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HOMEBREW Digest #2465
HOMEBREW Digest #2465 Fri 18 July 1997
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Digest Janitor: janitor@hbd.org
Many thanks to the Observer & Eccentric Newspapers of
Livonia, Michigan for sponsoring the Homebrew Digest.
URL: http://www.oeonline.com
Contents:
multi-part MIME and HTML (Homebrew Digest)
Gary Knull's woes (Andy Walsh)
Problems with home grown hops (Miguel de Salas)
Dallas brewpubs (Jeffrey C Lawrence)
Hangover cures (Alan McKay)
bottle conditioning lager ("Odom, Russ")
RE: Madison, WI brewpubs ("Decker, Robin E.")
infection after botteling (Barry Finley)
Beer In Seattle ("Richard Scotty")
Yeast with Brains (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
More on Malta and a wheat beer question. ("David W. Boyd")
Any brewpubs in...? (Richard Stueven)
active fementation in secondary / dry hopping (Mike Allred)
Re: Carbonation Problems ("L. Rossi")
Re: Santa Fe, Oregon and Madison (silva)
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:41:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Homebrew Digest <hbd@brew.oeonline.com>
Subject: multi-part MIME and HTML
Greetings, Beerlings! Take me to your lager...
Recent advances in e-mail software have provided us with mailers which
automagically generate HTML from our e-mail, and send it as a multi-part
message. Ain't technology grand?!?
Unfortunately, the Digest concatenates the two, resulting in a post the
has an ASCII part (like this) followed by a duplicate post, swelled to
enormous (by character count) size with HTML formatting codes. Bad, bad,
bad! We used to see one every once in a while. Now we (the Janitors - we
were editing the HTML out of those we caught) see them all the time.
Due to the proliferation of these beasties, and the lack of the time
required to edit them, we regret that we have begun refusing such posts.
If you are a victim/culprit (depends on your point of view) of this
policy, you will receive your post back in your mailbox (assuming you
haven't tampered with your From and ReplyTo addresses...) along with a
request to edit out the HTML and to check your mailer settings. Please
don't misconstrue this as our not wanting to publish your information; we
just cannot expend the time to clean up the queue any longer and must
depend on the readership. At the same time, though, we can't allow some
to do it without offending those who have already taken measures to ensure
our high signal to noise ratio is maintained.
You can save us all a bit o' grief right now by checking your mailer
settings. Ensure that it is not generating anything but plain ol' ASCII
(multi-part MIME turned off, I guess). In particular, check to see that
there is nothing selected that will result in the generation of the evil
HTML!
On another note, we at the Digest appreciate the high level of discussion
that is occurring during the (normally dull and boring) summer months!
This is the first year in a very long time that I remember the Digest
having lay-over queues whilst the warm air blows! Cool!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:25:24 -0700
From: Andy Walsh <awalsh@crl.com.au>
Subject: Gary Knull's woes
>From Steve Alexander
>Since Gary's fermentation starts out OK, yeast growth is almost
>certainly not the issue; fermentation inhibition is. This means that
>he'd have to achieve more than 4 atm of CO2 and perhaps as high as 8atm
>of CO2 to get the serious degradation in fermentation you are proposing.
>Seems pretty far fetched to me.
For the record, I have never proposed such a thing. I have never
commented on Gary's fermentation problem. If pressed to comment, the
first thing I would check are chemical contaminants, either inherent in
the water supply, or introduced unintentionally in the brewing
procedure. The only time I have ever had such difficulties fermenting
was when I first started a yeast farm. My procedure was to wipe rubbing
alcohol (Isocol) around the bottle rims, then flame, to kill bugs. It
turned out the rubbing alcohol had non-flammable perfumes in it, that
got into the starter and seriously upset the yeast.
I would not even suggest contaminants are his problem - I'm too far away
to diagnose someone elses problems (I have trouble enough with my own!)
Andy.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 17:07:13 +1000
From: Miguel de Salas <mm_de@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Subject: Problems with home grown hops
I have posted this question in the past, but none of the comments I
recieved were much help. After trying all suggestions I still have the same
problem:
Fresh picked and home dried or homegrown dried hops of several
varieties I have been able to lay my hands on (Pride of Ringwood, Fuggle,
Goldings and Cluster) have never proven satisfactory to use. I picked the
hops when I thought they were at their prime, and dried them thoroughly (but
not over-dried) on a screen with a fan heater below. Drying took about 2
days to complete.
The problem has been the following: The dried hops (which were kept
in the freezer with my other hops) gave off a most unpleasant aroma of
cooked straw when they were immersed in boiling water, an aroma which was
present in all varieties mentioned above, but not in any commercial samples
of these.
Last time I posted this problem I recieved suggestions that the hops
might be still too wet, so I dried them more thoroughly next time (last
season) and tried again. Same problem. It was mentioned as well that the
hops might be unripe, so I waited and picked some of the hops when they were
starting to turn yellow. Same problem.
Has anyone ever had a similar problem out there? It is most
annoying, and I wouldn't use these hops in a brew because of the disgusting
flavour/aroma they leave.
If anyone has any suggestions unlike those mentioned above, please
email me or post the reply so others can learn from my mistakes.
Cheers
Miguel.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 06:17:16 -0400
From: brewmaker1@juno.com (Jeffrey C Lawrence)
Subject: Dallas brewpubs
Howdy from North Georgia!
My wife and I are going to Dallas, Texas at the end of September for her
to attend an insurance seminar(boring!). Are there any real brewpubs in
the Dallas area worth going to? I say real because I have heard rumors
that the big boys (BudMillerCoors) are buying up some more successful
micro's and brewpubs because of A)their success and B) Possible
competition/market share.
Any suggestions(with locations)? Please email wether you post to HBD or
not. That will make sure I get the messages. Please note that I do not
have access to the www; I have email only.
Thanks,
Jeff
No tag line. Yet....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 07:47:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Alan McKay <amckay@mag1.magmacom.com>
Subject: Hangover cures
I've been strictly following the V8 regiment for the past
several years, and have yet to suffer from a severe hangover,
even though I certainly am prone to it.
If I'm in for a night of above-average drinking, later on in
the evening I replace every 3rd or 4th beer with a big glass
of V8, in order to replenish vitamins.
The next morning, if for whatever reason I've forgotten the
V8 the night before, you can still beat the worst part of the
hangover by drinking a big glass of V8 and a pint of beer.
Let that do you until the hangover starts coming back
(1 to 3 hours, depending), and then have another dose.
Repeat until the hangover doesn't come back.
It's not too often that I drink so much that I have to resort
to beer the next day, but I must say that I'm really glad to
have found this cure. I'm almost ashamed to admit that I got
it from a really bad alcoholic that I knew in high school
whose "breakfast of champions" was beer **mixed** with tomato
juice. (No, I don't mix the two)
-Alan
- --
"Brewers make wort. Yeast Makes Beer."
- Dave Miller's Homebrewing Guide
http://www.magma.ca/~amckay/
http://www.magma.ca/~bodnsatz/brew/tips/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 07:49:00 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Odom, Russ" <rodom@affinity.ccare.com>
Subject: bottle conditioning lager
I'm preparing to bottle my first lager this weekend. I used Papazian's
recipe for Mongolian Bock - so far so good. He mentions to add the
standard 3/4 cup corn sugar (for 5 gal) to prime and bottle. Maybe I
missed it, but at what temperature should I keep the bottles to obtain
proper carbonation? I used a quality lager yeast from a local
microbrewery and kept my primary at 55F for one week, then in the
secondary for 6 weeks at 46F. Any input would be appreciated - private
email is ok.
TIA.
Russ Odom
Falls Church, VA
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 9:00:00 -0500
From: "Decker, Robin E." <robind@rmtgvl.rmtinc.com>
Subject: RE: Madison, WI brewpubs
>>>I'll be in Madison, Wi, next week. Does anyone know of any brewpubs in
the area that are worth a visit? Also, are the tours of the big brewerys
in Milwaukee worth the drive? Thanks.
Brian Amick<<<
Brian,
I visited the Great Dane in downtown Madison the first week of June.
Wonderful!! They have 12-15 beers at all times, which all hit their
styles. (Not the usual variations on a theme brewing technique) The
barleywine was terrific. They have a great sampler package, you choose the
number of samples & which beers you want to try for a great price. The food
was also superb, and the atmosphere was great (go for patio seating). Since
its near the University, its casual, upbeat and affordable.
Enjoy!
Goldings
visit our web page @ www.biermeisters.com for premium recipe kits!
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:48:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Barry Finley <bfinley@arches.uga.edu>
Subject: infection after botteling
I have a very brief question so I'll get right to it.
Is it possible for and infection to set up in the bottle after the brew
has been in the bottle for several (5-6) months?
I found about 10 bottles of a red ale that I made quite some time ago and
I noticed that there was a white substance floating on top of the ale,
but not growing on the neck of the bottle. There were no signs of
infection when I drank this ale (when I thought I had drank all of it).
So why is there now a foreign substance in these bottles that I happened
to stumble across. All bottles and caps were sterilized prior to
botteling, so does this mean that the infection could have been in the
beer from day one but did not show up until just now? Should I still drink
this beer or should I dump out these few bottles. After all, it's not like
I would be dumping out an entire batch!
Thanks for your,
*************************
Barry C. Finley
College of Education
The University of Georgia
*************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 07:49:26 -0600
From: "Richard Scotty"<rscotty@uswest.com>
Subject: Beer In Seattle
George - I had to send this to the digest as your mail keeps bouncing.
Having lived in the great northwest for a dozen years or so, I have a
couple of not-to-be-missed spots for you in Seattle. Be sure to make it to
the Redhook Brewery on Phinney street. This is the original Redhook brewery.
There is a larger production facility out in Woodinville, but I've never been
there. They have a web site (www.redhook.com) that gives info, tour times,
etc. I've always wanted to do the Beer Enthusiasts tour, but have never been
there at the appropriate time.
The Redhook brewpub (called the Trolleyman) usually has some of their
"blueline" beers. These are basically brewers experiments or diversions to
keep the brewer's interests. They aren't available elsewhere. If they prove
to be popular enough, they are put into production. This is how Ryehook came
about as well as their coffee stout.
Don't miss this place.
Next on the list is The Pike Street Brewery. This is located in lower
downtown, near the Pike Street Market (worth a visit in its own right). I've
only been there once, but they do have a remarkable Pale there. Pike Street
is, as far as I know, the only brewery in Seattle that practices cask
conditioning. Well worth the trip
You'll need to eat while you're there. Food in Seattle is fairly expensive
and it is fairly difficult to find a bad restaurant. Some suggestions for
your consideration:
Seafood: Cutter's (best salmon in town), Ivar's (an institution), Hyram's on
the Locks, Ray's Boat House.
Beef: The Metropolitan Grill - best beef I've ever had anywhere.
Pizza: The Northlake Tavern (some micros available)
Enjoy! - I wish I was going with you.
Rich Scotty
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 10:34:56 -0400
From: Greg.Moore@East.Sun.COM (Greg Moore - SMCC BOS Hardware Engineering)
Subject: Yeast with Brains
Trying my first lager (finally got the fridge with thermostat)
I'm doing a dunkle using wyeast 2206 (bavarian lager).
I used two smak-paks, and made two 1/2 gallon starters. The starters
worked flawlessly. (why I used two is a long story...)
This was also the first time I used irish moss in my boil (15 minutes).
Now the primary has a substance floating on top that can be best
described as looking like brain matter. The beer has been in the
primary for about 11 days now. Airlock is still active. Temp is
at 48 degrees F.
In preperation for racking, I agitated the carboy to try to get the
brain to sink. Pieces of it did, but most stayed right on top.
15 hours after agitation, I can see some pieces of "brain" floating
in the middle of the beer also.
Is this normal? Is this something the irish moss helped make, since
I didn't see this in the starter? (The starter SG was much lower
than the dunkle wort)
Please, someone tell me not to worry and my dunkle will turn out ok!
-=Greg
gmoore@wacko.east.sun.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:06:24 -0500
From: "David W. Boyd" <dave_boyd@sterling.com>
Subject: More on Malta and a wheat beer question.
Greetings Beelings:
After reading about Malta in this forum, I decided I had to try some on
a recent trip to Caracas. In short I was not impressed. It basically
tasted
like force carbonated wort. The one I had I could not even finish as it
was
simply way too sweet and syrpy. I could not detect any hop presence at
all.
Any that was there was completely overwelmed by the sweetness. I often
sample
my unfermented wort at home after taking a hydrometer reading and have
no trouble
drinking it. The malta I had gave me a very sour upset stomach. I
brought a can
back for a friend so we will see what he says about it.
As a side note Polar (what appears to be the Budweiser of Venezuela) is
not a bad beer. I would put it in the same category as some of the
better
Micholob (sic) products only better. You could actually taste some
hops in
the brew. If you get out away from the main hotel (the Hilton in my
case) I
was suprised at how cheap beer was. Several places I had Polar for less
than
a dollar (380 Bolivaries).
If you do get to Caracus take a side trip up to Colonia Tovar. This
is a german village up in the mountains about an hour and half from
Caracas.
If you get there stop by one of the many bars and order a Cerveres Tovar
(I know
I didn't spell that right). That is the brand name of a beer they
import specially
from Germany. They advertise a Pilsner and a Weizen. The pilsner was
excellant but
actually tasted more malty (like a boch) than I remember most German
pilsners. The
wheat was simply perfect (Oh to brew a wheat like that).
One question I have is when they served the wheat in addition to the
normal lemon slice they put some dry rice in the glass. I had never
seen this
before, is anyone else familiar with the practice and it's purpose?
Lorena Barquin Sanchez wrote:
> Bittering hops are used. Breweries use the same types of hops they use in
> their Lager beers. I was not told exactly how much bittering units, but
> you should hardly be able to appreciate it. The brewmaster of the brewery I
> talked to uses Cluster hops in pellet form.
>
> Well, that is how Malta is made. Now I am curious about the taste of Malta
> if only malts are used. Perhaps my next batch will be a Malta. I will
> inform.
- --
David W. Boyd Principle Engineer
E-MAIL: Dave_Boyd@Sterling.COM Sterling Software ITD
Phone: (402) 291-8300 1404 Ft. Crook Rd. South
Fax: (402) 291-2720 Bellevue, NE. 68005-2969
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:14:18 -1000
From: Richard Stueven <gak@molokaibrewing.com>
Subject: Any brewpubs in...?
Aloha!
Noticing quite a few RFPs (Requests for Pubs) in HBD #2464,
I thought I might make a quick plug for my Regional Brewery
Guides at Beer Is My Life: http://beerismylife.com
There you'll find the names and addresses of almost 4000
breweries world-wide, with separate indices for each of
the US States and Canadian Provinces, sorted by postal code.
Here are a few examples from HBD #2464:
Santa Fe: http://beerismylife.com/brewpubs/us/nm/index.htm
Portland: http://beerismylife.com/brewpubs/us/or/index.htm
Seattle: http://beerismylife.com/brewpubs/us/wa/index.htm
Madison: http://beerismylife.com/brewpubs/us/wi/index.htm
St.Louis: http://beerismylife.com/brewpubs/us/mo/index.htm
Anyway, you get the idea.
have fun
gak
- --
Richard Stueven gak@beerismylife.com http://www.aloha.net/~gak
The Moloka`i Brewing Company http://molokaibrewing.com
Beer Is My Life! http://beerismylife.com
Breweries On The Web http://www.aloha.net/~gak/beer/brewwww.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 12:50:59 -0600
From: Mike Allred <mballred@xmission.com>
Subject: active fementation in secondary / dry hopping
Just recently I have developed a problem in my process. My last 3 brews
have had the same problem. One was an extract and the other two where single
step infussion mashes. All three batches SG where in the 1.055-1.060 range
and I have used 1028 and 1056 yeast from slants with very active 1.040 1/2
gallon starters. All three used about 85% pale malt (or extract) and about
15% specialty grains. Ok, the problem is that I have active fermentation in
the primary (in carboys with full foam in my blow off tube) that have
started in the 10-12 hour range. The primary goes for about 10 days and I
rack to my secondary, at this time I'm still (even with the primary rocking
and rolling) getting gravities to my seconday of about 1.035. When I rack
to the seconday time it stops foaming almost completely. Then after about 5
days I think that its just fermenting very slowly (very little movement in
the airlock), so I add about 2 oz of hop pellets. Then damn, its off again
so fast that I have to put the blow off tube back on. The finished beer
tastes great (I do know what a wild yeast ferment tastes like and this
doesn't seem to be one) with FG of about 1.008. I ferment in a fridge at 64
deg f. The whole process is taking me about 5 weeks before I can bottle.
What is going on?
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 18:15:09 -0700
From: "L. Rossi" <wetpetz@oberon.ark.com>
Subject: Re: Carbonation Problems
In HBD 2464, Red Wheeler writes;
>>Most of the bottles of a batch of ESB were normal but about every fifth
bottle was almost uncarbonated. When opened there was no sound of escaping
gas and very few bubbles when poured. The beer tasted okay,...<< "CLIP"
I believe your problem will be with the caps. You could check to make
sure that they are tight by twisting the cap. If it moves fairly easily
and is not carbonated you need to review your capping procedure. I've had
a couple bottles do this to me and I now make sure that I double press the
caps with my bench capper giving the bottle a half turn between presses to
be sure I get a tight seal.
By chance are you using twist off bottles? There are thin metal caps
available for these to get a better seal around the threads but I have
still found every now and then I get a bad bottle, (flat).
It is unlikely that it is anything else if every bottle has had the same
treatments, temperatures etc. How long have the bottles been left to
condition? If it is less than a week and the flat brew tastes sweeter then
it may just be that they need to sit longer. (But I doubt it).
(P.S) I always give the priming sugar a little stir after racking the beer
into the bottling bucket to ensure a good mix. Just don't splash and
you'll be okay.
Good Luck,
Layne Rossi
wetpetz@oberon.ark.com
Campbell River, BC
***********************************************************
To try and fail is better than
failing because we didn't try!
***********************************************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:21:04 -0700
From: silva <silva@realbeer.com>
Subject: Re: Santa Fe, Oregon and Madison
in response to the following posts:
>Will be going to Santa Fe in October and would like info on BrewPub,
>MicroBrew and any homebrew shops in the area.
>Email any info or post here.
>Thanks
>SRJ
Check out Tom Ciccateri's comprehensive New Mexico Virtual Brew Pub
(complete with Roswell-influenced pen-name) for lists of places, ratings,
beers on taps and reviews.
It's at http://www.realbeer.com/nmvbp/
and has everything you're looking for.
>From personal experience I can highly recommend Rio Grande Brewing Co. in
Albuquerque -- one of the world's best Vienna Lagers when they brew it --
and Wolf Canyon in Santa Fe where Brad Krause has been brewing some great
real ales/cask conditioned beers drawn from racks of firkins. Also worth
visiting is Cabazon, Santa Fe and 2nd Street breweries and you'll see a
trend for NM, almost all of the breweries are frankenstein breweries for
scaling up award-winning homebrew recipes.
A side babble about Vienna Lagers: we just had the privilege of hosting
Conrad Siedel, the Austrian-based beer writer, who says that the style is
no longer brewed there. Conrad said that a recent attempt by a Vienna
brewer to re-create a beer in that style fell short and he recommended that
the brewers head to Waterloo Brewing company in Austin, TX to see an
excellent interpretation
.
>------------------------------
> I'll be in Portland, OR, for the brewers festival next weekend. In
> the days following the festival, I'll be looking for some beer in both
> Portland and Seattle. Any suggestions?
> Have fun!
> George De Piro (Nyack, NY)
Everything you want to know is at Don Schiedt's Northwest beer page at:
http://www.teleport.com/~dgs1300/
Surf the links as well for more.
>------------------------------
>
>I'll be in Madison, Wi, next week. Does anyone know of any brewpubs in
>the area that are worth a visit? Also, are the tours of the big brewerys
>in Milwaukee worth the drive? Thanks.
>Brian Amick
>Dickens Beverage Co.---Coming this fall...Dickens Cider!!!
Check out http://www.creamcitysuds.com/ for all the regional info.
Here are my personal notes:
Wisconsin deservedly won more medals at the last GABF per capita than any
other state and more than the entire east coast combined (but enough of
that sore point). The are brewing great beers there, and Madison is part of
that. I highly recommend making the drive down to New Glarus to meet with
Deb and Dan Carey. Your friends will kill for that case of Belgian Cherry
you should bring back with you.
If you can make it up to Milwuakee, make sure you visit Lake Front,
Sprecher, the flood-damaged but strong-spirited Wisconsin Brewing Company.
If you can make it a couple of days earlier, you can actually support them.
To help keep the brewery "afloat," several Wisconsin businesses, including
Hector's, Lakefront Brewing, Heaven City Restaurant, Leff's Tavern and
Sprecher Brewing, are donating food and beer for "FloodFest `97." The
fund raiser will be held July 19th from 4-11 p.m., in the parking lot
behind WBC at 63rd & State Street in Wauwatosa. If you can't go, but
would like to help out with a donation to help keep these folks in business
(donate a keg of beer for the FloodFest), contact Mark May or Juliet
Kersten at (414) 443-9278.
In the big brewing ranks, there are, of course, tours to Miller. More along
the specialty beer fun is the trip to Leinenkugels' brewery in Milwaukee at
the old Blatz plant.
>------------------------------
FOR ALL BREWS TRAVEL INQUIRIES:
You can search for breweries and brewpubs in any area you're headed to on
The Real Beer Page at http://www.realbeer.com -- just enter any area or zip
code, city or state in the brewtour search form on the homepage. Once you
find places, you can search the huge library for more information on any
subject by using the library search window in the left hand navigation bar
in your brewtour results.
You can also find an AWESOME collection of reviews and a similar brewery
tour search feature from the webfarious gak at:
http://www.beerismylife.com
You won't believe how cool this resource is. As gak would say, "Have fun!"
Cheers!
Mark Silva
You won't believe what some guys get to do for a living.
Publishers of: Real Beer Inc.
The Real Beer Page 2339 Third Street, Suite 23
http://www.realbeer.com S.F., CA 94107
The ProBrewer Page 415.522.1516 - voice
http://www.probrewer.com 415.522.1535 - fax
BEERWeek realbeer@realbeer.com
http://www.beerweek.com Internet Publishers &
RBPMail Consultants
rbpmail-request@realbeer.com
------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #2465, 07/18/97
*************************************
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