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Cider Digest #1534
Subject: Cider Digest #1534, 19 October 2009
From: cider-request@talisman.com
Cider Digest #1534 19 October 2009
Cider and Perry Discussion Forum
Contents:
Bright cider, but not keeved ("Charles McGonegal")
PME (Klercidre) (Claude Jolicoeur)
Cider Varietals near Toronto ("Jonathan Caners")
oak barrel (Ed Hepp)
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Digest Janitor: Dick Dunn
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Subject: Bright cider, but not keeved
From: "Charles McGonegal" <cpm@appletrue.com>
Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:45:04 -0500
I'm not set up at AeppelTreow to properly monitor and handle a keeve - but
I've been trying a few different things over the last couple of years to
slow fermentations without refrigeration. This year, I've seen a couple of
things that might be of interest to Digesters.
First, I've tried something that for lack of a better description, I'll call
an inverted keeve - sending the particulate load to the bottom of the
container, rather than the top. I tried this on two drums of straight
English and French bittersweet juice. (Oh, alright - not 100% - there was
some Hewes in there, too.) I added some Rapidase Vino Super and left it in
the apple cooler for a week. When I racked off the top, it was gorgeously
clear. I only lost 4 gallons out of about 110 to sediment. I tried
filtering this further, but it blinded my 1 micron prefilter in less than 5
gallons. I was surprised, since it was visually clear, if not brilliant. A
picture is on the winery's facebook page.
One drum of this bright cider I pitched with ProElif - the encapsulated
yeast I use for champagne making. This is about the third attempt I've made
to use ProElif for primary fermentation, and I've decided that it simply
doesn't work as intended. Or perhaps as mis-intended. When used for
primary, it appears that the CO2 produced ruptures the encapsulation and
releases the yeast. Which is DV10. The escaped yeast complete the
fermentation rather quickly. The second trial I fermented with a yeast that
is dead slow anyway, and it's at 4.5% ABV after 2 weeks at about 60-65F.
Pretty slow, for me.
Now today, I fetched my perry juice from the cooler. It was pressed at the
beginning of the week, and placed in the apple cooler. I couldn't believe
my eyes when I saw it, but the perry juice had also settled to the bottom,
even without enzyme addition. I've never (_ever_) seen pear juice settle
like this before. (I have seen apple juice settle unaided, but it had been
frozen and thawed, which does something to the pectin, as evidenced by the
jelly eels that form.) This was a mix of Taynton, Thorn, Winnals, Brandy,
Normanschein, Barnet, Barland. I also had 3 pails of what came from
Corvallis listed as Red Pear (but I have my doubts), and it did NOT settle.
More like the Bosc, Comice and Barlett I've worked with before.
I did not do a control sample this year, to see if the bottom settled ciders
ferment more slowly that an unsettled cider. I guess there's always next
year.
Charles
AEppelTreow Winery
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Subject: PME (Klercidre)
From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:53:58 -0400
In Cider Digest #1532, 3 October 2009, I wrote:
>Subject: Re: PME
>From: Claude Jolicoeur <cjoli@gmc.ulaval.ca>
>Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2009 20:12:44 -0400
>There is a French company that does exactly what you suggest, selling a kit
>consisting of PME and calcium salt for 1000 litres of juice for about 15
>euros. The name is Klercidre. However, they don't seem to answer emails (I
>have sent 2 already, in French). I was told that they do answer the phone
>however... If we could finally contact them, we would still have to arrange
>to have the kit shipped across the ocean.
I finally got an answer from the people manufacturing the Klercidre kits.
The name of the company is Standa and they are in Caen, Normandy.
The kits are as follow:
- - Klercidre 5, for 500 to 700 litres (approx 130 US gals) of juice,
contains 20 ml of PME and 0.4 litre of a calcium salt solution, price 11 EUR
- - Klercidre 10, for 1000 to 1400 litres (260 gals), 40 ml of PME plus
calcium salt, for 15.70 EUR
- - Klercidre 50, for 5000 to 7000 litres, 200 ml of PME plus calcium salt,
for 56.70 EUR
- - Klercidre 100, for 10000 to 14000 litres, 400 ml of PME plus calcium
salt, for 88.91 EUR
However, when I wanted to order a Klercidre 5 kit, they had an additional
charge of 5 EUR for an order below 50 EUR, plus 52.90 EUR for shipping to
Quebec! I would suppose the charge to USA would be about the same. These
shipping charges are just %$?&"/!
Anyway, if any of you would like to order some, the contact email is:
contact@standa-fr.com
Note that I wrote in French - I don't know if they read English...
Also, there is another small difficulty - they don't take payment by card
or Paypal, only cheques in EUR or bank transfer...
Claude
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Subject: Cider Varietals near Toronto
From: "Jonathan Caners" <jcaners@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 13:01:59 -0400
I'm based in Toronto and am keen to make my own cider this fall. Does anyone
have any suggestions on how one might track down some more traditional cider
apple varieties (e.g., Tremlett's Bitter, Yarlington)? I'm not fussy about
the particular type, but it would be very nice to be able to try some
higher-tannin varietals without planting my own orchard.
Jonathan Caners
Toronto
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Subject: oak barrel
From: Ed Hepp <ed.hepp@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 10:24:34 -0400
I have a oak barrel that was used for wine at one time, can it be used for
cider now? Ed
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End of Cider Digest #1534
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