There's proof right there that He's accomplished something! Nobody
tortures the baddies because it's the goodies who are mad at them, and
goodies don't torture! Actually, I recall a couple of disgruntled
Fenrisoids doing dreadful things to Gisburne in one zine story. Must
have been a good story - I was mad at them!
Kathy - I hope that our Cousins' searchings and offerings aren't limited
to scholarly works, but also include related fiction, other tellings of
the Robin Hood story, and interesting films. Has anybody here seen The
Wicker Man? I'm not sure of how I feel about it as far as defamation
goes, but it's a fascinating story.
Say - if Richard Carpenter took piles of old hack-and-slash hero tales
and a bottomless well of Renaissance romantic mush and managed to
conjure a story appealing to a 20th century audience, was he
bastardizing a venerable tradition, or offering a bit of his heart to
revive a strong and living thing made pale and distant by neglect?
Todd - What the heck is Kineseology?
Tara - I think that the Tuatha de Danann aren't so much a pantheon of
gods as an acknowledged non-human race, like the hatsin known by the
Apache people or the Germanic kobolds. They didn't make us, and only
have dealings with us when they so choose. I might guess that the Celts
didn't have a rigid a god/human, divine/mundane division as we do, and
their archetypes served as deities or as humans as best suited the
instructional or cultural intent of the tale.
The Fairy Faith in Celtic Countries is an absorbing book, even in a
warped and water-spotted plain blue cover, and is unusual in Professor
Evans-Wentz' emphasis on Faerie as a place where dead people go, and on
Faeries as the spirits of the dead. He also spends a respectable amount
of time on the Breton inhabitants of the parallel universe, a colorful
and unique lot seldom mentioned in most Celtica.
The difference between psychic abilities (precognition, telepathy,
healing, etc.) and magic is...blurry. You can magically enhance
existing abilities or gain the temporary use of one, but an inborn
talent doesn't necessarily make a good magician. Regularly working magic
makes it easier to tap into and direct one's innate strengths, but magic
doesn't necessarily require any given talent. Even a "psychic spud" can
turn events to her benefit by singing a simple children's song or tying
a few knots. But if you've got healing hands, this shoulder...
If I hear one more comment about how Michael's legs didn't suit the
current lowest-common- denominator's shallow, homogenized conception of
male pulchritude, I'm going to tie a nice red garter around somebody's
neck. So there.
Editor's Notes
Favorite RoS Quotes:
Laura Woodswalker Todd: "What do you think you're wearing, Gisburne,
you look absurd!"
Kitty Laust-Gamarra: "I live in hope."
Hilda: "You don't look like a nun!" Anybody who didn't catch Clive
Mantle's interview in On Target 6 will want to renew their Spirit of
Sherwood membership right away, and be sure to ask for the back issue.
Clive's not just a sweet, clever hunk - he's quite the British folklore
buff. Jean West's journey through Robin Hood's England is also
fascinating, and made me feel quite homesick (despite the fact that I
haven't been to England yet, at least this time around.) And Cindy and
Laura's search for a certain earl's son turns up all kinds of strange
things!
If you want information about Weekend in Sherwood (August 7-9, 1992,
Novi, MI) be sure to contact Chris Haire and Denise Hamlin at Spirit of
Sherwood, 1276 W. Marshall, Ferndale, MI 48220. Although we can't very
well use scheduled program time or convention space for what's
essentially a religious celebration, an (extremely) unofficial circle is
in the planning stages, and you can be sure that there'll be a Cousins
party!
Anybody interested in subscribing to Moonrise, the source of Alexei
Kondratiev's article on Celtic ritual, can reach them at P.O. Box 606,
Hadley, MA 01035. They're cheap, feisty, and dedicated to keeping the
Neopagan community honest. Expect more lightning than white light.
Ponderous Reprints Department: If anyone would like to borrow a copy
(literally, a photocopy) of Robin Hood: A Collection of Poems, Songs,
and Ballads Relative to that Celebrated English Outlaw, edited by Joseph
Ritson, let me know. I must have it on your honor that you'll send it
back - it's not every day that I photocopy a 444-page book - but my only
quarrel with it is that Gordon Browne's lovely illustrations simply
didn't copy well. If you like stuff like "Now schall y wet and thow be
god, And polle het op to thy ner, So god me helpe, seyde the prowd
pottr, Thys ys bot rygzt weke ger," this one is for you. Yes, I said
"rygzt" - I didn't try to pronounce it. By the way, Mr. Ritson seems
quite convinced that Robin Hood was indeed Earl Robert Fitzooth of
Huntingdon.
Happy Spring to all! "My beloved is like a roe, or a young hart: behold,
he standeth behind our wall, he looketh forth at the windows, shewing
himself through the lattice." May your hart be Merrie, and may you
rejoice in the love of those deer to you. Blessed be!
