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HOMEBREW Digest #2181
This file received at Hops.Stanford.EDU 1996/09/10 PDT
Homebrew Digest Tuesday, 10 September 1996 Number 2181
FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Shawn Steele, Digest Janitor
Thanks to Rob Gardner for making the digest happen!
Contents:
ATTENTION! ((Shawn Steele))
Re: Spamming ((Shawn Steele))
Re: Fruit beer too sweet (Don Trotter)
Re: Yeast not getting older, getting better (Don Trotter)
hangovers/Beer for Dummies (Peter Ensminger)
Flavored fruit beers recipes, hop conservation and bittering herbs. (Jorge Blasig - IQ)
Kettle Caramelization/RIMS Controllers (Steve Gray)
SPAMM ((LaBorde, Ronald))
Re: Calculating CO2 saturation levels (Alan Edwards)
Domenick's Anti-SPAM suggestion: AYE ("Dave Draper")
grain crush/saccharification rest (M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac))
20lb co2 Cylinder ((Kevin O'Connor))
Advertising on HBD (Miguel de Salas)
bad beer contest (Eugene Sonn)
Thomas Hardy's Ale ("Kevin A. Kutskill")
Re:Channeling (Kelly Jones)
SPAMMERS (WattsBrew@aol.com)
Bottling Mead ((DON CHASE))
Hangovers/Bees ((A. J. deLange))
Brew Pubs Ect. (Komusubi@aol.com)
Insects in beer (John Wilkinson)
Canadian Beer ((Ron Scammell))
Re: Channelling vs. Sparge Flow Rate ((John A DeCarlo))
Mini Kegs (Mark Pfortmiller)
Lager and pils fermenting temps ("Braam Greyling")
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----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:30:05 -0600
Subject: ATTENTION!
It appears that subscribers to the Homebrew Digest are dropping like
flies. I'm not sure why this is, but it appears to be due to network
problems, such as "User Unknown" and "Host Unknown" and "Could Not
Connect" problems. It SEEMS like people are computers are vanishing or
changing addresses, but I have a hard time believing the numbers I'm
seeing right now.
If you do happen to be unsubscribed or suddenly stop receiving the
digest without cause, please let me know so I can take corrective
action if needed.
- - shawn
Postmaster@aob.org
Digest Janitor
------------------------------
From: shawn@aob.org (Shawn Steele)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:36:54 -0600
Subject: Re: Spamming
#1: If people call for votes to my personal mailbox, I will not be able
to respond. First off, there are around 3600 members of the HBD.
#2: Thanks for letting me know your concerns. As you would expect,
some people think that restricting the HBD is a good idea, others think
its a lousy idea.
#3: Spammers to the HBD due get a note from me and their system
administrator is informed. In most of those cases, they lose are
warned and may lose their accounts. Spamming is not taken lightly
ANYWHERE on the internet.
#4: Some people use the HBD from different e-mail addresses, their
addresses change, their mail server changes and other such stuff. If
only 1% of HBDers have such things happen to their e-mail addresses,
they would be unable to use the HBD and I would get more than 1
complaint a day about those problems. Realistically addresses change
more than that.
#5: The HBD will not change right now, but that policy is always open
for reconsideration if it gets too bad.
- - shawn
Postmaster@aob.org
Digest Janitor
------------------------------
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:28:12 -0500
Subject: Re: Fruit beer too sweet
Funny. I just did a 85% wheat a few weeks ago with OG=1.064. I added
fruit juice after steeping berries at 170F for 30 min with Pectin, and
added 2 quarts of sweet strained berry juice to two secondary
fermentations. One with 2 lbs cherries juice, the other with 2.4 lbs
blueberries juice. Both carboys were blowing off within 5 minutes, and
I just kegged the results with FG=1.010 (cherry), FG=1.008
(blueberry). Oh yea, I used Wyeast 1056 too.
Better luck next time Bill.
don
------------------------------
From: Don Trotter <dtrotter@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:39:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Yeast not getting older, getting better
Yep, you're essentially correct Eugene. This will work, but you have
to keep in mind that yeast mutates. I've repitched primary and
secondary yeast with great success. I have also fed starters for
months, and pitched half of the slurry every time. You can do this for
some time, but it can turn on you.
don
------------------------------
From: Peter Ensminger <ensmingr@npac.syr.edu>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 16:45:46 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: hangovers/Beer for Dummies
Chris Pertschi asks about the cause of hangovers.
I'm not sure if it is generally true that Canadian beer is less likely to
cause hangovers than American beer. Nor am I sure WHY this should be the
case. His hunch that preservatives are responsible for hangovers seems
like a good (in that it is testable) hypothesis. But do American beers
really have more or different preservatives than Canadian beers?
On the other hand, my understanding is that accumulation of acetaldehyde
causes many of the symptoms of hangover. Basically, the two key
biochemical reactions are:
1 2
ethanol -----> acetaldehyde -----> acetate
Reaction 1 is promoted by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase and reaction 2
is promoted by the enzyme aldehyde dehydogenase. These reactions occur
primarily in the liver, require NAD, and produce NADH. Apparently, the
supply of NAD often limits the overall reaction rate and its shortage can
lead to accumulation of acetaldehyde. Interestingly, some ethnic groups
accumulate significantly more acetaldehyde after drinking than others.
Acetaldehyde has also been implicated as the cause of Fetal Alcohol
Syndrome.
My hunch is that American and Canadian beers are about equally likely to
cause hangovers. Perhaps because Chris was on vacation and was in such a
good mood that he simply didn't notice the effects of accumulated
acetaldehyde. Mood can definitely influence the perception of
intoxication by alcohol and other drugs, so why not the perception of
hangovers?
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------
On another topic, I recently saw the book BEER FOR DUMMIES in my local
bookstore. I would be interested in hearing some opinions about this new
book. It seemed to me to be pretty good, but I only had time for a 5
minute perusal.
Cheerio!
Peter A. Ensminger tel: 315-478-6024
256 Greenwood Place email: ensmingr@npac.syr.edu
Syracuse, NY 13210 URL: www.npac.syr.edu/users/ensmingr/
U.S.A.
------------------------------
From: Jorge Blasig - IQ <gisalb@elmer.fing.edu.uy>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:52:22 -0300 (UY)
Subject: Flavored fruit beers recipes, hop conservation and bittering herbs.
Dear friends,
I am preparing my first batch of homebrew. I need a fruit flavored beer
recipe as a start. I would appreciate your sending me what you have.
I have found some hops: brewers gold and cascade. It is not too much but
enough for several batchs. I need some information on hop conservation. I
would also appreciate your sending me any suggestion about other
bittering herbs that I could use to prepare my first batch.
I also have a malt extract for baking bread. It contains 45%-55% maltose,
20% dextrins, 5-6% proteins and density 80-83 Brix. I could also find a
pale ale malt. I would appreciate a recipe to use this kind of
ingredients.
Thanks,
Jorge Blasig
------------------------------
From: Steve Gray <sgray@sssc.slg.eds.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 13:57:38 -0700
Subject: Kettle Caramelization/RIMS Controllers
I am going to attempt a Scotch ale this weekend and would like any =
information on techniques used to 'caramelize' in the kettle. I seem to =
remember reading somewhere that sparging into a warm/hot brew kettle may =
produce the desired affect. This seems a little dangerous to me in that =
it may cause scorching for a 1+ hour sparge. Is caramelization just a =
controlled scorch?=20
_______________________________________________
I hope in the near future to evolve my current 10gal Gott mash/lauter =
system into a pseudo RIMS system. I've read the special issue Zymurgy =
on gadgets, but I would rather not construct my own controller. What =
are good sources for controllers that can be used for these systems. =
They must exist.
_______________________________________________
Had my first (and second, and third....) authentic draft (nitrogen =
injected) Guinness at Kell's Irish Pub in Portland this weekend. =
Thought I'd died and gone to heaven, as they say. If I loved it before, =
I don't know what I'd call it now.
TIA
Steve Gray
Shingle Springs, CA
sgray@calweb.com
sgray@sssc.slg.eds.com
------------------------------
From: rlabor@lsumc.edu (LaBorde, Ronald)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:49:57 -0500
Subject: SPAMM
>From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
>The incidence of SPAMM on this digest, as it is across the whole of the
>Internet, is increasing. I remind you of the Viewmaster and VGA SPAMMs of
>last week. This problem is going to simply get worse and worse as the
Whoa, let's not get trigger happy. How many SPAMM's have we had lately.
Relax, don't worry, have a homebrew.
Ron
------------------------------
From: Alan Edwards <ale@cisco.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:29:21 -0700
Subject: Re: Calculating CO2 saturation levels
Alex Santic (alex@salley.com), in HBD #2179, wrote:
| I've just spent a few hours searching through the HBD archives and I've
| finally given up.
|
| Could have sworn I recently read about the formula for calculating the
| volume saturation level of CO2 in wort according to temperature (and
| pressure?). I'm refining an Excel brewing worksheet in which I've
| included a priming calculator. Currently it does a lookup of dissolved
| CO2 volume vs. temperature using the table published in David Draper's
| noteworthy article, but it would be more elegant and interesting to
| incorporate the formula to calculate this value.
|
| Can anybody provide guidance?
Yes! (Sorry, I read the HBD very infrequently.) I posted a formula for
CO2 vs. temp vs. pressure a few years ago. (The table actually made it
into an issue of Zymurgy not too long ago.) Here it is again, paraphrased:
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Hello fellow brewmeisters,
I've come up with a formula and a table for determining what pressure to
apply to achieve a certain carbonation level. I believe that this table
is more useful compared to the other table that has appeared on the HBD
and elsewhere. It's smaller (fits easily in an 80 column window), but
contains all the needed information in a more obvious arrangement. (It
makes more sense to me to ask "what pressure do I need" rather than "what
do I get if I use this pressure"). Besides, it can do any temperature.
You can print the table out and stick it in your brewing logbook or on
the side of your kegs.
FORMULA
If you use a spreadsheet or a programmable calculator for your brewing
endeavors, this is the formula that was used to create the table:
Pressure = F(Temperature, Volume)
P = -16.6999 - 0.0101059 T + 0.00116512 T^2
+ 0.173354 T V + 4.24267 V - 0.0684226 V^2
(T units are Farenheit)
TABLE
Look at the row that corresponds to your keg temperature, and read the
number at the column corresponding to the desired carbonation level.
That number is the pressure to apply to the beer, in PSI.
PRESSURE REQUIRED FOR DESIRED CARBONATION
Volumes of CO2 desired
Temp 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.0
32F 3.5 4.4 5.4 6.3 7.3 8.2 9.2 10.1 11.0 12.0 12.9
34F 4.3 5.3 6.3 7.3 8.2 9.2 10.2 11.2 12.1 13.1 14.1
36F 5.1 6.2 7.2 8.2 9.2 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.3 15.3
38F 6.0 7.0 8.1 9.1 10.2 11.2 12.3 13.3 14.4 15.4 16.5
40F 6.8 7.9 9.0 10.1 11.2 12.3 13.4 14.4 15.5 16.6 17.7
42F 7.7 8.8 10.0 11.1 12.2 13.3 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 18.9
44F 8.6 9.7 10.9 12.1 13.2 14.4 15.5 16.7 17.8 19.0 20.1
46F 9.5 10.7 11.8 13.0 14.2 15.4 16.6 17.8 19.0 20.2 21.3
48F 10.4 11.6 12.8 14.0 15.3 16.5 17.7 18.9 20.1 21.4 22.6
50F 11.3 12.5 13.8 15.0 16.3 17.6 18.8 20.1 21.3 22.6 23.8
52F 12.2 13.5 14.8 16.1 17.3 18.6 19.9 21.2 22.5 23.8 25.1
54F 13.1 14.4 15.7 17.1 18.4 19.7 21.1 22.4 23.7 25.0 26.3
56F 14.0 15.4 16.7 18.1 19.5 20.8 22.2 23.6 24.9 26.3 27.6
58F 15.0 16.4 17.8 19.2 20.6 21.9 23.3 24.7 26.1 27.5 28.9
60F 15.9 17.3 18.8 20.2 21.6 23.1 24.5 25.9 27.4 28.8 30.2
62F 16.9 18.3 19.8 21.3 22.7 24.2 25.7 27.1 28.6 30.0 31.5
64F 17.8 19.3 20.8 22.3 23.8 25.3 26.8 28.3 29.8 31.3 32.8
66F 18.8 20.3 21.9 23.4 25.0 26.5 28.0 29.6 31.1 32.6 34.1
68F 19.8 21.4 22.9 24.5 26.1 27.6 29.2 30.8 32.4 33.9 35.5
70F 20.8 22.4 24.0 25.6 27.2 28.8 30.4 32.0 33.6 35.2 36.8
72F 21.8 23.4 25.1 26.7 28.4 30.0 31.6 33.3 34.9 36.5 38.2
74F 22.8 24.5 26.2 27.8 29.5 31.2 32.9 34.5 36.2 37.9 39.5
76F 23.8 25.5 27.2 29.0 30.7 32.4 34.1 35.8 37.5 39.2 40.9
78F 24.9 26.6 28.4 30.1 31.8 33.6 35.3 37.1 38.8 40.5 42.3
80F 25.9 27.7 29.5 31.2 33.0 34.8 36.6 38.3 40.1 41.9 43.7
PRESSURE REQUIRED FOR DESIRED CARBONATION
Volumes of CO2 desired
Temp 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5 2.6 2.7 2.8 2.9 3.0
01C 4.2 5.2 6.2 7.2 8.1 9.1 10.1 11.1 12.0 13.0 14.0
02C 5.0 6.0 7.0 8.0 9.0 10.0 11.0 12.0 13.0 14.0 15.0
03C 5.7 6.8 7.8 8.9 9.9 10.9 12.0 13.0 14.0 15.1 16.1
04C 6.5 7.6 8.6 9.7 10.8 11.9 12.9 14.0 15.1 16.1 17.2
05C 7.3 8.4 9.5 10.6 11.7 12.8 13.9 15.0 16.1 17.2 18.3
06C 8.1 9.2 10.3 11.5 12.6 13.7 14.9 16.0 17.1 18.2 19.4
07C 8.8 10.0 11.2 12.3 13.5 14.7 15.8 17.0 18.2 19.3 20.5
08C 9.6 10.8 12.0 13.2 14.4 15.6 16.8 18.0 19.2 20.4 21.6
09C 10.4 11.7 12.9 14.1 15.4 16.6 17.8 19.0 20.3 21.5 22.7
10C 11.3 12.5 13.8 15.0 16.3 17.6 18.8 20.1 21.3 22.6 23.8
11C 12.1 13.4 14.7 16.0 17.2 18.5 19.8 21.1 22.4 23.7 25.0
12C 12.9 14.2 15.6 16.9 18.2 19.5 20.8 22.1 23.5 24.8 26.1
13C 13.7 15.1 16.4 17.8 19.2 20.5 21.9 23.2 24.5 25.9 27.2
14C 14.6 16.0 17.4 18.7 20.1 21.5 22.9 24.3 25.6 27.0 28.4
15C 15.4 16.8 18.3 19.7 21.1 22.5 23.9 25.3 26.7 28.1 29.6
16C 16.3 17.7 19.2 20.6 22.1 23.5 25.0 26.4 27.8 29.3 30.7
17C 17.1 18.6 20.1 21.6 23.1 24.5 26.0 27.5 29.0 30.4 31.9
18C 18.0 19.5 21.0 22.6 24.1 25.6 27.1 28.6 30.1 31.6 33.1
19C 18.9 20.4 22.0 23.5 25.1 26.6 28.1 29.7 31.2 32.7 34.3
20C 19.8 21.4 22.9 24.5 26.1 27.6 29.2 30.8 32.4 33.9 35.5
21C 20.7 22.3 23.9 25.5 27.1 28.7 30.3 31.9 33.5 35.1 36.7
22C 21.6 23.2 24.9 26.5 28.1 29.8 31.4 33.0 34.6 36.3 37.9
23C 22.5 24.2 25.8 27.5 29.2 30.8 32.5 34.1 35.8 37.5 39.1
24C 23.4 25.1 26.8 28.5 30.2 31.9 33.6 35.3 37.0 38.7 40.3
25C 24.3 26.1 27.8 29.5 31.3 33.0 34.7 36.4 38.1 39.9 41.6
REFERENCE
Volumes of CO2:
British style beers = 2.00 - 2.40
Most other beers = 2.40 - 2.85
High-carbonation beers = 2.85 - 2.95
Have fun,
- -Alan
Alan Edwards (ale@cisco.com) H3CO.____ O CH3
Systems Administrator / / \ || |
Chile-Head / Home Brewer HO-< >-C-N-C-(CH2)4-C=C-C-CH3
Cisco Systems Inc 408-526-5283 \____/ H2 H H H H Capsaicin
------------------------------
From: "Dave Draper" <ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:51:01 +10
Subject: Domenick's Anti-SPAM suggestion: AYE
Dear Friends,
I think Domenick has summarized the problem accurately. To limit
posts to subscribers only does nothing to limit brewing input and can
only help, both on the spam front and on the brainless-idiots-just-
trying-to-stir-us-up front.
I vote a resounding AYE on the suggestion.
Cheers, Dave in Sydney
"Just what we need-- another wanker with an attitude!" ---Rob Moline
- ---
***************************************************************************
David S. Draper, Earth Sciences, Macquarie University, Sydney NSW Australia
ddraper@laurel.ocs.mq.edu.au http://audio.apana.org.au/ddraper/home.html
...I'm not from here, I just live here...
------------------------------
From: M257876@sl1001.mdc.com (bayerospace@mac)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:04 -0600
Subject: grain crush/saccharification rest
collective homebrew conscience:
dave b. wrote:
>AlK says he thinks malt should be crushed until it is ideally *all* flour
Maybe
>he has a different definition of flour than most people.
dave then went on to quote a piece of noonan's book, which mentions that
flour is undesirable, because it balls easily. i think when al wrote that the
ideal (impossible) crush was big husks and finely ground starch, he was
assuming there would be no problems in mixing the mash. this makes sense, as
the flour would be very quickly converted, and the husks would not be so
finely ground as to cause lautering/sparging problems. of course, this is
nearly impossible to achieve, thus the compromised crush we all have to deal
with.
i routinely find starch grits in my lauter tun, after the sparge is over.
this represents lost extract. if these pieces of starch had been more finely
ground, they would have been available to the enzymes to convert, and more
extract would be the result. now, i have a question:
bruce taber wrote:
>Mark Bayer states;
>> 6) extend the sacch. rest to 1.5 or 2 hours, regardless of the iodine
test .
> Why? Should the iodine test not be trusted? Is there substantially
more sugar available even after the iodine shows no color change?<snip>
excellent question, and i don't know the answer for sure. i recommended
extending the saccharification rest because i had seen that recommendation
in dave miller's books, particularly for high kilned (enzymatic) malts, and
because my own experience has led me to believe that a longer sacch. rest
improved extraction. also, a member of my homebrew club (stl brews) had
performed an overnight infusion mash (to save time/experiment), and had
gotten outstanding extraction compared with his normal brewing method. all
other variables were the same (lautering, etc.) as his usual method. we all
tasted the beer, and it was fine.
now, here's my question: is it possible that the reason a longer mash rest
gives better extraction is because the longer rest helps to break down large
starch grits (like i find in my lauter tun) better? obviously, enzyme
viability and denaturization is an issue here (not again!), but assuming
there are enzymes left after an hour and a half, are they still trying to
munch on those big starch granules and convert as much as they can when we
intervene and mash out? all the super finely ground starch (flour) gets
converted very quickly, but these larger pieces are troublesome for enzymes,
and they need more time to convert them because they don't have immediate
access like they do with the finer ground starch. correct?
this is the physical reason for decoction mashing. to break up those bigger
pieces of starch by boiling them and physically breaking them down into
much smaller pieces. this makes easier work for the enzymes.
now, why do i get a negative reaction for starch from the iodine test even
though i'm finding starch in my lauter tun? because as soon as a little
piece of starch breaks off the big starch grit, it gets converted. actually,
the enzymes are gathered round the starch grit like sharks around a whale,
tearing off pieces and converting them simultaneously. so i have basically
starch grits in a sugar solution, and there's no starch in the liquid i use
for the iodine test.
this is all conjecture, but i'm interested in feedback.
brew hard,
mark bayer
------------------------------
From: koco@lsil.com (Kevin O'Connor)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 15:02:55 -0700
Subject: 20lb co2 Cylinder
Greetings gang,
Thanks to all that responded to my request for information regarding
15.5 bl kegs. I have elected to take it back for deposit.
Another question.
I have acquired a used 20lb co2 tank with dual gauges for the paltry
fee of $30. The gauges work fine, so I believe I'm already ahead of
the game but what about the tank? I believe it was originally used in
welding and I was wondering if there is a problem using it for kegging
beer. I can't imagine any nasties living in CO2.
What do you think?
thanx,
Kevin
------------------------------
From: Miguel de Salas <mm_de@postoffice.utas.edu.au>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:39:29 -1000
Subject: Advertising on HBD
On isuue #2178 a person under the address renechar@tpts1.seed.net.tw posted
an ad about VGA cards. I don't think this is the place for such advertising.
I don't think it may even be the place for this, but I think if everyone
flamed him he might not do it again.
I for one don't agree with being sent commercials when I am expecting
homebrew related issues. Is it just me?
Cheers
Miguel
------------------------------
From: Eugene Sonn <eugene@dreamscape.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:55:28 -0400 (EDT)
Subject: bad beer contest
Some folks I know are holding a bad beer contest and I'm looking for some
help. The gist of the contest is to find the worst possible brew which
hasn't been intentionally sabotaged. Skunking the beer is not ok
according to the rules. I'm looking for some inspired comments about the
worst commercial brews available. This means the usual BudSWillerCoors
stuff just won't do it. The other catch, the beer has to be available in
upstate new york or the Philly area. I live in the former and will be
attending the competition in the latter.
Thanks in advance.....my tastebuds are already mad a me
Eugene
eugene@nova.dreamscape.com
------------------------------
From: "Kevin A. Kutskill" <75233.500@CompuServe.COM>
Date: 09 Sep 96 18:53:06 EDT
Subject: Thomas Hardy's Ale
I usually only read about stuff like this, so please allow me the indulgence
of bandwidth....
Last weekend, my wife and I were in a small town--she was shopping for
antiques, and I was grumbling about being in a town with nothing to do
except watch my wife shop (is it any wonder that statistically, men die
younger than women?). Anyhoo, wandering down an aisle, I glanced
at a shelf and saw a bottle of Thomas Hardy's Ale, one of the small,
6 ouncers, obviously old with a fading, brown label. Looking closer,
I saw that it was FULL! Looking even closer, the date on it was July,
1968. If memory serves, this was the first year the brew was made.
Price: five bucks! Acting nonchlalant at the register (trying to hide my
excitement) I plopped my five bucks down. At that point, the lady sez:
"ya know, there is another one". After picking my tongue and jaw off
the floor, I bought both of them, five bucks each.
Now for the big question:
A) are they worth anything, and if so, how much (ballpark)--in which
case I will sleep with them under my pillow for life,
or
B) seeing as though all the sources I read suggest that the ale's flavor
peaks at 25 years max, should I chill and crack those puppies
open and taste a bit of history?
again, sorry for the waste of bandwidth
Kevin A. Kutskill ("Dr. Rottguts")
Clinton Township, MI
75233.500@compuserve.com
"A homebrew a day keeps the doctor happy"
------------------------------
From: Kelly Jones <kejones@ptdcs2.intel.com>
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 16:22:42 -0700
Subject: Re:Channeling
Guy wrote:
> Well, Chuck, if you'll notice, flow through that straw is potentially a
> great deal faster than flow through the grain. The channeling issue is
> essentially formation of a preferential flow path through the grain, as you
> said. That flow path, or short cut, conducts fluid much faster than the rest
> of the grain. What is available to be extracted in that grain is extracted
> rapidly. Per unit time, a higher volume will pass through that short cut.
> This volume may have a lower gravity because it does not approach chemical
> equilibrium with the surrounding grain as well as in the rest of the bed. It
> may have a similar gravity intially because of leakage from the surrounding
> bed,
OK, so let's put a valve on the outlet of the tun. We can control the flow to
be whatever we want, even to the point of maiking the lauter last longer than
it would have been in a non-channeling bed. My contention is, the extraction
will still be poor. Since a greater proportion of water is passing through the
channels, a lesser proportion passes through the rest of the bed, thus
resulting in worse extraction, despite the extended contact time.
If channeling is not directly observable as a decrease in extraction, then it
is hardly a problem. In fact, the shortened lauter time would be a bonus.
Kelly
Hillsboro, OR
------------------------------
From: WattsBrew@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 19:34:13 -0400
Subject: SPAMMERS
Domenic says "Restrict posts to subscribers only."
I absolutely agree. The incidence of crap in our lives increases every day
and I for one don't enjoy having to weed out all the junk to get to the good
stuff. The HBD should be for serious and light-hearted discussion of beer
and brewing and not a forum for a personal agenda .And don't send me any crap
about free speech and rights of individuals. If someone doesn't have the
common sense and control to restrict their activity to proper forums, then
they must have it restricted for them. I don't see the problem with
subscribing if you want to post. It really is so simple, even I was able to
do it.
It has been very hard not to yell about this up to this point, so just let me
get it out of my system now. AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank you for your time, and now back to my beer.
Brewing beer in Lancaster, NY - Bill Watt
------------------------------
From: wchase@alpha.utampa.edu (DON CHASE)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:47:19 -0400
Subject: Bottling Mead
I am getting ready to bottle a rather sweet blueberry mead (melomel for you
technical beergeeks :-) ). I was hoping to bottle 2gal without priming sugar.
I tried this with a sample bottle and it came out almost like a sweet wine.
I wanted to bottle another 2gal WITH sugar to carbonate. Any suggestions
how much sugar and nutrient I'll need? My SG was about .998, but may have
dropped slightly. The other 1gal I wanted to add nutrient to and let it
ferment out a bit more before I bottle it. Here again, how much do I use?
Please answer privately, and try to keep the technical jargon to a minimum.
I must have been a chef in a past life, because I don't worry too much about
exact measurements. (Except when a bottle may explode as a result.) All this
recent talk about sparging times and rates has my poor head swimming, or maybe
that's the meade. :-)
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Chase | Hombrewing : the only sport open exclusively
Objectivist...Businessman... | to anal-retentive alcoholics.
Homebrewer. | Relax...have a homebrew.
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
From: ajdel@interramp.com (A. J. deLange)
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 01:40:07 -0500
Subject: Hangovers/Bees
Chris Pertschi asks "What is it in U.S. mass produced 'brews' that often
destroys the following morning...?
I certainly have no scientific proof but my own empirical observations have
led me to believe that it is what isn't in mass produced beer, namely
yeast, that leads to the problems. I have found that homebrew and German
beers definitely are less damaging than centrifuged and/or filtered mega
brews. I had an evening with commercial Hefe Weizen (Paulaner) in Germany a
couple of weeks ago that left me amazed at how well I felt the next AM
considering the quantity consumed and the jet lag factor. I have also noted
over there that an evening with the Pils leads to a much worse morining
than an evening with Hefe Weizen and Eric Warner alludes to this in his
monograph on wheat beer. Conversely, my own Pils, which is not filtered or
centrifuged is more forgiving than German commercial Pils, even "vom Fass".
I suppose I should contrast Hefe Weizen with Crystal - further rearch - all
in the interests of science of course.
One often sees the explanation that yeast contain vitamin B and that
vitamin B helps the body to metabolize alcohol. This may indeed be the case
but I have nothing at hand to support this notion except the observation
that several of the B vitamins are intimately involved in the metabolism of
sugars and that it is the upset of this metabolism by excess NADH that
leads to many of the problems of hangover.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
John Varady uses "bee" and "yellowjacket" without apparent distinction.
Bees (Apis) are our friends as they are a direct source of fermentables
(and an indirect source of many comestibles). Yellow jackets (Vespula),
conversely, are pretty worthless. Both are attracted to sugar. In fact the
@#%&*@ yellow jackets rob bee hives.
A.J. deLange Numquam in dubio, saepe in errore!
ajdel@interramp.com
------------------------------
From: Komusubi@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 17:36:27 -0400
Subject: Brew Pubs Ect.
Hello All,
I would like to know if anybody has any info on brew-pubs and micro-breweries
in Kingston and Toronto Canada. I will be going to bith places for about a
few.
Thanks , Private E-mail Ok.
SRJ
------------------------------
From: John Wilkinson <jwilkins@imtn.tpd.dsccc.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 21:04:47 -0500
Subject: Insects in beer
Robert Ray spoke of a bee diving into his brew pot and John Varady of
several going to their deaths in his hot mash.
A while back I was aerating my cooled wort by pouring back and forth
between buckets and had a problem with flies trying to land on the buckets.
I thought I kept the flies shooed away but saw a small one in the wort in one
of my buckets. I didn't have a sanitized spoon handy so I grabbed a spoon
from my brewing equipment box and scooped the fly out. I figured whatever
might be on that spoon couldn't be any worse than what was on the fly.
Especially since I brew in my shop building which has numerous fresh cow
patties outside. I went ahead and pitched the yeast and hoped for the best.
The beer turned out fine, although I didn't mention the incident to anyone
who drank it.
I have also picked the occasional wasp or beetle out of my mash. I don't
know how they got there but they never left any noticeable flavors behind.
I don't remember any of my beers having a detectable sting.
I guess the beer gods have been kind to me.
John Wilkinson - Grapevine, Texas
------------------------------
From: rscom@travel-net.com (Ron Scammell)
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 1996 23:08:08 -0400
Subject: Canadian Beer
Re: Chris Pertschi's rave review of Canadian beers in Monday's digest.
You're right Chris -- Canadian brew is hangover free -- a special formula
handed down from the earliest settlers.
Seriously, hope you had the chance to try a Hart beer, one of the best
microbrewery beers north of the 49th parallel. At the moment it's available
just in Ontario but there are plans I'm told to distribute in the U.S.
You might be interested in reading some entertaining reviews of Canadian
beers which can be found on the Hart Brewery web site at
http://www.hartcanada.com.
Cheers,
Ron Scammell
Ottawa, Canada
------------------------------
From: jdecarlo@juno.com (John A DeCarlo)
Date: Mon, 09 Sep 1996 23:14:35 EDT
Subject: Re: Channelling vs. Sparge Flow Rate
Guy Gregory writes:
>Flow (volume per unit time) will always reflect channelling.
Let me see if I can summarize the agreement here.
1) Sparge water will flow faster naturally if there is channelling than
if there isn't.
2) Sparge water going through a channel extracts less from the total
grain bed.
3) The effects of channelling can be ameliorated somewhat by slowing down
the flow rate (would increase osmosis).
I think Guy is forgetting that most people's homebrew setups can adjust
the flow rate, such as by closing the spigot more, or changing the
distance between the two end-points of a siphon.
In this case, if you simply sparge longer by closing the outlet, it
should help extraction, but it isn't clear that it would be enough or
even significant.
The previous example of a straw or tube holding the water going through
the grain bed shows this issue. Even if you take three days to let the
water go through the tube, it won't extract any more than if you let it
take three minutes.
So, I think we all agree that the best approach to channelling is to
eliminate the channels somehow. And we all agree that taking longer to
sparge will help. It may help a lot with some geometries and flow rates
(like if you sparge 6 gallons in 10 minutes, slowing down to an hour will
clearly make a big difference), or it may help just a little (like going
from one hour to 90 minutes and still having sweet malt at the edges of
the lauter tun).
If I missed some important points, please point them out.
Thanks.
John DeCarlo, jdecarlo@juno.com, Arlington, VA
------------------------------
From: Mark Pfortmiller <MPFORTMILLER@PRINTPACK.COM>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 01:11:56 -0400
Subject: Mini Kegs
How would you recommend in the cleaning, sterilization of mini kegs?
Also how would you dry them?
Thanx in advance
------------------------------
From: "Braam Greyling" <acg@knersus.nanoteq.co.za>
Date: Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:02:39 +200
Subject: Lager and pils fermenting temps
Hi,
I was checking my fridge for a few days now. At a certain setting the
temperature varies from 46.5 to 53.6 degrees fahrenheit.
I was wondering if I could make a lager in this fridge without having
to build a temperature controller.
I am planning to use Wyeast Czech pils for the pils and a
wyeast lager yeast for the lager.
What do you think ? Will it be o.k. or is the temp variation too big?
thanks a lot
Braam Greyling I.C. Design Engineer
Nanoteq (Pty) Ltd
tel. +27 (12) 665-1338 fax +27 (12) 665-1343
- ---- 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case ----
- ---- coincidence ????? ----
------------------------------
End of Homebrew Digest #2181
****************************
